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 WR taco in diagnostic mode?

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WRoldman

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:29 pm

dirtytrixx400 wrote:
mwakey wrote:
That's interesting as I would think the CO mode would be affecting the system through the operation of the AIS (and maybe the EXUP). If you have the AIS blocked off I wonder what the changes you made are actually affecting? Something in the ECU and injection timing maybe?

just to be clear on what i noticed....it only gave me a slightly higher and very stable idle...but with my original number it seemed to idle ok/good....not noticeable till you get it even better.
it also made my off idle/take off very crisp.....i could tell it pulled up to the mid-range quicker going thru the gears. wide open throttle unchanged...it felt as it always had.
my idle rpm with the original -7 was 1410-1430...new number of +3 is 1480-1490 and sounds very even and strong. blipping the throttle is very crisp.

I wonder if the same benefit could be had by just adjusting the idle speed. 1450-1650 is recommended by the service manual.
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mwakey

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:36 pm

Now you need to get some fuel mileage numbers and compare them to your original settings.
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mwakey

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:46 pm

WRoldman wrote:
I wonder if the same benefit could be had by just adjusting the idle speed. 1450-1650 is recommended by the service manual.

Adjusting the idle as per the manual will only get you a higher idle with the throttle closed, and the same fuel mixture throughout the rest of the operating range. What he is doing with the CO mode adjustment is slightly richening the mix for all RPM ranges (at least I think that's how the CO mode works). Maybe it only affects low RPM performance and emissions. Not really sure.

Anyhow, adjusting the idle screw changes the amount of intake air that is allowed to bleed past the throttle body through the idle orifice. Once the throttle is opened, that setting pretty much goes out the door for the rest of the RPM range and the fuel mixture is set to what the ECU gives it, and the intake air is controlled by how much the throttle is open.
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:54 pm

WRoldman wrote:
dirtytrixx400 wrote:
mwakey wrote:
That's interesting as I would think the CO mode would be affecting the system through the operation of the AIS (and maybe the EXUP). If you have the AIS blocked off I wonder what the changes you made are actually affecting? Something in the ECU and injection timing maybe?

just to be clear on what i noticed....it only gave me a slightly higher and very stable idle...but with my original number it seemed to idle ok/good....not noticeable till you get it even better.
it also made my off idle/take off very crisp.....i could tell it pulled up to the mid-range quicker going thru the gears. wide open throttle unchanged...it felt as it always had.
my idle rpm with the original -7 was 1410-1430...new number of +3 is 1480-1490 and sounds very even and strong. blipping the throttle is very crisp.

I wonder if the same benefit could be had by just adjusting the idle speed. 1450-1650 is recommended by the service manual.

i understand what your saying...but...since i only changed my CO settings and achieved a higher idle there has to be a definite fuel mixture change,and in my case a better than the original setting.i went back to my original setting a cpl times to compare and it did not feel as crisp either idling or on take off.
like i said...it was only noticeable when i found a better number,stock i thought was ok/good,but the new setting is better.
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:03 pm

mwakey wrote:
Now you need to get some fuel mileage numbers and compare them to your original settings.

i've never bothered to keep up with them..... i wish i had though.

my low fuel ight has came on at 90 miles one time,then on another ride we were at 130 miles(by my odometer) and it had not came on yet as we had to stop for fuel for my buddy's thirsty old klr600. i'm sure it was about to come on though if we had gone any further.
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0007onWR

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:46 pm

This is a lively topic, pretty cool that we can adjust things using the buttons on the dash
Richening this will add fuel through out the range similar to adjusting pilot fuel or pilot jet on a carb, but that amount of fuel is small, it has an effect at idle but further up the throttle range there is so little added has very little effect
The reason it has no effect on startup is that most sophisticated fuel injection system's have a startup mode that is totally unrelated to any map used when the bike is running
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Chrispy1200

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:21 am

0007onWR wrote:
The reason it has no effect on startup is that most sophisticated fuel injection system's have a startup mode that is totally unrelated to any map used when the bike is running

I thought so too since you can't change any starting settings within any Dynojet software. I would just like to get back to the instant starting I had when mine was stock.
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:52 am

0007onWR wrote:
This is a lively topic, pretty cool that we can adjust things using the buttons on the dash
Richening this will add fuel through out the range similar to adjusting pilot fuel or pilot jet on a carb, but that amount of fuel is small, it has an effect at idle but further up the throttle range there is so little added has very little effect
The reason it has no effect on startup is that most sophisticated fuel injection system's have a startup mode that is totally unrelated to any map used when the bike is running

remember a few posts back on this thread when i first tried adjusting the settings....and i stated i couldn't tell a big difference in changing the numbers? well i did a few things wrong....#1 i did not leave it set at any new number but a few seconds or so,i should have been a little more patient because moving it only a few numbers in either direction does show a change...it just takes it a little longer to show up while idling...and of course i was also blipping the throttle and not waiting for it to actually settle down to a regular idle long enough to tell. #2 i was stuck in the garage because it was raining and not able to test ride it at the time......i was able to tell that dropping only 3 numbers less or slightly leaner was a step in the wrong direction immediately when i was able to test ride it. going up to +10 was also a immediate effect i could tell on the test runs. so i was able to tell the range i needed to be in right away with only 2 test settings.
i just wanted to clear that up....that post conflicts with what i actually ended up finding when i was able to test ride it.

another cool benefit was being able to see the tach part of it while i was testing it. i now know that most of my usual in town or around in my neighborhood type streets have the engine spinning under 6k rpms with the 12/43 gearing. most of the time it was in the 4500-5500 range if i were really trying to stay at or below the speed limits. i wish the speedo would show at the same time,but you only have the tach in CO mode. i now know what 6k and above rpm's sound like and i would have guessed without the tach that it was much higher rpm's than it actually was.....good to know what the engine is actually spinning at.
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0007onWR

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Wed Oct 14, 2009 12:04 am

LOL
Patience and enthusiasm are not the best of friends, specially when yer locked in your garage inhaling exhaust fumes
I cant figure out why they add stuff like a clock and a buncha trip meters when all I want is to be able to toggle between speedo and tack
Probably not legal to make the speedo go away I guess
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:20 am

0007onWR wrote:
LOL
Patience and enthusiasm are not the best of friends, specially when yer locked in your garage inhaling exhaust fumes

lol...i had the door open
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sswrx

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:41 pm

mwakey wrote:
Nice to know the meter has the capability of showing a tach reading. Now i am going to have to check it out and see how close it is to my own tach. Too bad Yamaha won't let us have that on the screen full time. I would much rather see the tach on the top line instead of the stupid clock!

Too bad they just didn't make the panel like the 250 Kawi's. I think it has a clock, tach, & all.
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georgis4

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:48 am

Just a few things....
I got into the Co adjustment menu WITHOUT messing any cables..
My original Co seting number was +4 and just got it at 6(just turn the key off when you do the adjustment and it keeps it).....later i am gonna go for a ride to see if there are any deferences....
for the history i am talking about for a europe spec bike with lamda sensor (greece) and i m living at a maximum of 50 meters above sea level..(thessaloniki)
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mwakey

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:42 pm

That's interesting that you can get to the CO Mode without grounding the black lean sensor wire. Maybe the Euro models are set up different because of the O2 sensor.
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:48 pm

mwakey wrote:
That's interesting that you can get to the CO Mode without grounding the black lean sensor wire. Maybe the Euro models are set up different because of the O2 sensor.

i started to ask about this back at the time this thread had started......i swear i got into the CO mode by accident when i first got my bike(memory from 7 months ago) and before i had the service manual. i was trying to go into the diagnostic mode,but was not sure how to access it...i was going on info i had read from a TT thread on pulling up the diag mode a few days earlier.
anyways it doesn't matter now,but i'm almost positive i somehow got it to go to the CO by accident....and didn't have a clue of what i had done or what it meant.....good thing just turning the key off resets it.
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:02 pm

georgis4 wrote:
Just a few things....
I got into the Co adjustment menu WITHOUT messing any cables..
My original Co seting number was +4 and just got it at 6(just turn the key off when you do the adjustment and it keeps it).....later i am gonna go for a ride to see if there are any deferences....
for the history i am talking about for a europe spec bike with lamda sensor (greece) and i m living at a maximum of 50 meters above sea level..(thessaloniki)

i'm thinking that having a O2 sensor will only allow a smaller range of adjustability.
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dugsgms




PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:49 am

What a awesome thread, just checked mine a few minutes ago,(CA. WRR), it was set at -1, Gonna go on ride tomorrow and bring all tools needed to change settings during the ride. Recently installed a Q4 and did the airbox mod, helped with power some but now has a slight bog with large and quick throttle openings especially at lower rpms and at higher altitudes. set the CO mode setting to 20 so well see what happens. Thanks for the info guys and gals.
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:06 am

you can access it anytime if you go ahead and make a jumper for the hidden extra black/ground wire on the lean angle sensor's connector....then it's the same drill as going into diagnostic mode. no tools required.
the negative battery terminal is the best and closest good ground point.

seeing the tach while riding is also pretty cool.
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georgis4

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:48 pm

Some relative info about the CO adjutment from R1 and R6 forums....(a
bit old links far from even 2004 but looks like similar function!)
Seems that the adjustment is similar with the WRs ECU and yes it looks that the CO setting is for richening or lean of mixture!
(playing with the numbers setting it to -60 and more or +60 and more started to loose idling rpms but didnt kill the engine off)

http://www.r6messagenet.com/forums/r6-how-guides/15407-how-richen-lean-mixture-without-power-commander.html

http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62758&pp=20&page=21
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:26 pm

georgis4 ....thanks for the info and links
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georgis4

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:37 pm

dirtytrixx400 wrote:
georgis4 ....thanks for the info and links

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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:51 pm

i'm still thinking that for the euro models you will need to get around the O2 sensor for getting to a more noticeable difference in the setting. that is the O2 sensors job in the first place....to add a final value for the ecu to produce it's calculation(s) for fuel and timming.

i haven't looked for what-ever get arounds to use for a euro-model with the O2 sensor,but the first thought that comes to mind is to remove the sensor and replace it with a resistor that matches it as if the sensor was installed and at it's correct value while running.
i'm guessing it's only reading a voltage....so i would measure that on the bike after it's at normal running temp. i would either pierce the wires themselves or try to probe at the connector to get my measurements.
it might also help to get measurements at various rpms and throttle openings too.
i say this because the ecu may ignore O2 readings in certain situations...like wide open throttle or idle,etc......i just don't know. it would be alot easier if we had the info on stuff like this available.
anyone speak japanese? and...lol...know who to ask about this?
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georgis4

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:06 pm

dirtytrixx400 wrote:
i'm still thinking that for the euro models you will need to get around the O2 sensor for getting to a more noticeable difference in the setting. that is the O2 sensors job in the first place....to add a final value for the ecu to produce it's calculation(s) for fuel and timming.

i haven't looked for what-ever get arounds to use for a euro-model with the O2 sensor,but the first thought that comes to mind is to remove the sensor and replace it with a resistor that matches it as if the sensor was installed and at it's correct value while running.
i'm guessing it's only reading a voltage....so i would measure that on the bike after it's at normal running temp. i would either pierce the wires themselves or try to probe at the connector to get my measurements.
it might also help to get measurements at various rpms and throttle openings too.
i say this because the ecu may ignore O2 readings in certain situations...like wide open throttle or idle,etc......i just don't know. it would be alot easier if we had the info on stuff like this available.
anyone speak japanese? and...lol...know who to ask about this?
Sorry english and greek only.. LOL
A strange thing about the O2 sensor on the WRs is that if you remove it and start/ride the bike the engine light wont light up!hmmm
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INSTIGATOR

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:08 pm

Where can I find the lean angle sensor?
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:12 pm

INSTIGATOR wrote:
Where can I find the lean angle sensor?

it's mounted on top of the airbox...directly in front of the flapper actuator.
the wire harness plug that goes to it is where the extra black/ground wire is located.
unplug it and you will see it.....the bottom 3 wires have matching blades to connect for the lean angle sensor,but the extra wire has nothing.
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dirtytrixx400

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PostSubject: Re: WR taco in diagnostic mode?   Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:25 pm

georgis4 wrote:
dirtytrixx400 wrote:
i'm still thinking that for the euro models you will need to get around the O2 sensor for getting to a more noticeable difference in the setting. that is the O2 sensors job in the first place....to add a final value for the ecu to produce it's calculation(s) for fuel and timming.

i haven't looked for what-ever get arounds to use for a euro-model with the O2 sensor,but the first thought that comes to mind is to remove the sensor and replace it with a resistor that matches it as if the sensor was installed and at it's correct value while running.
i'm guessing it's only reading a voltage....so i would measure that on the bike after it's at normal running temp. i would either pierce the wires themselves or try to probe at the connector to get my measurements.
it might also help to get measurements at various rpms and throttle openings too.
i say this because the ecu may ignore O2 readings in certain situations...like wide open throttle or idle,etc......i just don't know. it would be alot easier if we had the info on stuff like this available.
anyone speak japanese? and...lol...know who to ask about this?
Sorry english and greek only.. LOL
A strange thing about the O2 sensor on the WRs is that if you remove it and start/ride the bike the engine light wont light up!hmmm

yea...i think you are hinting it may not do anything or much of anything if you just disconnect it...but it also may put the ecu into some pre-set mode...similar to the "limp-home" mode also. again i just don't know. the fact that it doesn't produce a check engine light might also be because the electronics may have been made without that sensor being on it's list of things to signal a CEL.

for me...mine is the us model.....going only 10 numbers in either direction produced a noticeable big difference. you were going 50 or 60 numbers before you noticed a difference...i'm thinking your O2 sensor is doing it's job and trying to compensate your new number(s) back into the range the factory set it at...which may or may not be what you actually want for the best performance.
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