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 Not starting

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WolfpackFBNS




PostSubject: Not starting   Tue May 05, 2015 8:13 pm

I have an 08' WRX with about 16K miles on it. I just changed the spark plug about 2 months ago and it ran fine for a bit but then it started having trouble turning over. I thought it was the battery (original) and so I got a new battery but that didn't do the trick. When I turn the key everything lights up and I hear the fuel pump priming but then it won't turn over all the way.
I took the tank off tonight to take a look underneath, I thought maybe a fuel line was pinched but didn't notice anything odd. I then took the spark plug out and it seemed to be wet and looking down into where the plug goes it looks very dirty and wet too. I know that I put a lot of dielectric grease and anti-seize when putting the new plug in and think that is what is making the plug looks wet. I cleaned the plug but don't know how to clean where the plug goes.
Any thoughts?????? dunno dunno dunno dunno
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motokid
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PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Wed May 06, 2015 6:12 am

Start simple and work towards more difficult.

Bike in neutral? Side stand down or up? Try both. Kill switch in "run" position?
Battery hooked up correctly and terminals are tight? Fresh gas? Enough gas?
Air filter area clear, clean, and unobstructed? Wiring under the seat looks clean and not cracked, chewed up, or possibly shorting out somewhere? No codes being thrown on dash board?

If bike was stored outside I've read about the start button contacts getting sketchy. Did you ever bypass or futz with the side stand safety switch? Any mods to bike like a fuel programmer? Is bike 100% stock? Are you original owner of bike?

Have you checked all your fuses? There's a bank of fuses under shroud by gas tank on clutch side of bike.

More information is better for people to help diagnose your issue.

Since you removed your gas tank at least once, I know there's also a plug between the tank and radiator that has caused people some issues in the past. Make sure that plug is tightly connected.


_________________
2008 WR250X
Gearing: 13t - 48t
Power Commander 5 / PC-V
Airbox Door Removed - Flapper glued - AIS removed
FmF Q4
Bridgestone Battlax BT-003rs
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WolfpackFBNS




PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Wed May 06, 2015 9:56 am

motokid wrote:
Start simple and work towards more difficult.

Bike in neutral? Side stand down or up? Try both. Kill switch in "run" position?
Battery hooked up correctly and terminals are tight? Fresh gas? Enough gas?
Air filter area clear, clean, and unobstructed? Wiring under the seat looks clean and not cracked, chewed up, or possibly shorting out somewhere? No codes being thrown on dash board?

If bike was stored outside I've read about the start button contacts getting sketchy. Did you ever bypass or futz with the side stand safety switch? Any mods to bike like a fuel programmer? Is bike 100% stock? Are you original owner of bike?

Have you checked all your fuses? There's a bank of fuses under shroud by gas tank on clutch side of bike.

More information is better for people to help diagnose your issue.

Since you removed your gas tank at least once, I know there's also a plug between the tank and radiator that has caused people some issues in the past. Make sure that plug is tightly connected.


Your right, more info is better. Some I can answer now and some I'll have to wait till I get home to look at.

I am the original owner (Bought new in 2010 from dealer)
Used to commute for about 3 years in all weather conditions.
Stored in garage
Bike is in neutral
I think stand is down but I'll have to check. I've never messed with the safety wiring there.
Have a slip-on but no fuel programmer. No other mods.
Battery is hooked up correctly and tests fine.
Kill switch is operational as far as I know but I'll check that when I get home.
Gas is good as far as I know too. I used the bike several times this year and have had several fill ups.
New spark plug and it ran fine with that as well for a few weeks.
Wiring looks good under seat. Not cracked or messy.
I haven't checked fuses and I have the original stock air filter that I just recently cleaned with K&N cleaner and oiled with K&N oil. I just read on another thread that this is not recommended and so will be ordering new filter and using Foam specific oil.

Will check if I am getting spark when I get home among the other things mentioned above. Thanks for the help.
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rsteiger

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PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Wed May 06, 2015 11:00 am

WolfpackFBNS wrote:
When I turn the key everything lights up and I hear the fuel pump priming but then it won't turn over all the way.

What do you mean by "it won't turn over all the way"?

Is the engine turning over but the motor is not firing up? In other words the starter is turning the motor but you don't have ignition?

Have you tried to bump start the bike in 3rd or 4th gear?
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WolfpackFBNS




PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Wed May 06, 2015 2:51 pm

rsteiger wrote:
WolfpackFBNS wrote:
When I turn the key everything lights up and I hear the fuel pump priming but then it won't turn over all the way.

What do you mean by "it won't turn over all the way"?

Is the engine turning over but the motor is not firing up?  In other words the starter is turning the motor but you don't have ignition?

Have you tried to bump start the bike in 3rd or 4th gear?

I guess I mean that it cranks (motor is trying to start, lights and display come on but it will not fire up I guess. Maybe I don't know the proper verbiage.

I haven't tried to bump start it yet. I will check the fuses and test plug for spark since the bike is all taken apart right now. Hopefully I'll figure it out before putting it back together but if not I'll try bump starting it as a last resort.
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blusmoke




PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Wed May 06, 2015 2:58 pm

Is the bike not turning over fast enough on the compression stroke?

I also recommend cleaning as much of the anti-seize off the plug as you can, Its unnecessary with good quality/NGK plugs. Iv'e heard it can cause issues with the plug making a proper ground to the head and also can foul the plug.
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WolfpackFBNS




PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Wed May 06, 2015 3:36 pm

blusmoke wrote:
Is the bike not turning over fast enough on the compression stroke?

I also recommend cleaning as much of the anti-seize off the plug as you can, Its unnecessary with good quality/NGK plugs. Iv'e heard it can cause issues with the plug making a proper ground to the head and also can foul the plug.

I'm not sure about the "turning over fast enough". I wish I were more mechanically inclined. I did clean the plug and I hope that it works tonight when I check. I am kind a worried about how dirty it looks down where the plug goes. It also appears wet but maybe that is unburned fuel since it probably isn't getting spark. I'll know more tonight and post any findings.
Thanks for all the replies and help!
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rsteiger

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PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Wed May 06, 2015 4:19 pm

Been through this merry go round a couple of times for different reasons. Make sure to keep the battery charged while you are going through this.

If you have spark put the bike back together. Try to crank it and if the bike does not even pop then hold the throttle wide open and crank away for a while. Mine would usually stumble to life at that point.

The reason I mentioned bump starting is that sometimes it would appear that the starter just was not spinning the motor fast enough for the bike to start. Usually I could get it to fire up with a bump start and all would be good.... until next time.

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dogfarm




PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Wed May 06, 2015 5:32 pm

Just spit balling here. Are you sure the plug connector is secure? I have had the plug cap separate from coil wires before so check the coil wire on both ends. I would also check grounding points on the bike. Not sure on this bike. I found the service manual on-line for free with a little google searching.
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blusmoke




PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Wed May 06, 2015 7:07 pm

+1 on what dogfarm suggested.

If you have compressed air blow all the dirt and any sediment out of the plug well prior to removing the spark plug, thats what the manual suggests before plug removal.

If the spark plug hole still appears wet when you check for spark, thats indicating that the cylinder is flooded with fuel for some reason. This is common ailment of carbureted bikes, and can make starting difficult to impossible even if you have a good spark.

Riestger did a good job describing how one goes about starting a flooded engine. Alternatively with the spark plug removed you just keep cranking the engine until it dries out. Ive also witnessed guys out on the trail burn off the fuel with a lighter, that works well too but is inherently somewhat risky.
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WolfpackFBNS




PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Wed May 06, 2015 7:45 pm

So I checked the fuses and all good there.
Oddly enough when I wanted to check if I'm getting spark it seems that the ignition coil doesn't want to hold the plug entirely. It's kinda loose. So I took the rubber piece off the bottom of the ignition coil to see if something was obstructing it and the spark plug go into the coil. Is this wrong or something up? I tried cleaning out the plug well and putting the plug back in and the ignition coil will not seat all the way. Something is weird with this. So I looked at the manual and checked the resistance of the ignition coil and it reads 1.9-2.0 Ohms and the manual says it should be b/t 1.19-1.61.
Is this possible that the ignition coil was damaged and somehow not letting the plug be inserted all the way?
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WRXZ

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PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Thu May 07, 2015 12:36 am

PM sent
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motokid
Moderator
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PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Thu May 07, 2015 6:07 am

WRXZ wrote:
PM sent

You should post any suggestions rather than PM them. It might help others down the road.


_________________
2008 WR250X
Gearing: 13t - 48t
Power Commander 5 / PC-V
Airbox Door Removed - Flapper glued - AIS removed
FmF Q4
Bridgestone Battlax BT-003rs
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motokid
Moderator
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PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Thu May 07, 2015 6:11 am

WolfpackFBNS wrote:
So I checked the fuses and all good there.
Oddly enough when I wanted to check if I'm getting spark it seems that the ignition coil doesn't want to hold the plug entirely. It's kinda loose. So I took the rubber piece off the bottom of the ignition coil to see if something was obstructing it and the spark plug go into the coil. Is this wrong or something up? I tried cleaning out the plug well and putting the plug back in and the ignition coil will not seat all the way. Something is weird with this. So I looked at the manual and checked the resistance of the ignition coil and it reads 1.9-2.0 Ohms and the manual says it should be b/t 1.19-1.61.
Is this possible that the ignition coil was damaged and somehow not letting the plug be inserted all the way?


When you replaced spark plug, what did you replace it with? Did you go with the exact plug replacement, or did you try a new/different plug?

I can not answer your question about the Ohms resistance. Shog

There have been a few members here who've had issues with cracked ceramic on their plugs giving them fits. dunno


_________________
2008 WR250X
Gearing: 13t - 48t
Power Commander 5 / PC-V
Airbox Door Removed - Flapper glued - AIS removed
FmF Q4
Bridgestone Battlax BT-003rs
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WolfpackFBNS




PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Thu May 07, 2015 7:23 am

motokid wrote:
WolfpackFBNS wrote:
So I checked the fuses and all good there.
Oddly enough when I wanted to check if I'm getting spark it seems that the ignition coil doesn't want to hold the plug entirely. It's kinda loose. So I took the rubber piece off the bottom of the ignition coil to see if something was obstructing it and the spark plug go into the coil. Is this wrong or something up? I tried cleaning out the plug well and putting the plug back in and the ignition coil will not seat all the way. Something is weird with this. So I looked at the manual and checked the resistance of the ignition coil and it reads 1.9-2.0 Ohms and the manual says it should be b/t 1.19-1.61.
Is this possible that the ignition coil was damaged and somehow not letting the plug be inserted all the way?


When you replaced spark plug, what did you replace it with? Did you go with the exact plug replacement, or did you try a new/different plug?

I can not answer your question about the Ohms resistance. Shog

There have been a few members here who've had issues with cracked ceramic on their plugs giving them fits.  dunno


The new plug looks good (don't see cracks in ceramic). I went with a NGK iridium version of the original plug (can't remember exact model number).
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WRXZ

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PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Thu May 07, 2015 8:24 am

I'm local to the op and sent him a pm with my contact info. I wouldn't hold back any opinion that might help others.
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motokid
Moderator
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PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Thu May 07, 2015 9:06 am

WRXZ wrote:
I'm local to the op and sent him a pm with my contact info. I wouldn't hold back any opinion that might help others.

thumb

_________________
2008 WR250X
Gearing: 13t - 48t
Power Commander 5 / PC-V
Airbox Door Removed - Flapper glued - AIS removed
FmF Q4
Bridgestone Battlax BT-003rs
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rsteiger

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PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Thu May 07, 2015 10:08 am

There were two things that I did recently which seemed to eliminate my no starts so far.

One was to remove the PC5 and return the bike back to stock (as much as I could). The PC5 had a connector to the TPS that was did not feature the water shield that the stock connector has. Since most of my no starts occurred after some sort of water exposure I figured this could be a possible cause for the no starts.

Second was I replaced the coil stick. I was never impressed with the spark intensity of the one that was on the bike but never did check the resistance on it.

So far I have had no issues with starting after these two changes. Can't say which one may have resolved the issue but I suspect it was the second one more than the first.
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WolfpackFBNS




PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Thu May 07, 2015 10:17 am

rsteiger wrote:
There were two things that I did recently which seemed to eliminate my no starts so far.

One was to remove the PC5 and return the bike back to stock (as much as I could).  The PC5 had a connector to the TPS that was did not feature the water shield that the stock connector has.  Since most of my no starts occurred after some sort of water exposure I figured this could be a possible cause for the no starts.

Second was I replaced the coil stick.  I was never impressed with the spark intensity of the one that was on the bike but never did check the resistance on it.

So far I have had no issues with starting after these two changes.  Can't say which one may have resolved the issue but I suspect it was the second one more than the first.

So did you find an ignition coil that performed better than the stock one? Where did you buy from? I could only find something from a Yamaha OEM parts website. I saw some used ones on ebay but thought I didn't want a used one that may crap out on me like mine did.
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rsteiger

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PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Thu May 07, 2015 10:25 am

WolfpackFBNS wrote:
rsteiger wrote:
There were two things that I did recently which seemed to eliminate my no starts so far.

One was to remove the PC5 and return the bike back to stock (as much as I could).  The PC5 had a connector to the TPS that was did not feature the water shield that the stock connector has.  Since most of my no starts occurred after some sort of water exposure I figured this could be a possible cause for the no starts.

Second was I replaced the coil stick.  I was never impressed with the spark intensity of the one that was on the bike but never did check the resistance on it.

So far I have had no issues with starting after these two changes.  Can't say which one may have resolved the issue but I suspect it was the second one more than the first.

So did you find an ignition coil that performed better than the stock one? Where did you buy from? I could only find something from a Yamaha OEM parts website. I saw some used ones on ebay but thought I didn't want a used one that may crap out on me like mine did.

I just ordered another stock one from my local Yamaha dealer.  OEM parts are also available on Rocky Mountain ATV if you want to check prices.

Select Electrical 1 under Assemblies and it is item #7 on that page:

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/oem-schematic/5
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WolfpackFBNS




PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Thu May 07, 2015 10:48 am

rsteiger wrote:
WolfpackFBNS wrote:
rsteiger wrote:
There were two things that I did recently which seemed to eliminate my no starts so far.

One was to remove the PC5 and return the bike back to stock (as much as I could).  The PC5 had a connector to the TPS that was did not feature the water shield that the stock connector has.  Since most of my no starts occurred after some sort of water exposure I figured this could be a possible cause for the no starts.

Second was I replaced the coil stick.  I was never impressed with the spark intensity of the one that was on the bike but never did check the resistance on it.

So far I have had no issues with starting after these two changes.  Can't say which one may have resolved the issue but I suspect it was the second one more than the first.

So did you find an ignition coil that performed better than the stock one? Where did you buy from? I could only find something from a Yamaha OEM parts website. I saw some used ones on ebay but thought I didn't want a used one that may crap out on me like mine did.

I just ordered another stock one from my local Yamaha dealer.  OEM parts are also available on Rocky Mountain ATV if you want to check prices.

Select Electrical 1 under Assemblies and it is item #7 on that page:

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/oem-schematic/5

I forgot to check RockyMountain before I ordered but now that I looked up their price I'm glad I didn't. They have some good prices on stuff but I found this same part (supposedly new) we'll see for $50. I never heard of this site before but check it out. http://www.mfgsupply.com/
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rsteiger

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PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Thu May 07, 2015 11:03 am

^^ Good to know!

Was going to say another option would be to swap one with another WRR rider and see if it makes a difference before you order. But you did well at that price!
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WolfpackFBNS




PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Sun May 17, 2015 8:00 pm

Okay so first things first, WRXZ is AWESOME! It is so nice to know that there are people out there that'll take time out of their own day to help a complete stranger. He was a God send!

Now to my problem, it was a simple fix and WRXZ had it figured out in about 5 minutes. We checked spark and we had it with the old Ignition Coil! Aaaggghh, after spending $50 for a part that wasn't needed and there aren't returns on these electronic parts. WRXZ asked about my air filter and I explained that it was the original stock filter and I just cleaned it a few weeks ago (around the time this problem started). I'm going to start doing more off road stuff and so I thought that I should Oil the crap out of the air filter well that was the problem. I guess my engine was choking, not getting the air it needed! I used some paper towels to soak up the oil and there you go. It fired right up.

Thank you again everyone for trying to help diagnose and thank you so much to WRXZ for coming by today and getting this bike running again. wings wings

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WRXZ

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PostSubject: Re: Not starting   Tue May 19, 2015 8:06 am

Thanks so much for the kind words Wolfpack. If there's anyone else that needs help in the Raleigh NC area please don't hesitate to message me. Peace YAM
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