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 fuel pump problem

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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: fuel pump problem   Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:33 am

my o8 r gave me a problem today . i rode mine about 30 miles(pavement) to meet up with some friends to do some trail riding....they have ktm's and hauled their bike's to our woods area. after meeting up and them unloading and yet a little more waiting,for a late arrival rider,we finnally hit the trails.we went maybe 5 miles or so and stoped at a place to decide what direction we were going to go in first. after maybe a 10 minute stop,we are set to take off and everyone cranks their bike....mine started and ran for a few seconds and died....i hit the starter and again it ran for a few seconds then died. after several more tries with no luck...i finnally get everybody to cut their bikes off so i can listen for any noises or any hint of why it won't start.
the sound i didn't hear was the fuel pump...only a click(from the fuel pump) when i cut the switch on...no whirring or electric pump sound. i tried starting it several more times with the hope of hearing the fuel pump comming on to charge the pressure,but no luck.
i decide to just give it a few more minutes to just cool,even though it really wasn't all that hot.....and still hoping that i'd hear the pump run with the next try....no luck. i told my friends to just go ahead and hit some trails and i'll just push it back to a gravel access road and one of them could come back and pick me up in their truck on the way out. so off i go ,pushing back in the direction we had just come from....i got maybe 50 yards or so and thought i'd try turning it on again.....this time the pump came to life and it fired right up. since my friends had not left yet they were able to hear that my bike had started and came to where i was at.we all decided that we would go back in the direction of the trucks because we were pretty sure it wasn't a good idea to go on with the ride into the woods any farther. and i was sure pushing it really suxs....lol.
long story short....we rode,i would stop and cut the motor off every so often, then listen for the pump to re-charge. the first cpl times it sounded a little weak and make a squeaking sound....not good....i'm thinking the pump is bad/going bad and i'm on borrowed time. we just rode witrhin easy reach of the access road the rest of the day and after those cpl times of it squeaking while it pumped up the pressure...it went back to sounding normal again.
we ended up riding another 30-40 miles,and i even regained enough confidence in it to just ride the 30 miles back home with it.

anyone else had this happen?

i'm going to call the dealer next week and let them know/find out what i should do etc...
it's ruined my confidence in it overall now though,and i will have this in the back of my mind everytime i head off on it.
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:20 pm

after it cooled down for a cpl hours after getting back home,i went back and listened to the pump ....it sounds as normal as ever again. tried it a few times and each time it comes on with the switch...sounds normal and the bike fires right up.

i really hate it when something only gives a problem,but does not completely fail.
as it is now...i can't say it is/was just the pump that caused the problem on my ride.....it may be something else....ecu/ecm or pump relay or one of the switches or ????

it didn't give a cel,nor do i have any trouble codes stored.....it simply would not re-start for about a 30-40 minute period during my ride yesterday.
just to clarify...the starter would spin the engine over as normal,it just would not run.
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greer




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:25 pm

Having something like that happen a time or two would be enough to ruin anybody's confidence. Please let us know what the dealer says.

Sarah
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mtb

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:40 am

I was the first, and sad to say, I knew I won't be the last

first, try to get a new relay as it is a cheap check...

if the problem takes place again...go to the dealer and get it changed

good luck
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inspector

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:24 am

Yeah that happened to OOK yesterday. Seems as thou when it gets hot is when it won't start. Sat in the sun for 1/2hour and wouldn't start. Sounds like a problem that will just get worse and worse.
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:56 am

i'll post up whatever the dealer tells or advises on it.

honestly,if it were not for it having a warranty i wouldn't even bother with the dealer part.

i do all my own maintenance/repairs and mods.

hopefully the dealer will have heard about the fuel pump issues already,and actually have something useful to say or do about this.

i've owned several yamaha bikes and atv's over the years and all have been 100% reliable.
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bash3r

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:30 am

So I've seen many threads about the fuel pump, has anyone narrowed it down to a build number or anything? How could one tell if their bike maybe suspect for the bad fuel pump build? Or is there no rhyme or reason
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:06 am

i called the dealer this morning and spoke with the service manager.
he wasn't very talkitive...lol..
in fact the only thing i could get out of him was "bring it in and we'll look at it" and "it will be about a week after you bring it in till we can look at it".

all that comes to my mind on that is ...what a joke for any kind of service.

since it ...as of right now does seem to be working as normal again....i'm just going to keep riding it until it acts up again...or plain quits. at that point i guess i will then possibly try to have it warrantied or just fix and cover it myself.

as far as dealer service goes....i would almost rather just take my bike to the zoo and throw it into the gorrilla cage and hope for the best as i had to take it to any of my local dealers.
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greer




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:47 am

That wouldn't leave me feeling all warm and fuzzy, either. Have you seen this TT thread:

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=803090

Might be handy to reference in case you have to talk to the dealer again.

Sarah
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mwakey

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Tue Sep 15, 2009 11:04 am

dirtytrixx400 wrote:
i called the dealer this morning and spoke with the service manager.
he wasn't very talkitive...lol..
in fact the only thing i could get out of him was "bring it in and we'll look at it" and "it will be about a week after you bring it in till we can look at it".

all that comes to my mind on that is ...what a joke for any kind of service.

since it ...as of right now does seem to be working as normal again....i'm just going to keep riding it until it acts up again...or plain quits. at that point i guess i will then possibly try to have it warrantied or just fix and cover it myself.

as far as dealer service goes....i would almost rather just take my bike to the zoo and throw it into the gorrilla cage and hope for the best as i had to take it to any of my local dealers.

Not that I'm defending the dealer, but you know you are not their only customer. Sometimes shops do get busy and sometimes customers have to wait their turn. I work in a shop so I know how it goes from both sides. I feel for you man, but sometimes you got to let them have the bike.... and wait.
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:08 pm

mwakey wrote:
dirtytrixx400 wrote:
i called the dealer this morning and spoke with the service manager.
he wasn't very talkitive...lol..
in fact the only thing i could get out of him was "bring it in and we'll look at it" and "it will be about a week after you bring it in till we can look at it".

all that comes to my mind on that is ...what a joke for any kind of service.

since it ...as of right now does seem to be working as normal again....i'm just going to keep riding it until it acts up again...or plain quits. at that point i guess i will then possibly try to have it warrantied or just fix and cover it myself.

as far as dealer service goes....i would almost rather just take my bike to the zoo and throw it into the gorrilla cage and hope for the best as i had to take it to any of my local dealers.

Not that I'm defending the dealer, but you know you are not their only customer. Sometimes shops do get busy and sometimes customers have to wait their turn. I work in a shop so I know how it goes from both sides. I feel for you man, but sometimes you got to let them have the bike.... and wait.

lol...tell that to my buddy that has had his expensive can-am atv there since mid june waiting on them to do some warranty work.
i too have worked both sides of the counter and i know the difference in a put-off and good service. i really wanted info on the matter over anything else...but this guy was just a broken record....he just kept saying bring it in and we'll look at it,but it will be a week or so till we can look at it.

since it has went back to sounding normal i'm really hoping it just picked up some small piece of trash or a speck of plastic from the housing or whatever.
i've always been careful about being clean on my fuel,but you can't see what your pumping in your tank....just maybe i had picked up some moisture.
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:28 pm

greer wrote:
That wouldn't leave me feeling all warm and fuzzy, either. Have you seen this TT thread:

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=803090

Might be handy to reference in case you have to talk to the dealer again.

Sarah

thanks for the link...he posted that here too.
my vin # is 001699 and his was 001645 ....so they are in the same batch.

like i was saying earlier there are a few other parts too that could be at fault too....sticky/stuck pressure regulator....ecm.....relay etc. but when mine did decide to come on again it made a squeaking sound and sounded weak while it pressured up the first cpl times after it had quit. after those cpl times it now has returned to sounding normal again. that was what lead me to say it was the pump. i'm just gonna make sure i have my cell handy and hope it doesn't do it again for now. maybe it just picked up some trash or a little moisture and i lucked out on it...
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mwakey

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:05 pm

dirtytrixx400 wrote:

lol...tell that to my buddy that has had his expensive can-am atv there since mid june waiting on them to do some warranty work.
i too have worked both sides of the counter and i know the difference in a put-off and good service. i really wanted info on the matter over anything else...but this guy was just a broken record....he just kept saying bring it in and we'll look at it,but it will be a week or so till we can look at it.

since it has went back to sounding normal i'm really hoping it just picked up some small piece of trash or a speck of plastic from the housing or whatever.
i've always been careful about being clean on my fuel,but you can't see what your pumping in your tank....just maybe i had picked up some moisture.

Hey, I never said ALL dealers were good. Obviously this guy has no concerns about helping his customers. Find another dealer is all you can do. Call Yamaha Customer Service and complain. I know it's an old saying but the squeeky wheel really does get the grease. Taking your business elsewhere will hurt him in the long run. Spread the word about his dealership and their lack of customer service if you feel that strongly. Most people just put up with it and then these type of dealers keep on doing the same thing. If enough of his customers speak out or complain it will eventually get back to him and hurt his business. If you were in my shop you would get much better service, but there are some a-holes out there who just don't care. Good luck with your pump problems.
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0007onWR

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:33 am

The fact that your pump sounded funny is a good clue, if it were a relay or a pressure switch it would not make the pump sound weird
As for the pressure switch, the system over rides it when you turn the key on, regardless as to the pressure in the rail the pump will run
In a perfect world you could measure the amperage draw when the pump is running but no one can tell you what it should be, you could test a known good unit though if you have the time and opportunity
Could probably do it at the fuse
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:20 pm

0007onWR wrote:
The fact that your pump sounded funny is a good clue, if it were a relay or a pressure switch it would not make the pump sound weird
As for the pressure switch, the system over rides it when you turn the key on, regardless as to the pressure in the rail the pump will run
In a perfect world you could measure the amperage draw when the pump is running but no one can tell you what it should be, you could test a known good unit though if you have the time and opportunity
Could probably do it at the fuse

like i said...i hate it when something only gives a problem but does not completely fail. i was only referring to the relay or anything in the circuit that might possibly cause a intermitten bad connection....weak connection...funny sounding pump.

the idea of maybe it was some foriegn "something" that may have went into/thru the pump is only an idea....and if that was the case then apparently the injector was also able to pass it thru also. when it did make the funny sound it sounded to me like it was in a strain to run...and it made that squeaking sound too. it only did that for the next cpl tries after it decided to run again.

whatever the problem is/was...it has returned to working again as normal....fingers crossed that it will stay that way. for the rest of that day i ran it pretty hard off road and then rode it back home ...about 30 miles,without any more problems.
i'm really wanting to get in a ride after work in the evening to just check it out,but it has been raining here every day
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rydnseek

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:52 pm

It seems like it is an overheating issue with the fuel pumps.. the motors overheat & shut down. When they cool, they reset & work ok. A full tank of fuel & cooler weather may mask the problem for a while, but by next summer on a long ride it will no doubt show again. Seems like Yamaha would know about this & do a recall.. especially if it's just a certain batch.

I don't have that many miles on mine, yet, & it's an early make.. #251 off the line from 12/07. But i haven't heard of the early ones having the issue.. just the 2/08 or thereabouts dated fuel pumps.

At least we can wait for it to cool & reset, but a permanent fix would be much better. (duh)

scotty
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OOk




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:30 am

Yup. I've got this issue too. About 2 weeks ago the bike started acting funny when I was running errands. Was reluctant to start or would die after starting. But would always eventually start after 2 or 3 tries. Well I went on a ride (my actual first dirt ride evar) with Inspector and a couple others. We were waiting for a late arrival, so the bike sat in the sun for 30-45 mins. And of course as soon as our late arrival showed I jumped on and tried to start up and... nothin. So I pushed the bike into the shade as i'd heard about the "over heating pump" issue and just told the guys to go on without me. :(

Well after about 15 mins the bike started so I jumped on and met them at the next meetup. Got gas and the bike started! Then we farted around on some fire roads, turned the bike off and... oh shit... i shouldnt have done that. Waited for about 10 mins and it finally started. So we get to the halfway point and everybody wants to stop for water, so i figure we'll be stopped for at least 30 mins so i take a chance and turn the bike off and park it in the shade... big mistake. It took A FUCKING HOUR before I got it started again. A buddy stayed behing and waited with me and the others took off to finish off the day. Anyway, needless to say, I didn't turn the bike off again until I got it in the garage. GRRRR!

Worst part of it is, I called the dealer and the bike's warranty was up in April this year. DOUBLE FUCK! I was gonna call Yamaha Motors North America and see what they say about a bike with 1200 miles on the clock leaving its riding stranded in the middle of BFE for an afternoon.
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:31 am

OOk wrote:
Yup. I've got this issue too. About 2 weeks ago the bike started acting funny when I was running errands. Was reluctant to start or would die after starting. But would always eventually start after 2 or 3 tries. Well I went on a ride (my actual first dirt ride evar) with Inspector and a couple others. We were waiting for a late arrival, so the bike sat in the sun for 30-45 mins. And of course as soon as our late arrival showed I jumped on and tried to start up and... nothin. So I pushed the bike into the shade as i'd heard about the "over heating pump" issue and just told the guys to go on without me. :(

Well after about 15 mins the bike started so I jumped on and met them at the next meetup. Got gas and the bike started! Then we farted around on some fire roads, turned the bike off and... oh shit... i shouldnt have done that. Waited for about 10 mins and it finally started. So we get to the halfway point and everybody wants to stop for water, so i figure we'll be stopped for at least 30 mins so i take a chance and turn the bike off and park it in the shade... big mistake. It took A FUCKING HOUR before I got it started again. A buddy stayed behing and waited with me and the others took off to finish off the day. Anyway, needless to say, I didn't turn the bike off again until I got it in the garage. GRRRR!

Worst part of it is, I called the dealer and the bike's warranty was up in April this year. DOUBLE FUCK! I was gonna call Yamaha Motors North America and see what they say about a bike with 1200 miles on the clock leaving its riding stranded in the middle of BFE for an afternoon.

dang,sorry to hear yours is acting up too. lol...it is a pretty sick feeling when you realize that it is not going to crank back up...out in the woods.

did you happen to notice if the pump sounded different from any other time before this started happening?

i just got thru washing mine and doing my air filter maintenance......my pump now sounds as good as ever and the bike fires right up.

hopefully if we do end up replaceing the pumps...they will be a different or "fixed" version and not the same pump with it's possible future problems again.
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greer




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:31 pm

I'd encourage you two to call Yamaha. Maybe if folks make plenty of racket early on we'll get a recall of the bad pumps. Then we won't have to sit and wonder when this will happen to us.

Sarah
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OOk




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:36 pm

greer wrote:
I'd encourage you two to call Yamaha. Maybe if folks make plenty of racket early on we'll get a recall of the bad pumps. Then we won't have to sit and wonder when this will happen to us.

Sarah

Yup. I am calling tomorrow. Kind of wouldn't expect a bike with only 1200 miles on it to strand me out in BFE. Sorta not cool.
I'm also going to mention this is my first Yamaha, I currently own 2 zuki's and a Honda and that this is not a good start to our relationship. I have flogged my gsxr on the track for 5 seasons, crashed it at almost 100mph and done nothing to it but change the oil and the thing has been solid as a rock. They need to help me not regret not getting a DRZ.
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:47 pm

i finnally got a chance to go on a quick little ride between rain/storms here. my wife had locked her keys in her car at our walmart,and needed me to bring her the extra key....perfect chance/excuse to use my bike....ran perfect.

i guess i've checked and listened to the pump charge up the pressure and cranked the bike enough now since the episode from last weekend to feel ok about it...lol...i guess.

maybe next time it will fail completely....then i will have to pursue it further. maybe it won't ever act up again?...i don't know how to second guess something that did that but now acts as normal again.

i'm still tempted to take the tank off and drain it and look for anything in it or in the remaining fuel.....i'm still using the same tank of fuel as i had in it from the last ride....can't be very much left in it now.
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OOk




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Sat Sep 19, 2009 3:52 pm

dirtytrixx400 wrote:
i finnally got a chance to go on a quick little ride between rain/storms here. my wife had locked her keys in her car at our walmart,and needed me to bring her the extra key....perfect chance/excuse to use my bike....ran perfect.

i guess i've checked and listened to the pump charge up the pressure and cranked the bike enough now since the episode from last weekend to feel ok about it...lol...i guess.

maybe next time it will fail completely....then i will have to pursue it further. maybe it won't ever act up again?...i don't know how to second guess something that did that but now acts as normal again.

i'm still tempted to take the tank off and drain it and look for anything in it or in the remaining fuel.....i'm still using the same tank of fuel as i had in it from the last ride....can't be very much left in it now.

One thing you have to realize is that weather is easily 60-70% of the issue. The pump fails because it overheats, if it's cold and wet out, it doesn't over heat. It didn't not fail this time because it's a random issue, it didn't fail because it was wet and cold/moderate. Next 80 degree day, go for a ride, leave the bike in the sun and see if she starts up, I will bet you a beer it won't.
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:05 pm

well it has cooled off here in the past week or so to the mid 80's.
it had been in the low-mid 90's it seemed like forever this year.

the day it did this was one of the coolest days i had gotten to ride in awhile....mid 80's.
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OOk




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:03 pm

dirtytrixx400 wrote:
well it has cooled off here in the past week or so to the mid 80's.
it had been in the low-mid 90's it seemed like forever this year.

the day it did this was one of the coolest days i had gotten to ride in awhile....mid 80's.

Hmm, ya your issue may be possibly stranger than my issue. Out here it was in the 70's-80's and as the temps raised the issue seemed to get worse for me. The first time it completely failed was in the morning around 10:45, bike was sitting in direct sunlight and it was probably mid to high 70's. Maybe direct sunlight and rain are bigger factors than ambient air temp??? Dunno, but I'm 100% positive I can reproduce mine given the right circomstances.
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greer




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:37 pm

The bike I bought has an extended warranty. But before I bought it, I called Yamaha a couple of times to make sure the warranty was fully transferrable to me, and then on to the next owner should I decide to sell it. The second time I called, they put me on hold a minute while they pulled the file documenting everything about me, the bike, and our first conversation. I'm figuring they do all calls that way. That's why I think you two (and anyybody else who's experienced a pump issue) should call. Get it documented and on file. Seems that would have to help cover you later on.

Sarah
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