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 Chain stretched too much! help!

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BadBowtie03




PostSubject: Chain stretched too much! help!    Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:16 pm

Hey everyone I'm kind of new to this whole thing... I bought my WR about 6 months ago... Not new to mechanics... But new to motorcycles. Anyways, it came with X wheels and tires and R wheels and tires... I could swap em back and forth. But I had had my dirt tires on for about 3 months. Then I just tried to swap back to my street tires. And the axel will come back far enough to hit the end of the swing arm! it wouldn't do this before and I could use the same chain length between the two different sets. Is it normal for a chain to stretch that much? Could I take one link out and be back to normal where I could use it on both sets? Or do I need two chains? they have different rear sprockets as well. Maybe I should get a bigger sprocket for my supermoto tires? Let me know what y'all think the fix is. Thanks!!
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YZEtc

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PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Tue Apr 29, 2014 8:41 pm

How much chain free play have you been running, how often do you make a chain adjustment, and how many miles on that chain?
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BadBowtie03




PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:01 pm

The chain was on it when I bought it but he said it was fairly new... So maybe 200 miles from him and then 2k miles from me. So 2200 roughly. I had been running it where there was about an 1" 1/2 of play up or down when you reach down and grab it and wiggle it up and down. I had mainly set it where it should go when I changed out the tires and wheels. But there had been a couple times where I had tightened it cause I thought it was too loose. Could of doing that kept stretching it? Therefore I made it stretch too much?
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jswr450




PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:36 pm

It is not normal for a chain to stretch a lot unless it is really worn out. Is it rusty? I would not remove a link to shorten the chain. If it has stretched that much you should just get a new chain. A high quality o ring chain will last a really long time if it's properly maintained (not allowed to rust). Also, a chain wears as your sprocket wears so steel sprockets will make a chain last longer than a softer aluminum sprocket. If you're concern about sprocket weight they have some with steel teeth and an aluminum center (not a great way to explain that, but hopefully you get what I mean). I also recommend a riveted master link instead of the clip type. A riveting tool is cheap, and I think riveted master links are more reliable (although a clip type can work great too). Change your sprockets with your chain to make them wear evenly and always use new sprocket bolts as they stretch when you torque them down and if one is tighter than the others it can put too much torque on one part of your hub and break your hub (don't ask me how I know).

2200 miles would be a really short chain life unless the chain rusted or the sprocket was made of butter. How much difference is there between the two rear sprockets?
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BadBowtie03




PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:53 pm

It did randomly have a tint of brown color to it... but, I mainly just brushed it off here and there and always kept lube on it. I didnt run it through a parts cleaner or soak it in diesel...So maybe it was my fault. I am also wondering if the wear had already started when I got it from the guy because the bike had been sitting. So maybe it was already starting to rust...i dunno. Whats your recommendation? Getting a new chain? where is the best place to buy one? This is not an o-ring chain. Should I get an o ring one instead? Thanks for the help.

Also, maybe I will post a couple pics up... the reason why I noticed that the chain was so loose is because I just went and tried to put my supermoto tires back on it...so this time around I really tried to clean the chain good. I doused it in cleaner and used rags and a wire brush to break the gunk free. I cleaned it good! then I went to put the tires on and noticed it would come all the way back now! strange.
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BadBowtie03




PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:06 am

Blue sprocket is on the X wheels. Black the dirt ones it was just running with. Now with the blue sprocket and x wheels the axle comes all the way back and hits the end of the swing arm... i hope the pics help. let me know what yall think I should do. thanks

[URL="http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif"][/URL]

[URL="http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif"][/URL]

[URL="http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif"][/URL]

[URL="http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif"][/URL]

[URL="http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif"][/URL]
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BadBowtie03




PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:07 am

actually after looking closely... that sprocket looks worn way down on the black one. The blue one looks to have way more meat on it. So the pins on the chain are probably worn down to much then right? its not stretched.. just worn? thanks and sorry im a newb.
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jswr450




PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:25 am

Yeah, that black sprocket is toast and that will ruin the chain. Buy a good o ring chain (best you can afford) and new steel sprockets and you shouldn't have to worry about chain and sprocket wear for a very long time.

You can buy them cheap through Rocky Mountain, Chaparral, motosport, and a bunch of other retailers.
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BadBowtie03




PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:40 am

So I started doing some more digging... and I took the little cover off the front sprocket. I was able to turn the big nut... BY HAND. I cant imagine that being normal at all. So thats not good... Kinda scary. Anyways... So, then I just undid the whole nut and took the little sprocket out to take a peek at it. Why would it of been loose? what the heck is going on? here are some pictures of it. Also, the chain it self looks to be in pretty good shape. What am I missing here as to why its loosened up? Is it this front sprocket being worn down? thanks guys









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GT-250

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PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:52 am

Something looks very wrong with that 2nd picture of the blue sprocket - by this i mean that the chain rollers don't appear to mesh correctly with the teeth. Also this seems to be backed up by some very unusual wear patterns on the sprocket teeth. By this i mean you can see that the wear pattern seems way to high on the tooth face. ( See how the chain rollers don't sit nice & even into the valley of the sprocket - they are riding up high.

To me it seems as though you are running mis-matched chain & sprocket sizes..... So is it just me, or is it not that obvious that the numbers listed on that blue sprocket have it as a 508 teeth size, and as far as i'm aware this bike runs a 520 size chain and sprocket set from factory.

My input would be re-new all components with correct matching sizes. These are critical components for safe operation, so for the relatively small cost i wouldn't muck around with "maybe's".

Cheers.
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BadBowtie03




PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:00 am

hmm ok thanks for the reply. The guy I bought it from had other dirt bikes and seemed to know his stuff. I think he is actually on this forum. But not a big user. Anyways, maybe its just all mismatched stuff from other bikes for some stupid reason. Guess I need to read into what gearing would be best on both wheel/tire setups... Whats your opinion there? I think he said that front sprocket was stock and the rear on the dirt tires was a 50 and the supermoto one was a 48. Also do any retailers sell a kit? like a chain and front and rear sprocket? thats a better deal to buy the whole kit? Then I would only need to buy one more rear for the other set of tires. Thanks man
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jswr450




PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:03 am

It looks like someone didn't put the front sprocket on correctly, with proper torque on the nut. Was there a washer behind the nut? There should be, I'm pretty sure.

Buy a new chain, sprockets (two rear, one front), and new sprocket bolts, and you'll be good to go. I've never heard of a 508 chain? I though it was 420, 425, 428, 520, 525, then 530, but I learn new things every day.

Good luck with fitting the new parts. You should be enjoying your bike again before you know it.
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BadBowtie03




PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:11 am

How would I determine what chain length that I need if I will be running two different rear sprockets? are chains pretty standard... basically if I look up an O-ring 520 it just needs to be the right length and there is no other spec I am missing right? for example how about this Renthal chain: http://www.amazon.com/Renthal-C291-O-Ring-520-Pitch-114-Links/dp/B000GVECCA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1398830896&sr=8-1&keywords=wr250r+chain

It has great reviews on Amazon and I have two day prime shipping. Do sprockets come with the right bolts? thanks guys
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GT-250

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PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:17 am

Yes mate you can by chain & sprocket kits. I suppose what you need to consider is what ratio will best suit your needs, then you can buy all the suitable parts. With the chain you would be best to buy a 120 link and then you can simply shorten to a length that will allow enough adjustment to suit your wheel swapping. Also there are some really good aftermarket billet alloy axle blocks that allow much more scope for wheel movement & chain adjustment due to being reversable. If you do a search on ebay there are plenty of options for these axle blocks. Also there are the chain and sprocket kits in abundance on ebay. I would highly recommend the DID VX2 PRO Series chain, X-RING. Also the Supersprox Stealth sprockets are pretty hard to beat for durability & weight. Check out the Hubsaver sprocket bolt kits - best you can get IMO.

Lastly be sure to check the chain slider for excess wear + get a new genuine front sprocket lock nut, apply never seize to the shaft splines & thread & then be sure to correctly stake both sides of the lock nut.

Cheers.
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GT-250

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PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:28 am

Yes i'm not sure if there is such a chain size as "508" either ? But in any case that part number on the blue sprocket seems to elude to such a size ? ( As most sprockets have a reference to their size class in the part numbers - which i'm sure most of you guys know this ).

Regardless of this point, it seems to me that the meshing of that chain and blue sprocket are totally wrong - just by the way the chain sits so high & that wear pattern is quite unusual as well. Do you see what i'm talking about there - does that look mis-matched to you guys as well ?

Cheers guys.
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motokid
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PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:32 am

GT-250 is right.

Best path forward is get all new sprockets and chain and start from a place YOU know is correct.






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YZEtc

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PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:22 am

Not surprised that non-sealed chain is worn - that's the down side to that type of chain.

What I do with my bikes:

*New O- or X-ring chain and new sprockets.
I use a rivet master link.

*NEW OEM Yamaha nut for the front sprocket AND the washer that goes behind it if it was not there when you took it apart.
BE SURE to stake the NEW OEM NUT to the sprocket shaft after torqueing it down.
This is covered in the Yamaha Service Manual.

*When you put it all back together, adjust the chain slack to specs and leave it alone, as constantly making minute adjustments will prematurely wear the chain by removing needed operating clearance.
The chain will loosen slightly, then stop, and then stay there for a long time, and I rarely feel compelled to adjust.
If you want to get an idea of chain slack on a typical dirt bike, check out a brand new Yamaha YZ on your local dealer's showroom.
When you ride off-road, dirt will get between the chain and sprocket teeth often, requiring more clearance and slack to cope, something a street bike will not be subjected to.
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BadBowtie03




PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Thu May 01, 2014 12:13 am

I bought a new X ring 112 link chain from RK chains. In gold color. I also bought JT sprockets. 13 in front and a 48 for the supermoto wheels and a 49 for the dirt wheels. So it will be a little lower gearing then I had... but thats what I wanted. Anyways...

Anyone have the part numbers for the front sprocket nut and washer oem from yamaha? Thanks so much!!!
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GT-250

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PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Thu May 01, 2014 2:08 am

The part number for the genuine counter shaft lock nut - front sprocket lock nut - is 90179-18010.

As for the washer, well it shows a picture of one in the workshop manual, but from memory of removing my front sprocket a few times i can't ever remember seeing that washer fitted. ( I have fitted aftermarket sprockets not long after i bought my bike new ). Also it does show the washer between the lock nut and the sprocket, but it does not list any reference to it from the exploded view diagram.

I know that for my aftermarket front sprocket that there would not be enough thread left on the counter shaft if a washer was used. So it may have been there for the original sprocket, but it's definately not needed for my AM sprocket. ( I can't remember from 2012 when i removed the original if there was a factory washer - but i'm thinking no ).

In any case if there is a washer there, then it would be re-usable, and you will soon know if it is needed or not from the amount of thread left on the shaft after intitial fit up.

Otherwise ask your local Yamaha dealer, as if there is a washer then they will have a part number from the exploded parts view.

Cheers.
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BadBowtie03




PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Thu May 01, 2014 2:11 am

Thanks! Also, I read about getting a new washer because someone said that the "crush" over time and that might of been why this nut was loose because it needs a new smushy washer? i dunno
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YZEtc

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PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Thu May 01, 2014 7:02 am

There is a beefy washer that goes between the sprocket and nut.
This part is right there in the parts catalogues.
The Yamaha part number is:

90201-18026-00

Without it, I doubt you will get tension on the nut before running out of threads.
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woofer2609




PostSubject: Re: Chain stretched too much! help!    Wed May 07, 2014 3:55 pm

BadBowtie03 wrote:
actually after looking closely... that sprocket looks worn way down on the black one. The blue one looks to have way more meat on it. So the pins on the chain are probably worn down to much then right? its not stretched.. just worn? thanks and sorry im a newb.
Worn and stretched are either the same thing, or completely different, depending on how you interpret words. The chain itself never truly "stretches", rather wear develops on the rivets and plates and the resulting gaps between them result in a longer chain than an unworn one.   (We're all newbs at something!) thumb
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