WRR stranded on Bull Run trail in Sequoia Nat'l Park - Help!

Hi everyone,

I was on a trail ride in the Sierras over the weekend when my bike left me stranded.

Background:

The bike was riding perfectly fine up to the point that it quit running. I came to a stop and the engine began to sputter. It died, so I tried to restart. It fired a few times and then sputtered and stalled.
Subsequent attempts to start it resulted in no firing at all, only the starter spinning the motor over. I removed the tank and checked the plug. I'm getting spark, but the fuel pump is no longer priming. I hear the click of the relay under the seat/side panel. I checked that the kill switch was in the proper position, and I checked all fuses. I made sure the kickstand was either up, or the transmission was in neutral while attempting to start it. I did not, however, check the kickstand switch to see if it was faulty.


Plan:

I will hike the trail back to the bike with several parts and tools. I'm planning on taking a fuel pump, kickstand switch and extra battery (I ran the other one down a little trying to diagnose it). I'll need to hike over 3 miles and 1200' vertical to reach the bike, but thankfully the bike is downhill from the access road where I'll camp. However, if I can't get the bike running I'll need to hike back out too, and that's going to be tough to do (again!), especially since this is all at 6500' elevation. There's no other way to retrieve the bike, aside from a helicopter, as the trail is just too technical.



Questions:

Can anyone tell me exactly which tools I will need to make those repairs? It looks like I'll need a set of torx drivers for the fuel pump, but I can't tell which size they are from pictures. I'll bring all the usual things, but I need to know if there's anything special to replace the pump. I've taken it out when putting in the bigger tank, but I don't remember that far back.

Are there any other parts/items that anyone can recommend taking along? I really only want to do this once, so I'm going to take as many parts as possible with me.

Thanks for any help you may be able to provide!

Oh, and I plan on doing this recovery this coming weekend, Saturday 6/18/16.

capn

capnkurt wrote:

Hi everyone,

I was on a trail ride in the Sierras over the weekend when my bike left me stranded.

Background:

The bike was riding perfectly fine up to the point that it quit running.  I came to a stop and the engine began to sputter.  It died, so I tried to restart.  It fired a few times and then sputtered and stalled.
Subsequent attempts to start it resulted in no firing at all, only the starter spinning the motor over.  I removed the tank and checked the plug.  I'm getting spark, but the fuel pump is no longer priming. I hear the click of the relay under the seat/side panel.  I checked that the kill switch was in the proper position, and I checked all fuses.  I made sure the kickstand was either up, or the transmission was in neutral while attempting to start it.  I did not, however, check the kickstand switch to see if it was faulty.


Plan:

I will hike the trail back to the bike with several parts and tools.  I'm planning on taking a fuel pump, kickstand switch and extra battery (I ran the other one down a little trying to diagnose it). I'll need to hike over 3 miles and 1200' vertical to reach the bike, but thankfully the bike is downhill from the access road where I'll camp.  However, if I can't get the bike running I'll need to hike back out too, and that's going to be tough to do (again!), especially since this is all at 6500' elevation.  There's no other way to retrieve the bike, aside from a helicopter, as the trail is just too technical.



Questions:

Can anyone tell me exactly which tools I will need to make those repairs?  It looks like I'll need a set of torx drivers for the fuel pump, but I can't tell which size they are from pictures. I'll bring all the usual things, but I need to know if there's anything special to replace the pump.  I've taken it out when putting in the bigger tank, but I don't remember that far back.

Are there any other parts/items that anyone can recommend taking along?  I really only want to do this once, so I'm going to take as many parts as possible with me.

Thanks for any help you may be able to provide!

Oh, and I plan on doing this recovery this coming weekend, Saturday 6/18/16.

capn

Well if possible check out another WRR before you tackle the fuel pump so you can get an idea of what you are going to have to do.

The WRR fuel pump uses regular metric Allen wrenches for the bolts - not Torx. I think it is a 5mm size but not sure.

Once you get the tank loose you will need to disconnect the electrical and fuel line. The electrical connection has a release tab and so does the fuel line. The fuel line can be a real bugger to get off. You need to pull down a little plastic cover then squeeze the two sides of the fitting to release it. I struggle with this so I use a couple of wire tie ends between my fingers and release tabs on the connector to release it. Usually I squeeze and twist the fuel line until it comes off.

Depending on your fuel tank you will need to remove the shrouds as well in order to remove the tank. I am pretty sure all the tools you need should be in the WRR tool kit.

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the response. I did end up taking the tank off on the trail and removed the electrical and fuel lines while trying to diagnose the issue. It was helpful having others present to help press in the blue tabs. I'll have to figure out how to do this on my own, but I know I did it once already when changing to a larger IMS tank. Your tip about using the wire tie ends will be great. Thanks for clarifying about the allen keys. I'll make sure to bring both, just in case.

capn

Okay, I've been looking around for a new kickstand switch, and it looks like they're backordered until at least July 31st of this year. They are nowhere to be found. So, can I just remove the switch and then tie the wires together like I've read on the forum? Is this a modification that is guaranteed to work and bypass the switch?

Thanks,

capn

capnkurt wrote:

Okay, I've been looking around for a new kickstand switch, and it looks like they're backordered until at least July 31st of this year.  They are nowhere to be found.  So, can I just remove the switch and then tie the wires together like I've read on the forum?  Is this a modification that is guaranteed to work and bypass the switch?

Thanks,

capn

I personally have not done that on my WRR but I did on my old DR650 and it worked.

If you bring an electrical meter you can check the switch to see if it is working by checking continuity across the leads in the up and down position.

Yikes! I feel for you. I often ride solo in remote rugged country and this is my second-worse nightmare (right behind losing my bike beyond ability to recover off of a steep mountainside.)

Not sure how far from home and friends you are, but perhaps you might be able to beg, borrow, or rent another bike to go back and forth on the trail until you get this one running again. Then you could hike in for the final ride out with your bike.

Don't forget to check that pesky kill switch connector. I've read od several people having problems after it inadvertently came unplugged.

http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/yamaha-wr250r-mega-thread.329337/page-2042#post-23748014
http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/665530-wr250x-wont-start-after-crash/

The sputtering you described makes me think that's probably not your problem though.

capnkurt wrote:

Okay, I've been looking around for a new kickstand switch, and it looks like they're backordered until at least July 31st of this year.  They are nowhere to be found.  So, can I just remove the switch and then tie the wires together like I've read on the forum?  Is this a modification that is guaranteed to work and bypass the switch?

Yes. I removed mine last winter and bypassed it this way. I know you need to eliminate this as a possibility but I think it's unlikely this is the problem.

Thanks guys!

I'll definitely bring my meter - thanks, Bob!

wwguy, that's a great idea about using another bike to get mine running first. I am absolutely going to try and get that lined up.

I've been thinking of ways to make the process quicker, and I've still got my original gas tank...so, I was thinking that I could put the new pump in that and then all I would have to
do is remove the current tank/pump and make a quick/er switch-out. Also, that way I won't have to worry so much about fuel spillage. I'm just not sure how easy it will be to transport the bigger IMS tank on the trail. Do you guys know if the fuel pump comes with a gasket to affix it to the tank, or would I have to buy a new one for the old tank? I'm pretty sure I swapped the old gasket to the new tank when I changed them out.

Thanks again, fellas - great ideas!

capn

capnkurt wrote:

Thanks guys!  

I'll definitely bring my meter - thanks, Bob!

wwguy, that's a great idea about using another bike to get mine running first.  I am absolutely going to try and get that lined up.  

I've been thinking of ways to make the process quicker, and I've still got my original gas tank...so, I was thinking that I could put the new pump in that and then all I would have to
do is remove the current tank/pump and make a quick/er switch-out.  Also, that way I won't have to worry so much about fuel spillage.   I'm just not sure how easy it will be to transport the bigger IMS tank on the trail.  Do you guys know if the fuel pump comes with a gasket to affix it to the tank, or would I have to buy a new one for the old tank?  I'm pretty sure I swapped the old gasket to the new tank when I changed them out.

Thanks again, fellas - great ideas!

capn

What size tank do you have on there now?

I don't believe the gasket comes with the fuel pump so you probably should order that. You may be able to use some bungee cords or rox straps to tie the other tank down on the back of the bike.

Hi Bob,

I've got the IMS 3 gallon (I think?) on there now. I did order a new O-ring. After thinking about it more, I would need to order the bracket as well (the aluminum ring that actually holds the pump in the tank), and unfortunately, those are backordered until August of this year. So, I ditched the idea of taking my factory tank with pump installed. I'll have to do the complete swap in the field. However, I borrowed a big backpack from someone at work and will be able to take a small container into which I can pour the gas from my tank. It will make it much easier to work on if I don't have to worry about fuel spilling everywhere. I bought some bear spray from REI and some hiking boots so that I won't have to wear my motocross boots to hike in. I think I'm prepared for this rescue, other than packing the tools that I'll need. The pump, O-ring, and extra bolts came in at Funbike Center in San Diego today, so I should be set for heading out on Friday. Thanks again to you guys for providing help - I really appreciate it!

capn

Good luck and keep us informed! It should be a straight forward swap and I am sure the oring etc. Will be just fine. bring some lithium grease or silicone to freshen up the o-ring after you remove it....

Here are some more things you might consider bringing:

• Wire/electrical tape/zip ties/rubber bands/etc. in case you need to do any rewiring or you accidentally yank or break a wire. Those things can also be used to secure loose parts or jury rig a fix until you get out.
  
  Print out the wiring diagram we see referenced so often. Make a couple copies so when you sweat all over one you have more.
  
  Pens/markers/paper.
  
  A tarp or sheet to put parts on while you work. In a pinch you can use it for shelter.
  
  A strong magnet for that damn nut you drop in the dirt.
  
  More water than you think you need and a means to clean more.
  
  Towels, rags, whatever. You might need to pinch a loaf, so think about that.
  
  Gloves.
  
  First aid supplies. Once you slam a knuckle on a bolt it's gonna suck to get gas on it.
  
  ViseGrips or needle nose plies and those rubber bands from above.
  
  A friend.
  

+1 for the suggestion to carry lots of water and a means to filter more if necessary.  Giardia bacteria is nasty painful stuff.  I sometimes carry a lightweight filter like this in my pack when riding far from the trailhead.

capnkurt wrote:

I bought some bear spray from REI and some hiking boots so that I won't have to wear my motocross boots to hike in.

FWIW I don't think you have much to worry about regarding bears unless you've been specifically advised otherwise by a park ranger etc.  California has only black bears and no grizzlies.  I've spent my life living, working, and playing in black bear habitat, including over a dozen encounters in the wild.  Black bears are generally shy and averse to interaction with people.  If you're quiet you can often observe them for a bit before they wander away.  If you want them to leave faster just wave your arms and make some noise.  I've got several firearms capable of protecting myself from bears but never feel the need to carry them in the woods.

Also, just in case you don't already know, bear spray is illegal in Sequoia National park.  If you do carry it you should probably keep it hidden from your fellow humans (the most dangerous animals IMHO.)

I know this is incredibly inconvenient for you.  It's great to see you treating it like another grand adventure.  I bet it's beautiful there this time of year.  Wish I lived closer so I could help you out!

Guys - great list of items to take, but I'm not sure which wiring diagram it is that you're referring to, Todd - can you provide a link?

My backpack is going to be getting heavy, I hope the little WRR will be able to climb the massive hill to get me out with all that extra weight on it!

wwguy, thanks for the advice about the bear spray! I hadn't realized that it was illegal where I was headed, but the real reason I bought it is for big cats. If I end up being alone out there for the repair, I'll undoubtedly be hunched over while working, and the cats (if around and stalking) tend to attack while we're prone. I've heard that this spray works for them as well as bears, and if I do get attacked, just maybe I'll be able to get a squeeze of that stuff off while being bitten in the neck. I wasn't worried in the least while hiking out of there the first time, but I figured I'd rather have it and not need it... you know the saying.

I have been in touch with the rangers that are working this weekend, and they mentioned that they will likely be able to be present while I'm there. That would be a big help.

I was also considering the tilt angle sensor - any reason I should be worried that this might be the culprit? Is it an item that fails? I searched for topics relating to it and didn't really turn anything up, other than what's inside of it (and that seems pretty unlikely to fail).

Thank again,

capn

capnkurt wrote:

I was also considering the tilt angle sensor - any reason I should be worried that this might be the culprit?  Is it an item that fails?  I searched for topics relating to it and didn't really turn anything up, other than what's inside of it (and that seems pretty unlikely to fail).

I don't think that's the problem. When the lean angle sensor is active the display shows fault code 30. If this happens while riding the engine trouble light comes on and fault code 30 is displayed. After the bike is upright you have to turn the ignition key off and then back on again to clear the fault and start the bike. If the lean angle sensor is still preventing the bike from starting you'll see the engine trouble light flashing and the code displayed when you try to start the bike.

Thanks, wwguy. Glad to hear that. What exactly is the engine trouble light that you speak of? Is it the orange lit light that looks like an engine? That was on the whole time I tried to crank the engine over while diagnosing - is it supposed to do that until the engine starts? I've never paid any attention to those lights since I bought the bike in 2010. The only one I look at is the neutral indicator.

Thanks,

capn

Yes, that's the light.  Function and operation are covered in the owner's manual.  When you turn the key on it should come on for a few seconds and then go off.  Not coming on at all or not going off are both bad.  The Owner's Manual basically just says that you should see a Yamaha dealer if the light stays on, but the Service Manual explains how to access and review the fault codes.

Now would be a good time to Google for "wr250r service manual" and download the 2008 service manual in PDF format from jaidnet.com.  (The manual is copyright protected so posting the file or direct link here is prohibited by forum rules.) It also contains the wiring diagrams discussed previously.

Specifically you might want to review the ECU Self-Diagnostic Function section that begins on page 8-31 and the Troubleshooting section in chapter 9.

capnkurt wrote:

Guys - great list of items to take, but I'm not sure which wiring diagram it is that you're referring to, Todd - can you provide a link?

capn

Here you go: http://keysdog.com/YamahaWR/WR250RX%20Wiring%20Diagram.jpg

Great! Thank you guys! I should be well-prepared.

capn

Sent you a PM.

Thank you all for the advice. I took all the items recommended, plus a few extras and when everything was packed into the bag, it weighed close to 50lbs. It was tough walking downhill with all that extra weight, and today my legs are pretty sore.

I used my gps this time and the bike turned out to be 1.97 miles from the trail exit and the descent was 1175' vertical.

Once I arrived at the bike, which hadn't been touched, I started to lay out towels to begin work. At that point, I realized I should probably try to start it first, just in case...

Well, turning the key prompted a nice, loud priming fuel pump. A push of the starter button fired it right up. Ended up riding out without having to do any work after all. Took 20 minutes to get the bike to the trail exit, and I ended up dumping once in an especially tricky section. Couldn't believe how tiring it was riding up that last part of the trail, and the bike did absolutely fine with the extra weight, despite my doubts.

Again, thank you to all that responded to my plea for help!

capnkurt wrote:

Thank you all for the advice.  I took all the items recommended, plus a few extras and when everything was packed into the bag, it weighed close to 50lbs.  It was tough walking downhill with all that extra weight, and today my legs are pretty sore.

I used my gps this time and the bike turned out to be 1.97 miles from the trail exit and the descent was 1175' vertical.  

Once I arrived at the bike, which hadn't been touched, I started to lay out towels to begin work.  At that point, I realized I should probably try to start it first, just in case...

Well, turning the key prompted a nice, loud priming fuel pump.  A push of the starter button fired it right up.  Ended up riding out without having to do any work after all.  Took 20 minutes to get the bike to the trail exit, and I ended up dumping once in an especially tricky section.  Couldn't believe how tiring it was riding up that last part of the trail, and the bike did absolutely fine with the extra weight, despite my doubts.

Again, thank you to all that responded to my plea for help!

Glad it worked out and wise move to try and start it first.

Does sound like your fuel pump is on the way out. Usually when they get warm they stop working and once they cool off they will work again. This will go on for a bit and then nada. I had a 2010 TE250 that did this and I would have to park it in the shade for about an hour to let things cool down and then I could get it started again.

Thanks, Bob. I'll be swapping that pump out, for sure. It saved a bunch of time and headache not having to do it on the trail though.

capn