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 fuel pump problem

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johnkol




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:59 am

My pump finally bit the dust: 2008 model, 8k miles, hot day, aftermarket tank (IMS 4.7), and low on gas. It started dying for a couple of seconds, then it would come back, die again, etc. I was fortunate that this happened at the very end of a 550 mile trip, and I was able to make it home.

I ordered the Kemso pump and it came in just a couple of days (then again, the guy is in California); I was expecting some documentation given that the seller advertises a lifetime warranty for the pump, but there wasn't even a label to indicate the manufacturer, or some contact info in case one needs to file a warranty claim.

So I sent the seller an email asking them how the lifetime warranty is supposed to work without any documentation, and here is his reply:

Quote :
Yes, we offer lifetime warranty, we don't have any document, but we have been selling fuel pump at eBay since 2009, you can count on us, we will give you continued support.

Essentially then the warranty works on an honour system, and the expectation that the seller will still be in business when the pump breaks down. I suppose the pump is inexpensive enough that even if the warranty does not work, one can buy a new one from another vendor.

Got my precision picks form Harbor Freight, and will be installing it tomorrow.
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TioJose

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:07 am

Mine is still packed in my spare parts bundle, hope not needed in future.

If you like please make a step by step pic story and post it here, how to exchange it and what the trick is leaving the existing hose and pulling it from the bracket.
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k1322




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Sun Jul 03, 2016 10:09 am

Yes, please snap a couple of pictures for a simple tutorial.
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johnkol




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:38 am

Replaced the pump over the weekend, and it was easier than what I had feared, but more difficult that what I had been wishing for. Hopefully these notes will help others when faced with the same task.

So we start with the pump assembly, which I had already modified for the IMS 4.7 tank (removed the fuel sensor cage, and moved the sensor down). I had already seen the posts suggesting that the job is much easier if precision picks are available, so I got a set from Harbor Freight.

The plastic cage holding the pump is secured by three tabs, and I started by attempting to open the first one. Inserting one pick was not enough:



but using a second one did the job:



and I was able to pry open the first tab:



But now the plastic cage was under stress, so when I tried to open the second tab, the first one slid back into the locked position.

After a few similarly failed attempts to open the second tab, I realised that I needed to use something to keep the first tab from closing back while I attempted to open the second one. I lodged a small precision screwdriver in the plastic cage to prevent it from sliding back:



and that did the trick; still, the second tab was much more difficult to pry open because the cage was stressed already:



The third tab was even more difficult to open, but eventually it too succumbed without breaking:



Removing the electrical connectors should have been easy, but I was not able to pull the blue wire off; eventually I figured that pushing instead of pulling was much more effective: pushing it up (using the cage as a lever) required almost no force to pop it off:



Next task was to remove the fuel line that connected the upper cage to the lower one:



but no matter how hard I tried, the line would not budge. At some point I gave up and decided to see whether one could separate the two cages enough so that the pump could be pulled out -- and indeed they could:



Finally, the pump is out:



I took my caliper and measured the two pumps, and their dimensions were identical; keep this in mind, we will need this information later.

The stock filter looked clean, so I separated it from the pump intending to use it with the Kemso one. But for some reason, the stock filter did not fit the Kemso pump tightly, so I decided to use the Kemso-provided filter. The star nut that secures the filter to the pump housing was surprisingly difficult to install, so I used the stock one that I had removed from the original pump:



Pay particular attention to the o-ring that seals the pump outlet against the cage; you should hear and feel a distinct *pop* when the pump seats against the cage; I had to re-arrange the o-ring a few times before I got it right.

Once this was done, it was time to slide the upper cage onto the lower one; this required quite a bit of force because the fuel line is inflexible enough that it does not allow for a lot of twisting and bending. It can be done but just barely. From there on, it's easy to slide the two cages to engage the three tabs:



Next step was to secure the fuel level sensor, but when I slid it back into the zip ties, it felt quite loose -- and so did the IMS fuel line that is secured to the stock fuel line with zip ties. I suppose the zip ties must have expanded after spending this much time in gasoline, so I tigthened them up:



I thought I was done, but while examining the pump assembly I discovered that the pump was rattling inside the cage. How could that be? Remember that I had measured the two pumps and their dimensions were identical, so why doesn't the Kemso pump fit tightly inside the cage?

I could not answer this; maybe the stock pump had also been rattling and I did not notice it simply because I never checked it? Whatever the reason, the fact was that the new pump was not fitting tightly inside the cage, so I lodged a zip tie between the cage and the pump, and that eliminated the rattling:



Finally, everything looked fine, and I went ahead and installed the pump assembly back into the tank.

Let's see how long this new pump lasts.


Last edited by johnkol on Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TioJose

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:22 am

Thanks for your quality report.
Info makes it easy to carry a parts and toolkit when going abroad.
And also points of attention.
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Bookaroo




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:47 pm

just taken out my original 2008 WR260R fuel pump to replace it, and the original as play inside the cage from side to side, but not on the other axis, wich makes sense the way it operates, I also have a video on youtube under the nane TheBookaroo showing normal play, I can not post links yet, hope it helps somebody.
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johnkol




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:38 pm

Bookaroo wrote:
just taken out my original 2008 WR260R fuel pump to replace it, and the original as play inside the cage from side to side, but not on the other axis

That's good to know, thanks for the confirmation that there is nothing wrong with the replacement pump, it is a design flaw of the fuel assembly.

I wonder whether this rattling may be contributing to the early demise of the pump.
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Bookaroo




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:30 am

Maybe, I will try to report back in two years :-)
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chriswh86

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:16 pm

johnkol wrote:
Bookaroo wrote:
just taken out my original 2008 WR260R fuel pump to replace it, and the original as play inside the cage from side to side, but not on the other axis

That's good to know, thanks for the confirmation that there is nothing wrong with the replacement pump, it is a design flaw of the fuel assembly.

I wonder whether this rattling may be contributing to the early demise of the pump.

I can confirm as well that the stock pump has some X/Y play in it but no Z play when its in the housing. I managed to get my cage off of the housing today using 2 flat blade screw drivers. Its not as pretty as using the picks but it got the job done. The plastic is pretty resilient and found I only left a couple marks from the flat blades being jammed under the tabs. It wouldnt be fun to do on the side of the road but if you had a friend and 3 flat blade screw drivers it can be done. The pick set probably helps a lot if they dont bend.

Thanks for the walk through, I am now just waiting for the pump to come in.

Chris,
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chriswh86

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:21 pm

johnkol wrote:
Bookaroo wrote:
just taken out my original 2008 WR260R fuel pump to replace it, and the original as play inside the cage from side to side, but not on the other axis

That's good to know, thanks for the confirmation that there is nothing wrong with the replacement pump, it is a design flaw of the fuel assembly.

I wonder whether this rattling may be contributing to the early demise of the pump.

Bookaroo wrote:
Maybe, I will try to report back in two years :-)

Do you guys recall which way the fuel pump nipple is supposed to point? I took it off and forgot to take a photo, same with the fuel line
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johnkol




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:30 am

chriswh86 wrote:
Do you guys recall which way the fuel pump nipple is supposed to point? I took it off and forgot to take a photo, same with the fuel line

You mean the fuel outlet with respect to the tank? It should point forward.

The fuel line is free to rotate, so you don't have to worry about its orientation.
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Bookaroo




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:08 am

Here is a video of the normal OEM play for the fuel pump :
https://youtu.be/lKBFp1tDAe0
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Bookaroo




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:40 am

I also did a video of the replacement, it's in french I hope to have a voice over in English.
https://youtu.be/i7vS_283Jug
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Bookaroo




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:01 am

Bookaroo wrote:
Maybe, I will try to report back in two years :-)

Do you guys recall which way the fuel pump nipple is supposed to point? I took it off and forgot to take a photo, same with the fuel line[/quote]

From the service manual, you have tabs to align the retaining ring to the pump, and on my bike it also have a tab in the insulation, or point it froward as said before.

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DSO




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:17 pm

OK...probably covered, but my new to me '08 WR250R has about 3+K miles and I am going to install a 3.1 IMS fuel tank.

My plan it to avoid future "flame outs" by replacing the still functional OEM fuel pump with a Yamaha OEM replacement and then carry the current one as a back-up. Expensive, yes, but getting stranded where I ride alone is not an option.

Question is if any recent OEM WR fuel pumps have suffered the old problems seen in the '08s and others.

Thanks,

Phil
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Bookaroo




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:29 pm

DSO wrote:
OK...probably covered, but my new to me '08 WR250R has about 3+K miles and I am going to install a 3.1 IMS fuel tank.

My plan it to avoid future "flame outs" by replacing the still functional OEM fuel pump with a Yamaha OEM replacement and then carry the current one as a back-up.  Expensive, yes, but getting stranded where I ride alone is not an option.

Question is if any recent OEM WR fuel pumps have suffered the old problems seen in the '08s and others.

Thanks,

Phil


From what I read, many rider have the same problem with newer bikes and newer OEM replacement pumps. That is why I choose to replace only the pump not the whole OEM housing, and if I was in your situation, I would buy a replacement pump, it's not that hard to replace on the trail, and it's a lot cheaper and smaller to carry.

If I go on a big adventure trip, I will buy and carry a spare for me and my friends, 4 of them have the same bike.
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DSO




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:58 pm

Bookaroo wrote:
DSO wrote:
OK...probably covered, but my new to me '08 WR250R has about 3+K miles and I am going to install a 3.1 IMS fuel tank.

My plan it to avoid future "flame outs" by replacing the still functional OEM fuel pump with a Yamaha OEM replacement and then carry the current one as a back-up.  Expensive, yes, but getting stranded where I ride alone is not an option.

Question is if any recent OEM WR fuel pumps have suffered the old problems seen in the '08s and others.

Thanks,

Phil


From what I read, many rider have the same problem with newer bikes and newer OEM replacement pumps. That is why I choose to replace only the pump not the whole OEM housing, and if I was in your situation, I would buy a replacement pump, it's not that hard to replace on the trail, and it's a lot cheaper and smaller to carry.

If I go on a big adventure trip, I will buy and carry a spare for me and my friends, 4 of them have the same bike.

Ouch! That is too bad that even current OEM Yamaha WR fuel pumps are still failing...I thought they had sorted out the problem.

Thanks,

Phil
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BCRider




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Wed May 24, 2017 1:42 pm

Ugggghhhh!!! Pump just went on my '14 last night at 11k.. luckily close to home.

Called Yamaha this morning and after tax for the pump and O-ring is $688 in Canada.

They have updated P/N: 3D7-13907-11-00

So much for a new programmer/exhaust this year tough
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johnkol




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Wed May 24, 2017 6:08 pm

A lot of people (me included) have been using the eBay pumps that cost under $40 for a long time without any problems.

Of course you will have to install it yourself, but instructions are just up this page.
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BCRider




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Wed May 24, 2017 7:22 pm

johnkol wrote:
A lot of people (me included) have been using the eBay pumps that cost under $40 for a long time without any problems.

Of course you will have to install it yourself, but instructions are just up this page.

Yeah, I was reading about that.. Figure I'll order the pump from ebay and install it in my old housing for backup.

We have a short riding season here and I'm starting late, so didn't want to wait any longer than I had to. Glad this happened on my first ride in town and not when I'm way up in the mountains cheers
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Bookaroo




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Thu May 25, 2017 8:33 am

Mine still works great after a year of trails :

http://r.ebay.com/Fj3NCs

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X-Racer

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:16 pm

Allllrightythen....

08 has been running since new, 3800 miles later, coming off a break, fires-up, starts normally, during acceleration it felt sorta flat in throttle response.

Ran back through the woods, seems nominal, get to the next break, shut it "Off". Sat for a few, hit the starter, engine spins. Nothing...

Pump sounds nominal... Nothing weird. Tried to bump it... Nothing.

Tried to start it several times after - Nothing. Got her home, go out to see if it starts. Starts, runs, everything nominal.

I did see that some were intermittent. Is that a common factor ?

I suspect the fuel pump because of the bikes year and the preceding 13 pages of history.

Is there a bottom line to the troubleshooting and/or any other suspicions ?

Thanks !
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johnkol




PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:51 pm

X-Racer wrote:
I did see that some were intermittent.  Is that a common factor ?  

I suspect the fuel pump because of the bikes year and the preceding 13 pages of history.  

The fundamental problem seems to be the fact that the pump overheats; failures seem to happen on very hot days, especially with aftermarket tanks where the pump can be exposed to air.

What you are describing does sound like a pump problem, but I would wait for it to happen again to verify that it is indeed the pump.
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X-Racer

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump problem   Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:24 pm

johnkol wrote:

The fundamental problem seems to be the fact that the pump overheats; failures seem to happen on very hot days, especially with aftermarket tanks where the pump can be exposed to air.

What you are describing does sound like a pump problem, but I would wait for it to happen again to verify that it is indeed the pump.

Thanks for the reply John... It was actually 70 degrees. No solar loading, cool, dark, and rainy.

I'm not sure I want to gamble or experiment. ...and I can't imagine any other failure that would exhibit that symptom.

I think I'll just R/R it.
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