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 New bike; new problems! Or are there?

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SkylandClyde




PostSubject: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Tue May 13, 2014 12:26 am

Alright!

So after a few years of waiting and saving, I finally made the purchase on a pre-owned WR250R. It came with a set of "X" rims as well as the stock "R" rims, Pro Taper 7/8" handlebars, edge2 taillight, aftermarket front blinkers installed into the headlamp assembly, and a custom-made welded-to-frame stunt bar. The bike only had about 2400 miles on it. This is my first "road bike". It was either this or a used 08 KTM 690 SMC - but I figured since I'll be enlisting within the next few months this was the smarter investment.

I had to tow this f'er all the way from Grand Island, NY to my home in NJ (6-hour, one way, but the deal was too hard to pass!)

I didn't test the bike with even a quick ride, unfortunately. I'd been talking to this kid for the past few weeks, planning the trip up to NY and Niagra Falls (much better on the Canadian side for any of you wanting to see it, btw). I was told the bike was completely stock other than the above mentioned mods. Don't ask why I was so trusting.

After getting home I checked the bike out and, who knew, there were mods. There was an airbox mod (flapper removal + door cut out completely), and also the ais removal kit.

I did some research and it's recommended to purchase an EFI programmer when doing any sort of airbox mods at all. This was off the Graves Motorspots site if you look up the smog block off kit:

"Unfortunately by doing this the A/F ratio is thrown off by the extra "fresh air" in the exhaust stream. By removing the air injection system you can achieve an accurate A/F ratio. This is a "MUST" add on to achieve a proper air fuel ratio while using the Dynojet Power Commander Autotune setup".

So, now I'm on the look out for an EFI programmer. I wasn't aware you actually had to purchase this but, guess I was wrong from the research I've found (this seems to vary from one mouth to the next).

Here's some of the problems my bike is currently having lately more and more. I'm wondering if this is because of the airbox mod(?):

Problem 1:

My bike has been more and more hot the warmer the weather gets. I get feel directly under the seat where the flapper once was all the hot air blowing through the seat. It can get uncomfortable. Like, burning your ass uncomfortable. I've always noticed my right leg has been getting hotter and hotter from what feels like the engine. Yesterday my bike actually shut down from SLOWLY riding the bike and the fan turned on. It was pretty shocking. Also, I noticed my coolant hasn't gone anywhere in months. Same exact level. Any suggestions?

Problem #2:

My brakes seem to really suck. The pads look fine. I have to press down REAL far on my brakes to get the bike to slow down more. Same with my front brake. Is this where I need to start bleeding the brakes? This wasn't happening a month ago. And I have full brake fluid so that can't be the case.

Future mods and questions:

- Zeta 1-1/8" Trial 4.5 with RX it.
- Barkbuster Ego Handguards.
- Seat Concepts Complete Seat
- axle sliders
- gearing change (suggestions?), probably 13/47
- Ultimate airbox mod
- Flatland racing skid plate
- Barkbuster bar end weights
- new mirrors .........
- new headlight means I need new flashers since the current aftermarket ones are installed in the headlight.
- No Toil Super Flo Filter Kit
- FMF megabomb header + Q4
- Hel steel braided brake lines
- Factory Effex temperature stickers (need these asap, actually)
- Sandman Freedom Case Saver kit
- DRC supermoto footpegs
- System tech Racing Speed Bleed fork valves
- Shorai Power Lithium-Iron Battery (possibly, just for weight savings)
- new DIY paint job - possibly - at least on white side covers! They're a bit beaten
- exhaust wrap on header

Anyone have the Athena Big Bore Kit and/or Hot Rods 3mm Stroker Crank Kit? I'm real interested in this.

I found a mod where you just take over the airbox cover ...that jointed the acceleration up but it killed my gas mileage so I installed it back on.

Any help would be awesome!

(This post was edited due to getting no sleep for nearly 2 days. Sorry everyone)


Last edited by SkylandClyde on Tue May 13, 2014 7:40 pm; edited 2 times in total
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motokid
Moderator
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PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Tue May 13, 2014 5:34 am

Holy long mutha-phuckin post man..... amazon amazon amazon 

Don't even know where to begin.

What does the title for the bike say regarding the model year? It's possible the build date on the vin plate says 08, but it's technically an 09.

What exactly do you mean by "airbox" mod?
If it's just the flapper and ais removal you don't really have to have an efi programmer, but regardless of all that they do help out a lot and considering EVERYTHING you plan to do you'll have to get one sooner or later any way.

How an efi unit is hooked up based on which unit you buy. Power Commmander, FmF, or Attitude Industries are all relatively similar in that one plug connects to throttle body, the yamaha plug you just unplugged goes into other connector, and a ground connects to battery. A loop is created. The PC units also have a plug that connects to throttle position sensor.

Setting up an efi unit is based on either taking the bike to some place with a dyno and having it "tuned" for you, or downloading a map right to unit, or fat-fingering in some numbers based on what you read at this forum. Tuning is dependent on your mods, where you live (altitude, temp and humidity) and what you're looking for.


As for the heat under the seat.....you should check for an exhaust leak. You sure you have a stock exhaust? Header and all? I've not experienced any such issue and I've ridden my X for hours in 90+ degree temps numerous occasions.

Don't remove the airbox door without having an efi programmer. You're going to be running too lean.

Since this is your first street bike, I'd REALLY suggest you take a professionally taught rider safety class.

You'll learn a lot.





_________________
2008 WR250X
Gearing: 13t - 48t
Power Commander 5 / PC-V
Airbox Door Removed - Flapper glued - AIS removed
FmF Q4
Bridgestone Battlax BT-003rs
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YZEtc

avatar


PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Tue May 13, 2014 6:55 am

Howdy.

I agree:
That post was long enough to actually discourage others from reading it all.  ;)

About the model year discovery:
Welcome to The New Age, as the song goes.
I've found that it is very common for the seller to know jack sheet about the bike he's selling.
Next time keep that in mind, and if you do meet a guy or girl that knows their stuff, that's somewhat rare, because, most riders buy these things on a whim - they're often not life-long motorcyclists.
Also, believe it or not, there are actually people out there that feel it's OK to lie, and the only thing wrong with that is getting caught doing it.

The VIN stamped into the frame behind the headlight area is how you tell the model year.
The VIN has 17 digits.
Count in to the 10th digit.
8 = 2008
9 = 2009
Just like with a car, as it's a US law.

As for the heat you feel:
What are you wearing for trousers and footwear while riding?
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SkylandClyde




PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Tue May 13, 2014 7:54 pm

motokid wrote:
Holy long mutha-phuckin post man..... amazon amazon amazon 

Don't even know where to begin.

What does the title for the bike say regarding the model year? It's possible the build date on the vin plate says 08, but it's technically an 09.

What exactly do you mean by "airbox" mod?
If it's just the flapper and ais removal you don't really have to have an efi programmer, but regardless of all that they do help out a lot and considering EVERYTHING you plan to do you'll have to get one sooner or later any way.

How an efi unit is hooked up based on which unit you buy. Power Commmander, FmF, or Attitude Industries are all relatively similar in that one plug connects to throttle body, the yamaha plug you just unplugged goes into other connector, and a ground connects to battery. A loop is created. The PC units also have a plug that connects to throttle position sensor.

Setting up an efi unit is based on either taking the bike to some place with a dyno and having it "tuned" for you, or downloading a map right to unit, or fat-fingering in some numbers based on what you read at this forum. Tuning is dependent on your mods, where you live (altitude, temp and humidity) and what you're looking for.


As for the heat under the seat.....you should check for an exhaust leak. You sure you have a stock exhaust? Header and all? I've not experienced any such issue and I've ridden my X for hours in 90+ degree temps numerous occasions.

Don't remove the airbox door without having an efi programmer. You're going to be running too lean.

Since this is your first street bike, I'd REALLY suggest you take a professionally taught rider safety class.

You'll learn a lot.






Thanks for the response. I edited the post since it was ridiculously long and I was literally passing out from barely sleeping due to finals!

It's an '08. Just checked. And there's a date of "3/08" right on it. It's my fault. I should've found it and caught the kid bsing me. Lesson learned.

Anyway, I took the safety course right before I obtained my license, so that's not a problem. I have a buddy that, just for support, I'll be taking the class with (it's free and they're really nice, educated riders worth learning from). There's an advanced course I want to check out too. That'll be with another friend.

I reposted what Graves Motorsports put on their site. Here's the link I got the quote from:

http://www.gravesport.com/Graves-Motorsports-Yamaha-WR250R-WR250X-Smog-Block-Off-Kit.html

I figure I'll end up getting the programmer sooner than later anyway due to starting to obtain the upgrades I've been wanting for the bike. Ebay is my friend here! It's probably best if I buy all the parts offline and then take everything to a respected shop (somewhat hard over in Sussex, NJ, admittedly). I got pretty much robbed from Sussex Motorsports. I won't even post what they charged me to order new tires and put them on my bike. For that amount I would've done everything myself...

The airbox cover I placed back on the very next day. Like I said, it killed my gas mileage. I hit 85mph on the bike like it was nothing. I couldn't believe the bike boosted that much in acceleration with such a simple thing. Before that (and now) I can top at 70-75 with stock WR250X gearing. I'd like to be able to have the boost but obviously I'm not interested in hurting my bike. I need the proper mods.

From what I can tell the exhaust and header is stock. I'll have to look for leaks but the problem is directly under my ass so it's kind of an issue ....haha ...well, I guess it's not funny because I don't know what the hell's going on.

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SkylandClyde




PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Tue May 13, 2014 9:25 pm

YZEtc wrote:
Howdy.

I agree:
That post was long enough to actually discourage others from reading it all.  ;)

About the model year discovery:
Welcome to The New Age, as the song goes.
I've found that it is very common for the seller to know jack sheet about the bike he's selling.
Next time keep that in mind, and if you do meet a guy or girl that knows their stuff, that's somewhat rare, because, most riders buy these things on a whim - they're often not life-long motorcyclists.
Also, believe it or not, there are actually people out there that feel it's OK to lie, and the only thing wrong with that is getting caught doing it.

The VIN stamped into the frame behind the headlight area is how you tell the model year.
The VIN has 17 digits.
Count in to the 10th digit.
8 = 2008
9 = 2009
Just like with a car, as it's a US law.

As for the heat you feel:
What are you wearing for trousers and footwear while riding?

I shorted the post so I don't push people away from the topic. Hopefully it attracts some attention. Again, I'm glad and thankful for the responses.

Every time I ride I wear: Icon Alliance helmet, gloves (they're only "Mechanix Impact gloves) and boots. I ordered a Fox Creek Leather Vented Bomber jacket but it just wasn't me. Outstanding quality from that company and I actually do recommend them if you're NOT acting like a hooligan but, those jackets (at least mine) are HEAVY. So, I mainly just wear a little leather jacket and/or hoodie.

Ironically enough I'm writing this after me + a passenger were just riding around a dirt mount/field and slipped in 2nd through some mud and fell over. Couldn't have fallen in a more safer spot. My passenger was like "Well, now I know why it's safe to wear gloves and a helmet!" (which we were wearing.) The more I ride, the more I'm aware higher quality, actual "riding" gear is necessary.



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SkylandClyde




PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Tue May 13, 2014 9:28 pm

So, after writing Motosport about questions regarding installing a 290 big bore kit, how I wanted the best "all arounder" sort of bike (quick, fun, adventuring, nice 0-60mph, kick-around, just a nice all around to put a smile on my face; knowing this was going to be the beginning of my supermoto route) I received a response back. Here's the response. Any thoughts?

"So in answer to your question the big bore may not be the best option for you. The 290 big bore are notorious for actually falling flat on top end power. It will add quite a bit of low end grunt, but if that was what you were looking for that would be as simple as re gearing your bike. If you are looking for top end gains while not taking a whole lot away from the bottom may even be doing a set of stage 2 hot cams. Stage 2 Hotcams are intended to add top end power onto your bike, which from there if you noticed a huge lack in the bottom end you could add a tooth or 2 on the rear to give you a little more. With the hot cams you will not have to mod anything or have any additional maintenance (though it couldn't hurt to throw a new cam chain in as you install the hot cams). Also if you go with a big bore later on the hot cams will help counteract the lack of top end that a 290 kit will give you. Another option is you can do hot cams to add top end and then also do a high compression piston so that it will add a little extra low end grunt onto the bike. Those two mods are only going to cost around $700 (US currency) generally speaking and will make a huge difference in how the bike performs and add a good amount of power throughout the power band. I hope this helps you with your bike."
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4play

avatar


PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Tue May 13, 2014 10:50 pm

SkylandClyde wrote:
So, after writing Motosport about questions regarding installing a 290 big bore kit, how I wanted the best "all arounder" sort of bike (quick, fun, adventuring, nice 0-60mph, kick-around, just a nice all around to put a smile on my face; knowing this was going to be the beginning of my supermoto route) I received a response back. Here's the response. Any thoughts?

"So in answer to your question the big bore may not be the best option for you. The 290 big bore are notorious for actually falling flat on top end power. It will add quite a bit of low end grunt, but if that was what you were looking for that would be as simple as re gearing your bike. If you are looking for top end gains while not taking a whole lot away from the bottom may even be doing a set of stage 2 hot cams. Stage 2 Hotcams are intended to add top end power onto your bike, which from there if you noticed a huge lack in the bottom end you could add a tooth or 2 on the rear to give you a little more. With the hot cams you will not have to mod anything or have any additional maintenance (though it couldn't hurt to throw a new cam chain in as you install the hot cams). Also if you go with a big bore later on the hot cams will help counteract the lack of top end that a 290 kit will give you. Another option is you can do hot cams to add top end and then also do a high compression piston so that it will add a little extra low end grunt onto the bike. Those two mods are only going to cost around $700 (US currency) generally speaking and will make a huge difference in how the bike performs and add a good amount of power throughout the power band. I hope this helps you with your bike."  

I'd really like to see the camshaft claim backed up with a dyno chart. I've seen pipes, airbox & tuners dyno 25-27hp (there was one magic dyno that claimed 31 HP), 280 or 290 kits ~5-6hp more & 306 kits with ported heads dyno 4-6hp more than the big bore alone. Sisneros managed a couple more HP (40hp) on a 306 with his ported head cam.
Travis at Thumper Racing did some dyno work recommended a Crower cam for a little more umph.
Interestingly Travis recommended the stock header over the power bomb.

My 306 is ready to install, I may get it in the bike this week.

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motokid
Moderator
avatar


PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Wed May 14, 2014 7:22 am

SkylandClyde wrote:

From what I can tell the exhaust and header is stock. I'll have to look for leaks but the problem is directly under my ass so it's kind of an issue ....haha ...well, I guess it's not funny because I don't know what the hell's going on.


This is relatively concerning and odd.  scratch 

Have you removed the seat and looked to see if the heat is melting wire insulation or anything like that?  dunno 

There's literally very little UNDER the seat that would generate heat in normal circumstances.



_________________
2008 WR250X
Gearing: 13t - 48t
Power Commander 5 / PC-V
Airbox Door Removed - Flapper glued - AIS removed
FmF Q4
Bridgestone Battlax BT-003rs
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SkylandClyde




PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Wed May 14, 2014 10:54 am

motokid wrote:
SkylandClyde wrote:

From what I can tell the exhaust and header is stock. I'll have to look for leaks but the problem is directly under my ass so it's kind of an issue ....haha ...well, I guess it's not funny because I don't know what the hell's going on.


This is relatively concerning and odd.  scratch 

Have you removed the seat and looked to see if the heat is melting wire insulation or anything like that?  dunno 

There's literally very little UNDER the seat that would generate heat in normal circumstances.



I haven't taken the bike apart when it does get hot because I haven't carried the proper tools. The odd thing is, if the seat gets too hot, I stand up for a few seconds, and the heat goes away. And it hasn't been heating up like this the past few days. Today, I'll take the bike out and see if I can ride around for a bit until it gets hot, immediately take the seat off and see what's going on. I HAVE had the seat off quite a few times and, no, there's no melting wires though. The heat seems to be generating EXACTLY where the flapper once was and where the little door was that was cut off directly under the seat.
 Shog  dunno 

I'm going to purchase temperature stickers also to place on the engine and see if the bike is overheating too. I'm not sure exactly what degree the bike will actually seem to be overheating (any one have an idea?). I'll google it.

Now I'm getting pretty worried about this bike since this isn't normal. I figured the open door up top/no flapper might spit out extra hot air from the engine due to the opening. I kept wondering "how the hell? Are people dealing with this issue or what?" I figured it might have to do with the A/F ratio too. But I was also wondering if everything was getting more heated possibly due to coolant not reaching the engine properly. *sigh* I may have to take this bike to someone. At this point, I'm even considering trading it in for a new WR250R. This is beginning to be a real pain in the ass. No pun intended.

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SkylandClyde




PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Wed May 14, 2014 10:58 am

4play wrote:
SkylandClyde wrote:
So, after writing Motosport about questions regarding installing a 290 big bore kit, how I wanted the best "all arounder" sort of bike (quick, fun, adventuring, nice 0-60mph, kick-around, just a nice all around to put a smile on my face; knowing this was going to be the beginning of my supermoto route) I received a response back. Here's the response. Any thoughts?

"So in answer to your question the big bore may not be the best option for you. The 290 big bore are notorious for actually falling flat on top end power. It will add quite a bit of low end grunt, but if that was what you were looking for that would be as simple as re gearing your bike. If you are looking for top end gains while not taking a whole lot away from the bottom may even be doing a set of stage 2 hot cams. Stage 2 Hotcams are intended to add top end power onto your bike, which from there if you noticed a huge lack in the bottom end you could add a tooth or 2 on the rear to give you a little more. With the hot cams you will not have to mod anything or have any additional maintenance (though it couldn't hurt to throw a new cam chain in as you install the hot cams). Also if you go with a big bore later on the hot cams will help counteract the lack of top end that a 290 kit will give you. Another option is you can do hot cams to add top end and then also do a high compression piston so that it will add a little extra low end grunt onto the bike. Those two mods are only going to cost around $700 (US currency) generally speaking and will make a huge difference in how the bike performs and add a good amount of power throughout the power band. I hope this helps you with your bike."  

I'd really like to see the camshaft claim backed up with a dyno chart. I've seen pipes, airbox & tuners dyno 25-27hp (there was one magic dyno that claimed 31 HP), 280 or 290 kits ~5-6hp more & 306 kits with ported heads dyno 4-6hp more than the big bore alone. Sisneros managed a couple more HP (40hp) on a 306 with his ported head cam.
Travis at Thumper Racing did some dyno work recommended a Crower cam for a little more umph.
Interestingly Travis recommended the stock header over the power bomb.

My 306 is ready to install, I may get it in the bike this week.


DEFINITELY get back on here and let us know how everything went. I'm REAL interested in hearing how this is working out for you. If at all possible, shoot a little video if you can. That would be fantastic. There's no videos on youtube of a 306cc; only 290's, and even they are "eh". The only person I've seen on youtube that has a 290cc and shows off the engine, the sound, etc, is the guy from Accidental Broadcast ++. He's a pretty good watch. Interesting guy haha.

I didn't think this email made complete sense either. I looked up Hot Cams for the WR250R and couldn't find anything at all. Not even on MotoSports site! Kinda odd to suggest something that's non-existent. Or maybe I'm missing something?
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motokid
Moderator
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PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Wed May 14, 2014 11:08 am

SkylandClyde wrote:
motokid wrote:
SkylandClyde wrote:

From what I can tell the exhaust and header is stock. I'll have to look for leaks but the problem is directly under my ass so it's kind of an issue ....haha ...well, I guess it's not funny because I don't know what the hell's going on.


This is relatively concerning and odd.  scratch 

Have you removed the seat and looked to see if the heat is melting wire insulation or anything like that?  dunno 

There's literally very little UNDER the seat that would generate heat in normal circumstances.



I haven't taken the bike apart when it does get hot because I haven't carried the proper tools. The odd thing is, if the seat gets too hot, I stand up for a few seconds, and the heat goes away. And it hasn't been heating up like this the past few days. Today, I'll take the bike out and see if I can ride around for a bit until it gets hot, immediately take the seat off and see what's going on. I HAVE had the seat off quite a few times and, no, there's no melting wires though. The heat seems to be generating EXACTLY where the flapper once was and where the little door was that was cut off directly under the seat.
 Shog  dunno 

I'm going to purchase temperature stickers also to place on the engine and see if the bike is overheating too. I'm not sure exactly what degree the bike will actually seem to be overheating (any one have an idea?). I'll google it.

Now I'm getting pretty worried about this bike since this isn't normal. I figured the open door up top/no flapper might spit out extra hot air from the engine due to the opening. I kept wondering "how the hell? Are people dealing with this issue or what?" I figured it might have to do with the A/F ratio too. But I was also wondering if everything was getting more heated possibly due to coolant not reaching the engine properly. *sigh* I may have to take this bike to someone. At this point, I'm even considering trading it in for a new WR250R. This is beginning to be a real pain in the ass. No pun intended.




The opening under the seat is an intake.
As in "cool air intake" for the engine.

No hot air should be coming out of that as it works the opposite. Or should work the opposite.

Any air under the seat should be getting pulled into airbox through the snorkle opening.

If anything that should "cool" the seating area rather than heat it up as fresh air gets pulled into engine through that part of bike.



* cool is a relative term there..... just saying


After years of posting here I've never seen anyone complain about the seat getting hot.

Hot legs, hard seat, but not hot seat.


Any chance you got a hemorrhoid problem?  get the f out  :hmmm:  lol! 

_________________
2008 WR250X
Gearing: 13t - 48t
Power Commander 5 / PC-V
Airbox Door Removed - Flapper glued - AIS removed
FmF Q4
Bridgestone Battlax BT-003rs
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SkylandClyde




PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Wed May 14, 2014 5:47 pm

motokid wrote:
SkylandClyde wrote:
motokid wrote:
SkylandClyde wrote:

From what I can tell the exhaust and header is stock. I'll have to look for leaks but the problem is directly under my ass so it's kind of an issue ....haha ...well, I guess it's not funny because I don't know what the hell's going on.


This is relatively concerning and odd.  scratch 

Have you removed the seat and looked to see if the heat is melting wire insulation or anything like that?  dunno 

There's literally very little UNDER the seat that would generate heat in normal circumstances.



I haven't taken the bike apart when it does get hot because I haven't carried the proper tools. The odd thing is, if the seat gets too hot, I stand up for a few seconds, and the heat goes away. And it hasn't been heating up like this the past few days. Today, I'll take the bike out and see if I can ride around for a bit until it gets hot, immediately take the seat off and see what's going on. I HAVE had the seat off quite a few times and, no, there's no melting wires though. The heat seems to be generating EXACTLY where the flapper once was and where the little door was that was cut off directly under the seat.
 Shog  dunno 

I'm going to purchase temperature stickers also to place on the engine and see if the bike is overheating too. I'm not sure exactly what degree the bike will actually seem to be overheating (any one have an idea?). I'll google it.

Now I'm getting pretty worried about this bike since this isn't normal. I figured the open door up top/no flapper might spit out extra hot air from the engine due to the opening. I kept wondering "how the hell? Are people dealing with this issue or what?" I figured it might have to do with the A/F ratio too. But I was also wondering if everything was getting more heated possibly due to coolant not reaching the engine properly. *sigh* I may have to take this bike to someone. At this point, I'm even considering trading it in for a new WR250R. This is beginning to be a real pain in the ass. No pun intended.




The opening under the seat is an intake.
As in "cool air intake" for the engine.

No hot air should be coming out of that as it works the opposite. Or should work the opposite.

Any air under the seat should be getting pulled into airbox through the snorkle opening.

If anything that should "cool" the seating area rather than heat it up as fresh air gets pulled into engine through that part of bike.



* cool is a relative term there..... just saying


After years of posting here I've never seen anyone complain about the seat getting hot.

Hot legs, hard seat, but not hot seat.


Any chance you got a hemorrhoid problem?   get the f out  :hmmm:  lol! 


 poser2 YEAH YEAH ...no hemorrhoid problems here! Hahaha ...that's exactly why I'm puzzled: there should be cooler air, not warmer. Like I said, next time the seat gets heated up, I'm immediately pulling over and seeing what's wrong. I'm actually leaving to a Yamaha dealer in a few (not like my bike is warrantied or anything anyway but whatever) anyway, so I'm gonna ask them for their thoughts. I'm even more worried since everyone here is as puzzled as I am. It's DIRECTLY under the seat, that's for certain.

What a pain.

I really am considering selling this one off and buying a newer one and tossing all the upgrades I have on the newer version. Seems a bit silly to do though. I'd like the next purchase to be a higher cc bike. There's a Husky/KTM/Kawasaki dealer RIGHT down the road from me. There's a Yamaha dealer too but, holy crap, they're thieves in the night and over charge the crap out of EVERYTHING. I don't see myself looking at another low maintenance/250cc with this kind of reliability (mine might not be the best example at this point, however). I'd like to stick with Yamaha.

If I find out any information on what the hell's going on, I'll post here. Hopefully it's something small. woohoo BOOM 
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SkylandClyde




PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Wed May 14, 2014 10:14 pm

No coolant issues. Checked out all the lines and everything's hooked up properly. Couldn't make it to the Yamaha dealer today but I will tomorrow. I did call them and they too said "that makes no sense". This is getting really weird talking to people about this ...but it's obviously a problem that needs to be checked out before something like the bike explodes or something. Looks like I'm stumping everyone! No "burning" issues on the bike today - although I only rode it to the car wash.
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YZEtc

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PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Thu May 15, 2014 6:37 am

I wouldn't be surprised if you're merely feeling the hot air coming off the radiator that sits in front of you.
What kind of trousers do you wear while riding?

Whatever you discover, be sure to come back here and spill the beans as the typical scenario is that somebody asks a question containing a mystery, and then, POOF!, he falls off the edge of the Earth and we never hear the results.
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GT-250

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PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Thu May 15, 2014 6:59 am

Without being able to actually look at the bike in question, the only plausible theory that i can think of is that there may be a problem of some sort with the AIS system. The AIS is an electronically controlled solenoid valve that basically allows "fresh" air to be drawn from a port in the airbox and "injected" into the exhaust header pipe. This is designed to occur only under certain closed throttle / de-acceleration conditions - in which there is a "negative" pressure in the exhaust header to help draw the air in. So what i could suggest is that if the valve was faulty / stuck open, then it could possibly be allowing the exhaust gasses to be forced into the airbox during any open throttle / acceleration conditions.


The only part of this theory that maybe doesn't add up is that if there was a fair level of exhaust gas entering the airbox via the AIS, then i would expect the engine performance to very noticeably suffer. Also it would be very likely that the foam & oiled air filter would overheat & "smoke-up".


I suppose that it could be possible that the AIS is faulty as mentioned above, but also that the AIS piping is not fitted into the airbox, but instead just open to the "atmosphere" somewhere directly under your seat, thus causing your "hot ass" condition, lol.


Anyway it would / should be pretty straight forward & simple to check out the AIS system to look for this possible cause. You've ruled out hemorrhoids so maybe this is the next best thing to check hey, lol.


Cheers.
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SkylandClyde




PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Thu May 15, 2014 2:00 pm

YZEtc wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if you're merely feeling the hot air coming off the radiator that sits in front of you.
What kind of trousers do you wear while riding?

Whatever you discover, be sure to come back here and spill the beans as the typical scenario is that somebody asks a question containing a mystery, and then, POOF!, he falls off the edge of the Earth and we never hear the results.

It's definitely not from the radiator. I took the bike apart yesterday to even seen if there might've been a line jammed up going to the radiator and maybe the bike wasn't getting enough coolant or whatever ..pretty much anything I could think of that might be "out of place" or disconnected. Everything is connected properly. But the head is coming DIRECTLY from underneath the seat. I had been riding around with my girlfriend on back and, when we pulled over, I told her "check out the seat. I told you it gets real hot". Just from her putting her hand on it she's like "wow, that's really warm! A lot warmer than where I'm sitting!" She knows nothing of bikes and even she rested her hand and was able to point out the obvious.
 budah BOOM 

I had her practicing on my bike in an empty parking lot the other day. I stood right next to her (she has her permit now) and I had her do basic "walking the bike" from one end to the other. Safety courses are in early June but she's eager to play around a bit (something new to do and have fun with also). After about 20 minutes the bike turned off and the fan turned on to cool the bike down. Before that the bike had been sitting for at least a half hour. I don't know I'm having so many heating issues. Any clue on why it would do that?

As for what I'm wearing, I've been "getting up and going". The only thing I'm wearing are normal clothes. 100% of the time I'm wearing jeans. I'm not wearing anything fancy or built for riding.

I'm starting to wonder if I'm just abusing the bike too much. I normally ride 65mph nearly the entire time I'm on the bike. I live in the sticks/small towns through NJ and PA, my PA town doesn't even have a police department, so those who race around race around, just to go fast. I do stop every hour or so. I've done 6-8 hour days where I'm just riding several times a week. I just started work up again but, even so, I'm still having heat issues.

Not looking forward to when the weather gets any hotter.

I'll keep everyone posted regardless of what happens. I didn't realize this would puzzle so many people.

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SkylandClyde




PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Thu May 15, 2014 2:16 pm

GT-250 wrote:
Without being able to actually look at the bike in question, the only plausible theory that i can think of is that there may be a problem of some sort with the AIS system. The AIS is an electronically controlled solenoid valve that basically allows "fresh" air to be drawn from a port in the airbox and "injected" into the exhaust header pipe. This is designed to occur only under certain closed throttle / de-acceleration conditions - in which there is a "negative" pressure in the exhaust header to help draw the air in. So what i could suggest is that if the valve was faulty / stuck open, then it could possibly be allowing the exhaust gasses to be forced into the airbox during any open throttle / acceleration conditions.


The only part of this theory that maybe doesn't add up is that if there was a fair level of exhaust gas entering the airbox via the AIS, then i would expect the engine performance to very noticeably suffer. Also it would be very likely that the foam & oiled air filter would overheat & "smoke-up".


I suppose that it could be possible that the AIS is faulty as mentioned above, but also that the AIS piping is not fitted into the airbox, but instead just open to the "atmosphere" somewhere directly under your seat, thus causing your "hot ass" condition, lol.


Anyway it would / should be pretty straight forward & simple to check out the AIS system to look for this possible cause. You've ruled out hemorrhoids so maybe this is the next best thing to check hey, lol.


Cheers.

Well, the AIS has been removed. The kid before me did the whole AIS removal/smog kit thing. The right parts are on there. The diaphragm and flapper valve was removed. The only negative thing I've found on the bike was soon after I made the purchase and looked in the airbox: if you look at Rick Ramsey's page, you can see the flapper valve (little flat black plastic piece) with two additional small plastic pieced cut off. The bigger "little" piece was dropped in the airbox and left there. Who knows how long that's been in there, honestly. At that point it could've even been the entire 4,200 miles before I obtained the bike. Makes me wonder where that other little piece went...

I also checked out the exhaust. To me, it seems completely original. There weren't any broken parts or anything cracked. I was going to take it off and, just by how "connected" the exhaust felt, it was obviously never taken off before. The only thing missing on the exhaust is one of the screws from the exhaust tip cover (there's two screws instead of three). But that's just for protection.

 "Hot ass situation" is exactly how I described it to a dealer yesterday, haha. I had to explain it over the phone to two different people. One of them just laughed when I said:

".... look man, I don't know any other way to explain it, but whenever I'm sitting on the bike for a while my seat gets hot and it burns my ass ....I have to stand up for a few seconds; it seems to cool the seat down a bit; I ride around some more and it's fine ...but it's definitely getting hot and often."  Shog 

When I explained this to the next guy, he said "that makes no sense at all". But he offered to quickly check it out if I stop in. They told me they're three weeks behind (there's not many bike dealers around here) so they can't go crazy. And they charge $125 an hour and told me they'd have to wait to see if it even gets hot -- and they also said that's a lot of money to just "see" if the bike gets hot. I agree.  baldy  baldy  baldy  baldy  baldy  baldy  baldy 

I ruled out the coolant issue. I was thinking maybe even the battery was getting crazy hot (which is unlikely and makes no sense anyway due to where the heat is actually coming from). I stood there staring at where the heat comes from (at least where I feel it...) for a few minutes yesterday. Talk about going nuts.

I'll have to just somehow ride the bike and purposely get it hot and go from there. Ugh.
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motokid
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PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Thu May 15, 2014 4:06 pm

It's not because you're riding the bike too hard. That's just silly.

I used to race motorcycles. In July and August. Never had my seat get hot. I used to do full hour mini-endurance races. You're not riding that hard.

I once did a supermoto ride in August. Bunch of KTM's and Aprilias and Suzukis and Hondas. All bikes with more HP than my little X.
Full-ass throttle for hours just trying to keep up. I had on full leathers. There was no issue with the seat getting hot.

I've got an X with AIS removed and flapper glued.

Riding hard ain't the issue here.




_________________
2008 WR250X
Gearing: 13t - 48t
Power Commander 5 / PC-V
Airbox Door Removed - Flapper glued - AIS removed
FmF Q4
Bridgestone Battlax BT-003rs
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oic0

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PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Sat May 17, 2014 8:58 am

SkylandClyde wrote:
YZEtc wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if you're merely feeling the hot air coming off the radiator that sits in front of you.
What kind of trousers do you wear while riding?

Whatever you discover, be sure to come back here and spill the beans as the typical scenario is that somebody asks a question containing a mystery, and then, POOF!, he falls off the edge of the Earth and we never hear the results.

It's definitely not from the radiator. I took the bike apart yesterday to even seen if there might've been a line jammed up going to the radiator and maybe the bike wasn't getting enough coolant or whatever ..pretty much anything I could think of that might be "out of place" or disconnected. Everything is connected properly. But the head is coming DIRECTLY from underneath the seat. I had been riding around with my girlfriend on back and, when we pulled over, I told her "check out the seat. I told you it gets real hot". Just from her putting her hand on it she's like "wow, that's really warm! A lot warmer than where I'm sitting!" She knows nothing of bikes and even she rested her hand and was able to point out the obvious.
 budah BOOM 

I had her practicing on my bike in an empty parking lot the other day. I stood right next to her (she has her permit now) and I had her do basic "walking the bike" from one end to the other. Safety courses are in early June but she's eager to play around a bit (something new to do and have fun with also). After about 20 minutes the bike turned off and the fan turned on to cool the bike down. Before that the bike had been sitting for at least a half hour. I don't know I'm having so many heating issues. Any clue on why it would do that?

As for what I'm wearing, I've been "getting up and going". The only thing I'm wearing are normal clothes. 100% of the time I'm wearing jeans. I'm not wearing anything fancy or built for riding.

I'm starting to wonder if I'm just abusing the bike too much. I normally ride 65mph nearly the entire time I'm on the bike. I live in the sticks/small towns through NJ and PA, my PA town doesn't even have a police department, so those who race around race around, just to go fast. I do stop every hour or so. I've done 6-8 hour days where I'm just riding several times a week. I just started work up again but, even so, I'm still having heat issues.

Not looking forward to when the weather gets any hotter.

I'll keep everyone posted regardless of what happens. I didn't realize this would puzzle so many people.


The only time my fan comes on is when im riding slow. Even then, I have sat in creeping traffic and not had the bike overheat. It just toasts your leg by blowing  its radiator heat on you. I've also held it at 70-80mph for hours on numerous occasions.

Hurry up and get some gear. Your noob period is your most likely time to wreck and when you need it the most. I wear my mesh and perforated leather jacket on even the hottest days. When you're moving it makes little difference.
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SkylandClyde




PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Sun May 18, 2014 6:21 pm



[/quote]

The only time my fan comes on is when im riding slow. Even then, I have sat in creeping traffic and not had the bike overheat. It just toasts your leg by blowing  its radiator heat on you. I've also held it at 70-80mph for hours on numerous occasions.

Hurry up and get some gear. Your noob period is your most likely time to wreck and when you need it the most. I wear my mesh and perforated leather jacket on even the hottest days. When you're moving it makes little difference.[/quote]

I figured it made no sense at all pushing the bike hard (for what it is. In no way am I pretending its a "rocket").

You ain't lyin! I'm actually shopping around and plan on picking up a pair of dainese 4-stroke evo's. They look awesome and seem to have tons of protection. The whole jeans/hoody thing kinda makes me uncomfortable when I'm going over 70mph around turns. I'm actually starting to FEEL like an asshole being a bit wreakless without proper gear. I've been lucky so far.

The bike heated under the seat today. The only thing I did that was out of the norm was I just fired up the bike and immediately went ...and kept on going as fast as possible. I didn't have a screw driver on me so I couldn't rip the seat off really quick. It's the first day the seat has heated up (I'm only feeling worse reading everyones responses) since about a week or more. It wasn't very long but it was definitely happening. (not long because I stood up.) It's been pretty cold over here. Pretty much all my theories of why there could be heat under the seat has been completely thrown out the window. Even the theories I knew were bs have been proven wrong (maybe it's too hot out ...maybe I shouldn't ride 65-75mph for hours on end ...maybe the coolant isn't attached to anything ...)

It's too bad I don't have one of those heat-guns that actually measures the temperature when you point it at a source. It is DIRECTLY under the seat though. I can put my hand on it and it's beyond obvious. Unless the heat is generating from elsewhere and just HAPPENS to be coming to that spot -- which seems unlikely.

I have the next few days off. I'm going to purposely try and ride around and see what I can do and take off the seat as soon as I feel heat.

And the bike has only shut off and the fan went on that one time. It's never done that before and I've ridden highway-speeds all day for over 8 hours nearly straight. The shut off/fan on was even MORE confusing, like I said, because we were only "walking the bike" for about 15-20 minutes. Before that, the bike was off for at least a half hour.

I'm extremely surprised I'm the only one having any of these issues. Figures!
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oic0

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PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Sun May 18, 2014 8:02 pm

Just take the seat off and let it idle until you figure out where the heat is coming from. If it gets hot riding, it will get hot idling.
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nyc_bob




PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Tue May 20, 2014 8:11 am

oic0 wrote:
Just take the seat off and let it idle until you figure out where the heat is coming from. If it gets hot riding, it will get hot idling.

+1
Seat comes off with one wrench in 60-90 seconds tops. Just 2 bolts under the rear fender, lift it a bit and slide it backwards.

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motokid
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PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Tue May 20, 2014 8:45 am

Hell, as long as you're not stunting or drag racing or anything silly, you could remove the two bolts holding the seat down, then ride it like you're going to church through school zones, and when you feel the heat coming on just click into neutral (come to complete stop), hop off bike and pull seat off while bike is still running.


_________________
2008 WR250X
Gearing: 13t - 48t
Power Commander 5 / PC-V
Airbox Door Removed - Flapper glued - AIS removed
FmF Q4
Bridgestone Battlax BT-003rs
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SkylandClyde




PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Fri May 23, 2014 1:15 am

Funny you should mention leaving the bolts off the seat and just flipping it off when the bike gets hot because, when I purchased the bike, I noticed there were no bolts! Now I'm wondering even more ....hmmm.

I just tried uploading some images but I can't figure it out. And this is the 3rd time I'm posting this so I'm not trying again, haha. I took the subframe off tonight. The previous owner painted it and the stunt-bar he welded on black. It's always looked slightly "off" to me. (Fine Arts grad. Whatever.) I painted that baby up and, bam, looks great ..sitting in my kitchen! I painted all the fairings too. I like the bikes colors but, hey, I'm picky. I'm really digging the new look and can't wait until it's put back together. Only problem is the black/blue seat is going to look stupid compared to the white/charcoal-ish-smoke color. Next mods are probably lowering link and seat concepts seat ...and probably new handlebars.

Unfortunately, taking the subframe and never have done it before I got a little careless and managed to break a small connector up front. There's a small piece under the clip that looks broke. I couldn't find the piece. There's also a small, thin hose that comes from what looks like on top of the engine or connected to the throttle body that leads up under the tank ..that's attached to nothing. Starting up the engine led to the bike shutting itself off and a code #14 on my gauge. I wonder if that stands for all the times I've found or done something stupid on the bike? tough tough 

My Dainese 4-stroke Evo gloves and new silver/mirror shield for my Icon Alliance helmet is on its way. I best move my butt and get this bike in operating condition before everything!
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SkylandClyde




PostSubject: Re: New bike; new problems! Or are there?   Fri May 23, 2014 1:36 am

Welp, found the "little piece" I broke: it was the bottom piece of the pressure sensor:

http://www.yamahapartshouse.com/oemparts/a/yam/500461b1f8700209bc7954f5/intake

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