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 Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something

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cbennett5199




PostSubject: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:00 am

Love the new bike in just about every way. I am curious, though, if it's typical that these guys have a pretty loud airbox and/or kind of engine bark. Noise coming out of stock pipe sounds uneventful, normal. I like to hear my engines, but want to make sure that the wr250r tends to growl a little louder than let's say a klx250, crf250l, and even my stocker drz400.

Appreciate it, and look forward to reading through this forum to pick up good info.
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motokid
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PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:19 am

cbennett5199 wrote:
Love the new bike in just about every way. I am curious, though, if it's typical that these guys have a pretty loud airbox and/or kind of engine bark.




cbennett5199 wrote:
Noise coming out of stock pipe sounds uneventful, normal. I like to hear my engines, but want to make sure that the wr250r tends to growl a little louder than let's say a klx250, crf250l, and even my stocker drz400.

Not sure what you're asking here. These two parts seem to contradict each other.

Do you think your wr is louder than it should be?  dunno 

Or are you asking if it could be louder?  scratch 

Is your bike 100% stock? Did you just buy it brand new from a dealer?





_________________
2008 WR250X
Gearing: 13t - 48t
Power Commander 5 / PC-V
Airbox Door Removed - Flapper glued - AIS removed
FmF Q4
Bridgestone Battlax BT-003rs
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YZEtc

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PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:54 am

Reads like a translation from a foreign language.

Stock, a WR-250R or WR-250X is pretty quiet as far as intake and exhaust sound goes.
The bike is loaded with all of the typical intake and exhaust silencing so it will pass EPA regulations for emissions of noise.

If you want more noise, remove the airbox top, airbox door, or both, install any aftermarket muffler, and buy a fuel programmer.
I just advise not to use a muffler that's obnoxious.
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martin_nj




PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:50 am

YZEtc wrote:
I just advise not to use a muffler that's obnoxious.
are you able to list some of the more commonly available obnoxious mufflers ?
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YZEtc

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PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:06 am

Any muffler that you'd find on a closed course.
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rsteiger

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PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:08 am

Before you go swapping things around too much and spending a lot of money I would advise you to take stock of what type of riding you do.

If it is trail and around town riding I probably would change the gearing. The cheap way to do this (assuming your bike is stock) is to replace the 13 tooth c/s sprocket with a 12 tooth c/s sprocket. You can stick with the same length chain and if you don't like it you can always put the 13 tooth back on.

If you do like it then I would recommend going with a 13 or 14 tooth front sprocket and a 47 or 50 tooth rear when you swap out the chain. This would give you some longer life on the front c/s sprocket in the future.

There have also been reports of the chain slider being worn out when you use a 12 tooth c/s sprocket but after reading these and many other reports of people not having any issues I suspect there is something else at play besides the c/s sprocket - probably chain tension as well.

If you are looking to blast down the highway at top speed or ride in the desert flats then you may want to look into modifying the intake and exhaust along with some type of engine programmer like the FMF or the Power Commander 5. This will give you a nice little pick up on the power of the bike but generally you will loose some low end grunt. That low end grunt comes in handy when riding tight single track but not so much for flat out riding.

I went the intake, exhaust, and programmer route on my WRR a little after I bought it. I had some fun doing it too. But now I am pretty much back to stock since most of my riding does not involve flat out speed - I have my Beta 520 RR for that if I need it.

When I put the stock exhaust back on along with a Power Commander map for a stock bike I was impressed with the amount of low end grunt that I got back. As best that I can tell I gave up about 4 or 5 mph on my top speed but for the type of riding that I am doing with the WRR this really doesn't matter to me.
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SLOWRIDER




PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:34 am

rsteiger wrote:
Before you go swapping things around too much and spending a lot of money I would advise you to take stock of what type of riding you do.

If it is trail and around town riding I probably would change the gearing.  The cheap way to do this (assuming your bike is stock) is to replace the 13 tooth c/s sprocket with a 12 tooth c/s sprocket.  You can stick with the same length chain and if you don't like it you can always put the 13 tooth back on.

If you do like it then I would recommend going with a 13 or 14 tooth front sprocket and a 47 or 50 tooth rear when you swap out the chain.  This would give you some longer life on the front c/s sprocket in the future.

There have also been reports of the chain slider being worn out when you use a 12 tooth c/s sprocket but after reading these and many other reports of people not having any issues I suspect there is something else at play besides the c/s sprocket - probably chain tension as well.

If you are looking to blast down the highway at top speed or ride in the desert flats then you may want to look into modifying the intake and exhaust along with some type of engine programmer like the FMF or the Power Commander 5.  This will give you a nice little pick up on the power of the bike but generally you will loose some low end grunt.  That low end grunt comes in handy when riding tight single track but not so much for flat out riding.

I went the intake, exhaust, and programmer route on my WRR a little after I bought it.  I had some fun doing it too.  But now I am pretty much back to stock since most of my riding does not involve flat out speed - I have my Beta 520 RR for that if I need it.  

When I put the stock exhaust back on along with a Power Commander map for a stock bike I was impressed with the amount of low end grunt that I got back.  As best that I can tell I gave up about 4 or 5 mph on my top speed but for the type of riding that I am doing with the WRR this really doesn't matter to me.

Is it worth investing in a Power Commander if I have a modified stock muffler (removed the cat. converter) but I want to open up the intake???

Would I notice any difference?
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Jäger
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PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:35 am

The "I want a noisier bike" thing always has me scratching my head a little.

I will cheerfully admit that I really enjoy listening to 70's and 80's two stroke motocross bikes on the pipe.  Always loved that sound.  But that's on a closed course.

Even with the stock exhaust on a WRR, I wear custom moulded ear protection while riding.  Yesterday on a short 20 mile trip, I forgot them, and after getting out of town and on the highway it was as annoying as hell.  To the point I pulled over and put a couple of pieces of butt buffer in my ears until I got home.  A lot of perceived noise has to do with wind noise in your helmet of course, but I still don't want bike noise filling my ears when riding for enjoyment.  If and when they perfect the electric dual sport, I'll be first in line to buy one.  There's a guy with an electric motorcycle down the road a ways - not a serious motorcycle of any sort, a town commuter - when he goes by the house and I'm out in the yard with the dogs it startles you because you don't even know he's there until you hear the wind and his tires.  No noiser than a bicycle.

My take on exhaust/programmer mods, although I've never modified my exhaust and have only rode one WRR with modded exhaust/programmer, is that unless you are riding the bike hard and aggressively much of the time on either trails or the highway, it's really not worth the expense for the gains.  Big Dog mentions on his blog/website that his exhaust remains untouched and he pretty much rides that bike to the corners of North America each year.  Others have done the exhaust/programmer mods and returned to stock.  And others have done those mods and think they're worth every penny.  To each their own, obviously.  

12, 13, and 14 tooth CS sprockets... The "chain eats seal guard" is perhaps the "what kind of oil should I use" discussion of the WRR world.

Popular theories are that it is because of a) using a 12 tooth CS sprocket, and/or b) having your chain too tight.  Having been an involuntary experimenter with this issue, and having eaten through a brand new seal guard in about 20 miles or so, my suspicion is that chain tension at least can certainly contribute.  But in my case it appeared that a worn chain did the almost immediate damage on the brand new seal guard, even though the chain was adjusted to proper spec as per the amended chain tensioning procedure from Yamaha.  And the chain wasn't that badly worn to visual inspection either.  

I read somewhere on another forum that somebody installed a camera somewhere on a WRR and you could really see the chain following the CS sprocket and curling up as it left the sprocket under deceleration. That would be interesting if you had similar video from similar motorcycles to compare it to.

I can say that since I've gone to a 14/49 setup, wear on the seal guard has really slowed to a crawl compared to before.  I do and always have checked chain tension while lubing the chain, which is generally at least once a week.  If I was going to modify the stock gearing, I'd advise going to a 14 tooth CS sprocket while doing so, unless you wanted single track gearing so low you couldn't make it work with the rear sprocket you wanted.  My theory is it can't hurt and it probably helps where the seal guard is concerned.

BTW, anyone know why Yamaha decided to call it a "seal guard"?
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dhally

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PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:42 pm

My intake and exhaust are stock. Well, the PO had drilled holes in the baffle in the exhaust and I plugged them up. It is still pretty loud as far as I'm concerned. I have to use earplugs or it tires me out pretty fast. I do have an aluminum skid plat so I suppose part of the noise could be from that.

To each his own, but I am embarrassed when I hear a loud bike coming up a trail, mine or another rider's. I feel it makes the entire sport look (sound?) bad to other recreational users.
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cbennett5199




PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:45 pm

When I made the original post, I guess I wasn't that clear. The bike is a bone stock 2013 with about 300 miles on it. Have changed the oil twice already to assist the break-in process.

What I'm trying to figure out is whether my wrr's engine noise is pretty normal. The noise that I'm referring to sounds like it's mostly coming from the top of the engine. Hard to describe other than it just sounds like a lot of racket, at least compared to my other current bikes (drz400s, dl1000). From what I can remember, compared to the variety of other bikes I've owned, the wrr's engine noise sounds relatively loud. It doesn't sound like bad valves or something more serious. I'm especially aware of it when I'm exploring different neighborhoods in Portland, looking at potential real estate purchases. I don't like bikes really disturb people, especially in their neighborhoods. I find myself shifting into a higher gear just to keep the revs lower. I rarely wear ear plugs when I ride it, and my helmet is kind of cheap. I do have a skid plate on it, but I don't think this is the primary reason for the noise.

I've read some threads on advrider and thumpertalk which make me think that this is a typical wrr sound. I listed to some youtube clips that were posted by folks with similar questions. From what I could hear on a youtube video, my engine seemed to sound pretty much the same as theirs. I'm not fretting it too much, but am curious to see if other wrr owners have had the same questions.

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martin_nj




PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:46 pm

cbennett5199 wrote:

What I'm trying to figure out is whether my wrr's engine noise is pretty normal.
yes it is normal. as long as you put enough oil back in there. then it is not normal.
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motokid
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PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:34 pm

Skid plates do increase engine noise form the rider's perspective quite a bit from what I've read.


_________________
2008 WR250X
Gearing: 13t - 48t
Power Commander 5 / PC-V
Airbox Door Removed - Flapper glued - AIS removed
FmF Q4
Bridgestone Battlax BT-003rs
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beefcakemorris

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PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:31 pm

The noise level from my flat land skid plate is horrible, but the protection is well worth it. I ended up putting 2 full strips of dynamt down and that helped alot. I am just hoping it lasts for a good while.
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rsteiger

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PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Wed Aug 13, 2014 5:48 pm

SLOWRIDER wrote:
rsteiger wrote:
Before you go swapping things around too much and spending a lot of money I would advise you to take stock of what type of riding you do.

If it is trail and around town riding I probably would change the gearing.  The cheap way to do this (assuming your bike is stock) is to replace the 13 tooth c/s sprocket with a 12 tooth c/s sprocket.  You can stick with the same length chain and if you don't like it you can always put the 13 tooth back on.

If you do like it then I would recommend going with a 13 or 14 tooth front sprocket and a 47 or 50 tooth rear when you swap out the chain.  This would give you some longer life on the front c/s sprocket in the future.

There have also been reports of the chain slider being worn out when you use a 12 tooth c/s sprocket but after reading these and many other reports of people not having any issues I suspect there is something else at play besides the c/s sprocket - probably chain tension as well.

If you are looking to blast down the highway at top speed or ride in the desert flats then you may want to look into modifying the intake and exhaust along with some type of engine programmer like the FMF or the Power Commander 5.  This will give you a nice little pick up on the power of the bike but generally you will loose some low end grunt.  That low end grunt comes in handy when riding tight single track but not so much for flat out riding.

I went the intake, exhaust, and programmer route on my WRR a little after I bought it.  I had some fun doing it too.  But now I am pretty much back to stock since most of my riding does not involve flat out speed - I have my Beta 520 RR for that if I need it.  

When I put the stock exhaust back on along with a Power Commander map for a stock bike I was impressed with the amount of low end grunt that I got back.  As best that I can tell I gave up about 4 or 5 mph on my top speed but for the type of riding that I am doing with the WRR this really doesn't matter to me.

Is it worth investing in a Power Commander if I have a modified stock muffler (removed the cat. converter) but I want to open up the intake???

Would I notice any difference?

If you found a used PCV cheap I may play around with it.

I went full bore on mine to extract a few more HP from the top end and was pretty successful with it. But looking back I think the best bang for the $ was changing the sprockets and chain.

I have actually been thinking about pulling the PCV and putting back on the EXUP valve and other hardware I have off the bike. I have already opened up the intake doing the Ultimate Airbox mod so I won't be changing that. The reason I am thinking about pulling the EXUP is some issues I have been having starting the bike after it has gotten wet. The PCV connector to the TPS does not have the water shield that the stock connector has and I suspect that I am getting water in that point which may be giving false TPS data to the ECM. For now I will be adding a homemade shield and see how that works.

At the end of the day the bike does run well in stock trim with revised gearing. Many WRR aficionados will play around with suspension and other bit but leave the motor alone with no issues. If I were to do it over again I think I may have gone that route rather than spend an obscene amount of money pursuing 3 or 4 extra hp at the sacrifice of low end torque. Then again that is just my opinion.
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SLOWRIDER




PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Wed Aug 13, 2014 6:11 pm

Why would you need to reinstall the EXUP valve???

Thanks for the good advice
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Biglake




PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:34 pm

What did you do to your bike that hurt the low end tq? was the programmer tuned right?

I gained power at low revs with the fmf q4, opened up air box and fmf programmer, you dont give up bottom end just because you gained top end hp power.

If some one tells you the exup boost bottom power they dont know what they're talking about!

That valve closes at the rpms they do sound checks at and is open at low rpms lol.

The loudest straight through pipes have the best low rpm power but are too loud for me and most people.
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cbennett5199




PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:04 pm

Appreciate the responses. Here are a couple threads from ThumperTalk and advRider that talked about what I think I'm also hearing.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=985869
http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/556195-wr250r-engine-noise/
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rsteiger

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PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:12 am

SLOWRIDER wrote:
Why would you need to reinstall the EXUP valve???

Thanks for the good advice

Biglake wrote:
What did you do to your bike that hurt the low end tq? was the programmer tuned right?

I gained power at low revs with the fmf q4, opened up air box and fmf programmer, you dont give up bottom end just because you gained top end hp power.

If some one tells you the exup boost bottom power they dont know what they're talking about!

That valve closes at the rpms they do sound checks at and is open at low rpms lol.

The loudest straight through pipes have the best low rpm power but are too loud for me and most people.

I had my bike Dynotuned with a GSXR 1000 can. Now it maybe that the can may have been part of the reason for the low end loss. When I pull up my fuel map from the dynorun and compare to the FMF maps on the Power Commander website I see substantially more fuel being added at the upper RPM's and substantially more fuel being taken away at the lower RPM's. All of this was done based on a A/F ratio that made the best HP on the bike. Have not messed with an FMF Q4 but based on the fuel maps I would say they do flow differently and possibly maybe reduce the low end loss that I saw.

I have been thinking about adding the EXUP based on what I have heard is an improvement on low end response. Figure one way to find out is to put it back on and see. Again I may not do that depending on how this water shield setup works for me - basically will make the PCV TPS connection look just like the stock one.

One thing I did do on the bike was load a Zero map on the PCV to simulate what the bike would be like if I did not have the Power Commander installed. Best way to sum it up was the bike felt grumpier and the throttle response was not as clean as with the Stock PCV map. Hence the reason I am considering adding the EXUP back to the bike.

There is one nice benefit of the PCV when it comes to the TPS calibration. I have read about many folks complaining about throttle response at low speed and they either play with the CO setting or mechanically calibrate the TPS sensor to fix the problem. The nice thing with the PCV is that calibration is done electronically with the 0% setting applied at closed throttle and 100% setting applied at full throttle. I guess it is a lazy mans approach to calibrating the TPS sensor.
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4play

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PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:47 pm

The PCV only alters the fuel injector pulse the base computer sends out, it does not alter the TPS input to the R2's computer. You can tune around a slightly off TPS to some extent, but it's best to set it correctly. The CO setting you can definitely tune around.
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rsteiger

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PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:14 pm

4play wrote:
The PCV only alters the fuel injector pulse the base computer sends out, it does not alter the TPS input to the R2's computer. You can tune around a slightly off TPS to some extent, but it's best to set it correctly. The CO setting you can definitely tune around.

Thanks!

I assumed that since the TPS signal went to the PCV and then back out to the ECM that the signal was conditioned by the PCV.
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4play

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PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:26 pm

I have no data to back up my butt dyno, but I thought my bike's low end responded very favorably to the GSX can & ultimate airbox mod even without the PCV. I did tweak the TPS to the high end of the tolerance to eliminate a slight off idle stumble. It could have been the improved throttle response, but lofting the front end over a rain rut was definitely easier. Ater installing & playing .with the auto tune, mine took away fuel in way more tables than it added. Mine was not even close to being dangerously lean anywhere with the stock tables.
 I did some reading on the exup & it was engineered to boost lowend torque.
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rsteiger

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PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Fri Aug 15, 2014 5:51 am

4play wrote:
I have no data to back up my butt dyno, but I thought my bike's low end responded very favorably to the GSX can & ultimate airbox mod even without the PCV. I did tweak the TPS to the high end of the tolerance to eliminate a slight off idle stumble. It could have been the improved throttle response, but lofting the front end over a rain rut was definitely easier. Ater installing & playing .with the auto tune, mine took away fuel in way more tables than it added. Mine was not even close to being dangerously lean anywhere with the stock tables.
 I did some reading on the exup & it was engineered to boost lowend torque.

I have been curious about the difference between autotune and dynotune.

I think the advantage with dynotune is that you can get power output feedback on what the bike is doing with the different A/F ratios. But in my case they used a probe in the end of the GSXR can. It seemed like once he found what A/F ratio made the most power he went and used that across the board when setting up the fuel tables. I have the map at home but I seem to remember that at some RPM and throttle positions he was adding as much as 60% fuel - most of these were near WOT and higher RPMS. Most of the fuel take away was at the lower throttle position and RPMs. Guess this would make sense one would see less bottom end torque.

With the autotune you have an O2 sensor sitting in the exhaust stream at the optimal point to measure the A/F ratio. I would imagine that will autotune you get a more precise reading on what the A/F ratio is really like.

I wonder that if you are not getting a good read on the O2 with a probe in the back of the can (remember that the GSXR can is not a straight pipe/packing type muffler but rather has chambers) how bad that can affect your tuning of the bike.

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4play

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PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Fri Aug 15, 2014 4:41 pm

As long as you are not getting air in the system from leaks, reversion or dealing with a cat, your tail pipe readings should be very accurate. I've dyno tuned many cars this way. I chose the auto tune because I knew I would be making changes as I went & I'm not worried about peak numbers. I'm tuning for each gear & I have played with various AF ratio's. I choose not to run leaner than 14-1 & that's at light throttle cruise in the upper gears. Just above idle in the 1st three gears is normally set ~13.4 for crisp throttle response & no on/off transition issues. I have not played with the AP setting, but I'm considering trying a slightly leaner setting an adding some AP to take care of the transition.

 The AT is a fun tool, I check it's trim after a ride or two. Sometimes I accept the changes, sometimes I modify or reject the changes. I get real suspicious on really lean low throttle position numbers thinking that may have been recorded on a long descent..
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rsteiger

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PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Fri Aug 15, 2014 7:14 pm

I went back and looked at the graph from the Dynorun. Looks like he was targeting an A/F ratio of 12.4 across the board.

Seems a tad rich to me.
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4play

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PostSubject: Re: Just bought a 2013 wr250r and am curious about something   Fri Aug 15, 2014 8:44 pm

I've been as rich as 12.5. My perception is I gave up nothing backing off the fuel. I'm still at 13.2-13.4 at WFO to protect the engine running WFO in a long deep sand wash, but I've gradually moved the middle of the curve (cruising range) to 13.8-14 & feel no loss of power.
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