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 Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.

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Thekeeper




PostSubject: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Fri May 13, 2016 12:28 pm

Hey all, recently got my new 2016 wr250r. Threw handguards and a skid plate, michelin ac10 18 psi and today i went for a test ride.
In one word, Horrible.
It left like the bike wants to throw me off! Tyres feel like they dont want to grip, front end skids alot, front rebound very hard.
I was wondering if its like that because of bike didnt yet finish break in? Less than 100 miles
Simple trails felt like fighting with the bike
Although i coming from a ktm exc still its unaccepted and strange.

Suspension settings are 12 out for dumping on shock, 13 out on rebound
Fork settings are similiar, im 75 kg with gear.

How much sag should i aim here?
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Biglake




PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Fri May 13, 2016 12:43 pm

Its mostly the rear shock, its so far out of wack stock it makes the front end do bad things too.

Back the shocks preload off until you have at least 4 inches of sag (I ran closer to 5 when my shock was stock but im quite a bit heavier) and set the rebound to 3 clicks out, pretty much everyone with a stock shock runs the rebound at 3 clicks out.
For your weight set the compression close to full soft on the shock too.
The shock is too stiff with not enough rebound, doing these adjustments helps a bunch.

The forks may need to break in a bit, they're not that bad stock.
Try running the fork clickers 15 out on both compression and rebound for now, the forks will soften up a bit in a few hundred miles and you can turn the compression in some after that.thumb
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wwguy

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PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Fri May 13, 2016 1:36 pm

I agree... stock suspension is unacceptable for serious trail riding (i.e. anything other than flat slow trails.)  Your 75kg weight is in range for the stock springs.  Stock rear shock dampening, especially rebound, is notoriously awful for those of us trying to enjoy more aggressive trail riding with these bikes.

After reading dozens of posts on the topic and asking a lot of Dumb Questions I found the best results with the stock suspension setup as follows:
Static sag: 35mm
Race sag: 100mm
Rear shock compression: 10 clicks out (stock)
Rear shock rebound: 3 clicks out (full)
Fork compression: 1 click out
Fork rebound: 15 clicks out

Last winter I revalved the shock and forks with Race Tech Gold valves and wow... what a difference.

It's also worth noting that DOT-rated knobbies have very stiff sidewalls.  I've been dropping the pressure on my Dunlop D606 tires looking for a softer ride and more traction.  I'm currently running 12 psi and would like to drop lower but am afraid of spinning a tire without rim locks.  I just put a Tubliss system on my Beta Xtrainer and will do the same to my WRR as soon as I recover from spontaneously buying the Beta to ride where I can't with my WRR.  The only downside to Tubliss or rim locks on the WRR is that the wheels should be balanced and weighted if you do any significant higher speed highway riding.

Check out how my bike handles trail whoops with a modified suspension at 13:30 in the video below.  When I rode the same section a year ago on the stock suspension I had to ride much slower and I still almost got thrown from the bike.  Now it's a walk (or ride) in the proverbial park.

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MaggiesFarm




PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Fri May 13, 2016 2:01 pm

What is the difference between static sag and race sag?
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wwguy

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PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Fri May 13, 2016 2:22 pm

Static sag is how much the suspension compresses under the bike's own weight. I.e. the difference between when it's on a stand and when it's on the ground without a rider.

Race sag is how much the suspensions compresses with the rider and any gear or luggage on the bike.

There's a quick overview here if interested.

Sag adjustments are all about verifying correct spring rates and setting the shock spring to efficiently use as much shock piston stroke as practically possible without bottoming out etc. IMHO changing dampening clicker settings is a waste of time without verifying correct spring rate and sag settings first.
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Biglake




PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Fri May 13, 2016 4:11 pm

wwguy wrote:

It's also worth noting that DOT-rated knobbies have very stiff sidewalls.  I've been dropping the pressure on my Dunlop D606 tires looking for a softer ride and more traction.  I'm currently running 12 psi and would like to drop lower but am afraid of spinning a tire without rim locks.  I just put a Tubliss system on my Beta Xtrainer and will do the same to my WRR as soon as I recover from spontaneously buying the Beta to ride where I can't with my WRR.  The only downside to Tubliss or rim locks on the WRR is that the wheels should be balanced and weighted if you do any significant higher speed highway riding

I found a good/easy way to balance out rim locks, I seen it on another bike site years ago but forget which.
You put a strip of stick on car weights that weigh the same as the rim lock under the rim strip across from the rim lock then bury them in tape so they cant cut the tube.
I did this to my wrr in 2013 and the wheels still don't shake, we did my brothers klx this spring and hes liking the shake free ride at speed now. thumb
If you buy motion pro lite locks the package states how much the rim locks weigh, this is what I have, with oem rim locks you will need to weigh them on a small scale.
This will also work to balance out the rim lock in the tubliss system. thumb
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Jens Eskildsen




PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Fri May 13, 2016 5:30 pm

So, you go for a testride with too much air in the tires, and without setting the sag (which is  just the absolute basic of suspentiontuning) and are surprised that the bike handles badly?  Shog

IMO the rear shock isnt as bad as it gets described... When you come from 1980's and 1990's dualsports, the suspention (end just about everything else) on this bike makes it seems like its from the future.

Do a bit of reading inhere, theres more than one post about recommended settings regarding rebound and compression. Static sag = 10% of the shock travel. Racesag 30% of the shock travel. Then finetune for your riding.

Have you fitted rimlocks and balanced the wheels? If so, try 14 psi...You can go a bit lower for technical stuff. If not, buy the motionpro lite ones.

Having siad that, the bike IS sluggish compared to an exc, in both power, weight and suspention.
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eram310




PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Fri May 13, 2016 6:15 pm

Hey keeper,
I am in the same boat and the same weight.
Both Biglake and WWguy are correct.
The stock damping on the rear is horrible. This will be the first upgrade on my list of things to  do.  Way before power module, airbox and free flowing exhaust system.
Even with the setting they recommended, it’s not even close to an average off road bike suspension.  MY DRZ400 has much better suspension for off road riding.
It’s heavier, so more of challenge on tight single track, but on woops and jumps, the DRZ works better.

I think the WRR has great potential. Sort out the suspension, shave off weight to 275lbs , get 1-2 more horsepower and maintain the reliability and comfort of a dual sport.
Another $1500 would take care of this. Shog
Or get Husky FE350S. Maybe the bike I should have got.  Very happy
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66T

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PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Fri May 13, 2016 6:18 pm

The WR250R is a trailbike eg a modern XL250 or XT250. The KTM is a competition bike. Why do people keep expecting the WR to be something it isn't? Some people insist on comparing it to DRZ400s and even KTM690s! Trolls anyone?

As above, impossible to enjoy a badly set-up (or not even) bike. Also, new knobbies on dry ground are rubbish imo. Try a trials tyre and you'll see what I mean. While AC10s are a tough tyre, they aren't too stable when new. Much better when worn a bit and run at low pressures, again imo. I used them exclusively for thousands of km at work for some years, and found them very robust and long-wearing. However, I've found the D606s suit my WR very well on the rear - but they're still a knobby...

I strongly suggest the OP sets his bike up properly. The clickers do make a difference to the WR. I stuffed up my settings last year and it bit me hard (geriatric moment, I'm afraid).

End of book Very happy
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Thekeeper




PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Sat May 14, 2016 2:07 am

First of all thanks for all the comments and advices.

Gonna install rim locks soon and then ill go 12 psi rear 14 front and i assume it should solve the tyres grip problem. About the suspension now i understand it requires much more tuning than i thought. Will test the setup mensioned here and report
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rarepartbuilder

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PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Sat May 14, 2016 9:44 am

Biglake wrote:
wwguy wrote:

It's also worth noting that DOT-rated knobbies have very stiff sidewalls.  I've been dropping the pressure on my Dunlop D606 tires looking for a softer ride and more traction.  I'm currently running 12 psi and would like to drop lower but am afraid of spinning a tire without rim locks.  I just put a Tubliss system on my Beta Xtrainer and will do the same to my WRR as soon as I recover from spontaneously buying the Beta to ride where I can't with my WRR.  The only downside to Tubliss or rim locks on the WRR is that the wheels should be balanced and weighted if you do any significant higher speed highway riding

I found a good/easy way to balance out rim locks, I seen it on another bike site years ago but forget which.
You put a strip of stick on car weights that weigh the same as the rim lock under the rim strip across from the rim lock then bury them in tape so they cant cut the tube.
I did this to my wrr in 2013 and the wheels still don't shake, we did my brothers klx this spring and hes liking the shake free ride at speed now. thumb
If you buy motion pro lite locks the package states how much the rim locks weigh, this is what I have, with oem rim locks you will need to weigh them on a small scale.
This will also work to balance out the rim lock in the tubliss system. thumb

There is a cheap.. readily available way to add weight,,, even if only to micro balance tires after installing weight "inside" the rim as Biglake has kindly pointed out for rim locks.

I static balance with a rod through the wheel on balance stands
then:
single wrap solid {resin free} lead solder around the spoke opposing the balance problem ..start wrapping adjacent to the rim towards hub.... Once wrapped snug by hand to balance using 3 or four spokes as needed {1 inch of vertical wrap usually does the trick} ...take needle nose pliers to hold solder end next to rim and tighten top edge of soldier coil with second pair of needle nose... when tightened this way..stuff never falls off or loosens and has been on for thousands of kms until the tire wears out ,,,, If 4 spokes doesn't do the trick.. i just cut off the soldier from the two weighted center spokes of the 4 and apply a coil the same way but 1/2" or so longer/ further towards the hub ... and proceed from there... Peace YAM

Bill
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Jens Eskildsen




PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Sat May 14, 2016 1:28 pm

I just balance mine by mounting it on the swingarm, without mounting the chain and brake caliper.
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zone47

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PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Sat May 14, 2016 5:12 pm

I've never thought mine was too good off road either. I'm used to real dirt bikes and that's probably where the difference is. I figure the bike is ok on fire trails or minor back road adventures, but on anything really demanding, it's a bit too heavy. dunno
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66T

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PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Sun May 15, 2016 12:10 am

It's all a matter of perspective. I disagree about the WR being a soft trail bike. It's well capable of bumping over very rough country, but not at enduro bike speeds unless the suspension is modified.
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Thekeeper




PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Sun May 15, 2016 1:42 am

I were searching for info on the rear shock and ppl claim it has too strong rebound. So how come setting it 3 clicks out on rebound help here? Wouldnt it make it worse? I did feel the bike trying to kick me away when i rode it
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VW_Lee

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PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Sun May 15, 2016 2:49 am

I was also pretty disappointed with the suspension when I first took my WR to the desert, but then I had the shock set up by an MX shop. They set the valving and sag for my weight, and set the clickers to a good starting point. I have since firmed up both clickers. The forks didn't seem to need anything more than some adjustments. The bike now has a pretty good suspension for a Japanese dual sport. It does reasonably well on everything except whoops, where it is horrible.

I'm curious as to why you switched from a KTM EXC to a WR. I've had my WR for three years now, and I plan on buying a 500 EXC before next desert season. The WR simply isn't cutting it anymore, and I'm only chasing a couple of guys on quads around. My initial plan is to keep the WR, as it works pretty well on the forest service fire roads. Is that mainly the type of riding you do?

Lee
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Thekeeper




PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Sun May 15, 2016 5:24 am

The exc is an exelent bike. Good power (i had 2 stroke), very light weight and the suspension can literaly tackle anything if you have the guts to try and for some hard objects, the skill.
Its like point it to the direction, gas it and your there with minimum effort.

Problem is, i now need a bike for on road aswell. Since here insurance is terribly high i wanted to obtain the best dualsport that can go on road yet do as far as possible off road.

It were drz vs wr250r. I usually ride single tracks and hard terrain. Care less about speed and more technical. So the wr250r being lighter and abit more advanced seemed right
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nin01

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PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Sun May 15, 2016 5:57 am

I wasn't thrilled by it at 1st. the stock tyres had to go.
i changed to proper dirt tyres
changed sprocket
Now i dont mind it at all.

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Biglake




PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Sun May 15, 2016 7:37 am

Thekeeper wrote:
I were searching for info on the rear shock and ppl claim it has too strong rebound. So how come setting it 3 clicks out on rebound help here? Wouldnt it make it worse? I did feel the bike trying to kick me away when i rode it

This is just guys describing things differently.
Too strong rebound=too fast.

Even with the rebound adjusted to max slow (3 clicks out) its still too fast and will kick the rear of the bike up in the air when you hit 4-8 inch bumps or whoops.
You can lessen this effect by keeping your body weight further back than you would on your ktm and don't let off the gas.
When I rode my kx or gasgas I'd stay centered on the bike while hitting small bumps and be fine, on the wrr I stay as far back as I can get and only get my weight forward for corners, I have revalved and fixed the shock but the bikes still a bit front heavy and works best when you keep your body weight way to the rear. thumb

I ride with race bikes most of the time, with my revalved suspension they can only get ahead of me on long sandy straights due to having more power and on mx tracks cause im chicken on big jumps.
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Thekeeper




PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Sun May 15, 2016 11:05 am

Lets sort things put here please..
3 clicks out means turning the adjuster right till the end then open 3 clicks out..

You ment turning to the left then 3 right?
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Biglake




PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Sun May 15, 2016 4:21 pm

Clockwise till it bottoms out then 3 clicks out from that. thumb

Suspension settings (clicks) are always counted from all the way in.
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Thekeeper




PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Sun May 15, 2016 4:31 pm

Thats what i did.. Very bouncy this way droooool
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SWOman




PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Mon May 16, 2016 8:36 am

Biglake and Thekeeper - am still a little confused. Folks seems to say the ideal rebound is max. plus 3 clicks. To me that would be firming the rebound and making it worse. If I read Biglake correctly, you want to to go to the min. setting (all the way to the left or clockwise) and then 3 clicks to the right (towards (a) in the manual). Correct?
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Thekeeper




PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Mon May 16, 2016 9:15 am

I am thinking just like you. But im new to this bike and the ppl here woth more exp say differently.. Wonder too why
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CRFan1




PostSubject: Re: Rode my wr250r first time offroad. Abit dissappointed.    Mon May 16, 2016 9:32 am

As has been stated....you want MAX rebound...all the way in until it bottoms and then 3 clicks out. Even in that setting that pathetic shock has very little rebound damping, lol.
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