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 "You've come a long way, baby!"

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X-Racer
SpiritWolf15
SheWolf
MeefZah
8 posters
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MeefZah

MeefZah



"You've come a long way, baby!" Empty
PostSubject: "You've come a long way, baby!"   "You've come a long way, baby!" EmptyFri Oct 02, 2009 9:30 am

Not Virginia Slims, but my old 1981 Yamaha XT250 dual sport. Came across this picture while cleaning out my computer files.

6 V electrics, kick start, gawdawful suspension, yet somehow a sweet bike. My 27-year newer WRR is definetely more bad ass, but not any more fun!

"You've come a long way, baby!" XT250
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SheWolf
Alpha Rider
SheWolf



"You've come a long way, baby!" Empty
PostSubject: Re: "You've come a long way, baby!"   "You've come a long way, baby!" EmptyFri Oct 02, 2009 11:57 am

MeefZah wrote:
Not Virginia Slims, but my old 1981 Yamaha XT250 dual sport. Came across this picture while cleaning out my computer files.

6 V electrics, kick start, gawdawful suspension, yet somehow a sweet bike. My 27-year newer WRR is definetely more bad ass, but not any more fun!

"You've come a long way, baby!" XT250


Back on topic... LOL! I had an 82 XT250, very similar. Rode like a tank. My 86 DT was much lighter but I agree, still a lot of fun. thumb

_________________
A wolf's voice echoed down the mountain 'Share the bounty of the hunt with your brothers and sisters, and forever be strong and free.' "You've come a long way, baby!" Wolf_b10
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SpiritWolf15

SpiritWolf15



"You've come a long way, baby!" Empty
PostSubject: Re: "You've come a long way, baby!"   "You've come a long way, baby!" EmptyFri Oct 02, 2009 12:16 pm

Quote :

Yamaha has come a long way, but they have always seemed to be a step ahead of the rest, take the 1982 RD350LC for example, back when everything else was big slow aircooled 4strokes or whimpy AC 2's, they came out with a bike that had so much punch behind it they raced them stock in a class with the big bike and won... Now looke at the WR, FI, LC, 6 gears it's the future and yamaha has once again brought it to us.
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X-Racer

X-Racer



"You've come a long way, baby!" Empty
PostSubject: Re: "You've come a long way, baby!"   "You've come a long way, baby!" EmptyWed Oct 21, 2009 12:44 am

Twenty-six years later my air-cooled, YZ based, wide-ratio, 5-speed, 3.7 gal tanked, 83 IT250K would do circles around the WRR (or a WRF for that matter).

So while we've come a long, way, I'm not so sure it's all been in a positive direction.

...and I had an XT250 and XRs (several) CRs/CRFs, YZFs all through the last ten years. ....and with all the new technology, at some point, to some extent, it all seems to be at diminishing return from a cost/grin-value standpoint.

That ole Yamaha of yours would make me grin just as well as all the model recent bikes in the garage. Riding is riding. Enough said...
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Vinduroman

Vinduroman



"You've come a long way, baby!" Empty
PostSubject: Re: "You've come a long way, baby!"   "You've come a long way, baby!" EmptyFri Oct 23, 2009 9:47 pm

Interesting perspective, X-Racer.

As you can tell from my forum nickname, I too, am interested in vintage (enduro) bikes, so your post piques my curiosity. However, I have been (still am) considering a new bike to add to the others in the garage... and have looked at/researched several of the late model DS bikes.

Mind elaborating on how you feel some of the current bikes have veered off course? Also, in what ways do you feel the IT does things better?

No flamefest intended whatsoever... just interested in hearing your views.
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YZEtc

YZEtc



"You've come a long way, baby!" Empty
PostSubject: Re: "You've come a long way, baby!"   "You've come a long way, baby!" EmptySat Oct 24, 2009 12:12 am

I owned a 1983 IT-250K back in the day, too.
It was light and fast. :)
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X-Racer

X-Racer



"You've come a long way, baby!" Empty
PostSubject: Re: "You've come a long way, baby!"   "You've come a long way, baby!" EmptySat Oct 24, 2009 6:16 pm

Well... In no way would I try to talk anyone out of a new bike. At some point maintainability (or reliability due to overall fatigue) becomes an issue. Currently seven of the eight bikes I own are all newer than 05. The 1999 CR250R being the exception.

I can't say that the IT would do things "Better" necessarily, but certainly as well.It went fast, it went slow, had sufficient bandwidth to run full-out across the desert, or pick it's way through a rock quarry. It came well equipped stock and there was little (if anything) you had to do to it to make it ergonomically friendly. Being a 2-stroke was it's only limitation of being a real good enduro bike (e.g. a longer term more reliable XR).

...and I don't think the manufacturers have necessarily veered off course. M/Cs, more than most things are subject to both innovation and adaptation of technologies that favor safety, rideability and therefore pleasure. Certainly when you look at the prospects of most dirt bikes turning to FI systems it adds another dimension of having to have , or acquire knowledge and adds another potential reliability issue. Having said that, one could make the same argument about the transgression from air to water cooled, or for that matter, e-start only bikes (frankly I don't get that one at all), but at my age and having broken both ankles, one three times neither am I willing to live without an e-start at this time !

The IT was only one example of course... You could make some of the same comparisons between some of the same era bikes. There are guys who STILL swear by a KDX200 (very comparable to the air-cooled IT250K) as being one of the best all-round trail bikes by being light/nimble, good power, reliable.

IMO, and in most every way imaginable, I believe a well-equipped, air-cooled, non-inverted forked 80s enduro bike will fairly easily do what today's bikes do. ...and in fact you still see em out there dogging the new bikes mile-after-dusty mile.
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Vinduroman

Vinduroman



"You've come a long way, baby!" Empty
PostSubject: Re: "You've come a long way, baby!"   "You've come a long way, baby!" EmptySat Oct 24, 2009 11:39 pm

Thanks X-Racer for the elaboration.

I have a good friend that is a 7 time ISDT/E vet, many time regional Enduro Champion, etc. He LOVES the older technology and can ride 80's stuff just as fast as the new stuff.

Guess there's some truth to it!

Vinduroman
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0007onWR

0007onWR



"You've come a long way, baby!" Empty
PostSubject: Re: "You've come a long way, baby!"   "You've come a long way, baby!" EmptyMon Oct 26, 2009 10:19 pm

X-Racer wrote:
Twenty-six years later my air-cooled, YZ based, wide-ratio, 5-speed, 3.7 gal tanked, 83 IT250K would do circles around the WRR (or a WRF for that matter).

So while we've come a long, way, I'm not so sure it's all been in a positive direction.


Boy do I remember that differently, The 83 IT was kind of a tank, the IT250 died because the KDX200 (in 83) and IT200 (in 84) blew it's doors off
I agree the IT would be a better off road bike in log hopping and stuff but the WR250F is vastly superior, probably same weight and has more power if you do a couple minor mod's
As far as fun, I'm with ya all the way, weird how fun factor has nothing to do with new or fast or any of that stuff
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X-Racer

X-Racer



"You've come a long way, baby!" Empty
PostSubject: Re: "You've come a long way, baby!"   "You've come a long way, baby!" EmptyMon Oct 26, 2009 11:00 pm

007: Did you have one ?
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0007onWR

0007onWR



"You've come a long way, baby!" Empty
PostSubject: Re: "You've come a long way, baby!"   "You've come a long way, baby!" EmptyMon Oct 26, 2009 11:31 pm

I was X Country racing an 80 IT175 that year and working at Yamaha shop, The BC Expert champion was racing one of those and was pretty fast on it but with the KDX 200s out that year the only reason he won overall was because he was an absolute god on a dirt bike
The IT250 had drum brakes and ancient suspension, I think it was over 250lbs,
Depending on year the WR250F is just cam timing and throttle stop away from YZ power
Like I say, low speed log hopping and maybe mud holes the IT might be more at home
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X-Racer

X-Racer



"You've come a long way, baby!" Empty
PostSubject: Re: "You've come a long way, baby!"   "You've come a long way, baby!" EmptyTue Oct 27, 2009 12:08 am

I see... Well.... That bike was an exact early year YZ with a 6-speed, bigger tank, headlight, taillight and a tool bag. It had 12" of front and rear suspension, the rear was a monoshock just like today's bikes. Sorry... There was nothing archaic about it. Later that year the water-cooler version was released (It also didn't have disc brakes btw...).

I believe it was the last air-cooled 2-stroke race bike Yamaha built. It was 232 lbs (dry) and 34 HP out of the box. Trust me, it was no "tank". ...and also trust me, it would smoke a ("Stock" was my point) WRR (with more than the 2-stroke fumes ! * LOL *)

The IT200 was roughly 24 HP and somewhere around 220. The KDX was lighter and had slightly more HP. .....realizing of course that you can't use all HP a bike has in woods (or technical) riding and of course you give up a higher CG with the additional weight but like I said, put the bike out in the open with big bore bikes and it could hold it's own (I had trophies to prove it).

The "rideability" of the WRR is what makes it a superb mount. "Vastly superior" however would be a gross overstatement IMO.
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YZEtc

YZEtc



"You've come a long way, baby!" Empty
PostSubject: Re: "You've come a long way, baby!"   "You've come a long way, baby!" EmptyTue Oct 27, 2009 7:08 am

I've owned and/or ridden all of the mentioned bikes back in the day.
Here's my opinion on them:

1983 IT-250K:
Was very much like a 1983 YZ-250K with blue plastic, air cooling, a larger fuel tank, softer suspension, and lights.
I think it felt light and fast - it certainly was not slow.
Dry weight was low enough to get a thumbs-up from the magazine testers.
It was physically a large bike (exact same dimensions as the 1983 IT-490K).
The suspension was as up-to-the-minute as the 1983 YZs were, getting the new-for-1983 New Monocross rear suspension (first to not have the shock running under the seat and fuel tank) and big 43mm fork tubes.
The only bulbous part about it was the fuel tank would not allow the rider to slide forward as much as the YZ or most other bikes, a similar complain given the 2001-2002 WR-250F, by the way.

1984 IT-200L and 1984 KDX-200A2:
Most people (and magazine testers) picked the KDX as their fav.
Reasons were typically peppier power delivery (a bit less low end and flywheel mass in exchange for more zig to the power delivery), and the seating position on the KDX felt more natural and easier to move around on.
The IT had a better suspension and brakes and more of a torquey, less punchy power delivery.
The main complaint most had about the IT was that the rider ergonomics were a bit funny, with a swoopy seat that dipped down low toward the footpegs, tallish handlebars, and yet another trademark Yamaha fuel tank that impeded the rider sliding forward for the tight turns.
The riding position was a bit scrunched-up with the knees being bent a bit more while seated.
The IT was a featherweight 205 lbs dry, if I recall.

Comparing my WR-250R to the above bikes, it's overweight by 40 pounds (at least), came all plugged-up due to rediculous EPA regs that don't save the planet or do shit for anybody that I know, but does have a good engine (once geared down to something realistic) with a pretty good chassis for a dual-purpose bike.
The one thing that would make my WR-250R much better would be less weight.
It's a shame these bikes weigh so much.
270-something lbs dry is an eye-opener for a 250cc trail bike.
The sad part is that I don't realistically expect Yamaha to make one that's any lighter.
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0007onWR

0007onWR



"You've come a long way, baby!" Empty
PostSubject: Re: "You've come a long way, baby!"   "You've come a long way, baby!" EmptyWed Oct 28, 2009 5:00 pm

One thing a guy can never argue with is personal preference, I for one am an avid believer that new is better than 1983
The reference was that the old IT would run circles around WR250F (cuz I cant argue that the WRR is better off road than pretty much any dirt specific bike)
I'm pretty sure there isn't a lot of people who would chose the IT over the new WRF for a hare scramble or XC race today
A direct comparison to a 2 stroke 250 is a WR450 anyway

Fun is a different topic from performance, weight, power, suspension, price, model year have little to do with it

Cheers
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YZEtc

YZEtc



"You've come a long way, baby!" Empty
PostSubject: Re: "You've come a long way, baby!"   "You've come a long way, baby!" EmptyWed Oct 28, 2009 6:39 pm

I like new bikes, too.
I'm not the kind of a guy that automatically thinks older bikes are better, that's for sure.
I appreciate modern designs.
In fact, whenever I'm at the parts counter and somebody wants to engage in conversation about how wonderfully fabulous the 22nd in a series Cycle World artical was about David Edwards' CB-750K0, I want to run in the opposite direction. :)

Myself, I'm not wanting to say the old IT would kick the performance ass of a new WR-250F.
I don't agree with that except in the area of maximum power and acelleration - that IT was fast.
A WR-250F has a better chassis and suspension, by far, and has a great engine in it's own right.
All I'm really doing is reminising about bikes I've had in the past and blabbing about them, and when I read "IT-250K", I felt the need to give my opinion about it.
I love to ramble on about certain things. :)

For the time, the IT-250K was a great bike.
Between the IT-250K and a modern equilavent made my Yamaha for week-in, week-out riding in 2009, I'd without hesitation take the modern equivalent, which would probably be a WR-250F (and not the WR-250R that I'm riding. Actually, I'd love to get a nice, new WR-450F as my next bike, and have, for the past week, been fighting the urge to take the money out of the bank to go buy one immediately).

The reason a took a stab at my own WR-250R, saying that it's overweight, is because I really wish we'd be able to buy a 450 or 500cc dual-purpose bike that weighs 249lbs dry.
Yeah, a daydream, I know, at least from the Japanese manufacturers. :)
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0007onWR

0007onWR



"You've come a long way, baby!" Empty
PostSubject: Re: "You've come a long way, baby!"   "You've come a long way, baby!" EmptyWed Oct 28, 2009 9:45 pm

I hear ya, I have talked with lot's of guys and even old time techs who try to convince me that "The (insert bike here) was just as fast as that new (insert bike here)

I definitely say the funnest riding I have ever done was on my 74 CR250, 80 IT175, 83 KDX200 and 86 KDX200 (as well as my Quadracer)
The CR gave me many war wounds, the IT is responsible for my bad ankles and one gross looking arm, the 83 KDX helped me wreck my knee but I was obsessed back then, I wish i could get that rush back

The WRR is the way it is because when you think about it, Dual purpose bikes need to be street bikes first and dirt bikes second simply because of compliance issues, by law they have to meet EPA regs after (I think it's) 25,000km, dirt bike engines wont last long enough nor would the chassis or transmission live that distance on the street
That's why I'm a sled junkie now, you want 300hp and a 174 x 2.5 inch track, Just order up the parts

I want a 450 too but dont hold your breath, I'm doing an athena kit over the winter



Very happy
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bman





"You've come a long way, baby!" Empty
PostSubject: Re: "You've come a long way, baby!"   "You've come a long way, baby!" EmptyWed Nov 04, 2009 8:33 pm

"You've come a long way, baby!" Xt250002

Haayyyy,.....

I owned Meefs 81 Yamaha for a year. Had the engine rebuilt, had some fun, sold it to a guy in PA who owned alot of land with a farm.
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X-Racer

X-Racer



"You've come a long way, baby!" Empty
PostSubject: Re: "You've come a long way, baby!"   "You've come a long way, baby!" EmptyThu Nov 05, 2009 1:52 am

Oh yea.... While THAT XT may not do circles around a NEW WRR, it may, in-fact, outlast one !

The cost/grin factor is definitely intact ! ....AND you can almost work on it with a leatherman !

Nice shiney Akront (?) rims too ! Works for me... Let's ride !
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