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 Temperature That WR250R Fan Comes On and Goes Off.

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DSO




PostSubject: Temperature That WR250R Fan Comes On and Goes Off.   Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:19 pm

At what water temperature does the WRR radiator cooling fan come on? At what temp does it go off?


Thanks...Phil
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66T

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PostSubject: Re: Temperature That WR250R Fan Comes On and Goes Off.   Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:54 pm

I've searched my workshop manual for this, because I needed to find the info when I was having cooling difficulties during sustained low-speed/idle conditions in hot weather using a std-bore aftermarket cylinder/piston assembly. Couldn't find it anywhere, but I'd like to know.

Having said that, I think I read it somewhere, but buggered if I can remember where. Sigh. Another geriatric moment. Sorry.

But I'll keep looking.
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DSO




PostSubject: Re: Temperature That WR250R Fan Comes On and Goes Off.   Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:08 am

I understand 'senior moments'...I have emailed and posted many sources and nobody has given me the temps...voltage/amp check on fan jumps at 176 degrees [F]...so I am guessing the fan probably starts just above this but I would like to really know and not just guess!

Phil
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66T

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PostSubject: Re: Temperature That WR250R Fan Comes On and Goes Off.   Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:50 am

OK. The nearest I can find is information from an owner with a Thermometer built into his radiator cap.

He says: Fan on at 220 deg F (104 deg C)
            Fan off at 200 degF (93 Deg C)

These temps seem a few degrees too cool to me, because our stock 1.1 bar (about 15 psi, I think) radiator cap increases the coolant boiling point to around 260deg F (around 126 deg C). It does, however, cover the fact that even with the red coolant overtemp warning light on for up to half an hour at a time (this is a work bike. I couldn't just leave what I was supposed to be doing and race around cooling off the engine ad infinitum), the Yamaha coolant did not boil at any point. Thus I'm absolutely satisfied that stock coolant is more than adequate. If my engine boils using this stuff, there's something badly wrong.
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66T

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PostSubject: Re: Temperature That WR250R Fan Comes On and Goes Off.   Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:10 am

More info. I also own a 2010 XT660Z Tenere. I have found definitive figures of: On at 102 deg C, Off at 95 deg C: for its cooling fan.

So it seems I was wrong, and the radiator cap thermometer is pretty much accurate. Maybe even a couple of degrees hot. I think the Yamaha would have a fairly standard engine temperature range for its products, which still allows for a decent safety margin when using its coolant. Though that's obviously just my opinion, and might be total bs.
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DSO




PostSubject: Re: Temperature That WR250R Fan Comes On and Goes Off.   Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:04 pm

Hey...that all makes sense....I am flushing system and filling with Engine Ice coolant...then when, if!, it warms up here I will run it and check with an IR Gun to establish the temps for fan operation...truly academic about temps, but this is a 'new to me' '08 and I want to confirm the fan is functioning and functioning correctly....

Thanks for your input.

Phil
NE Oregon
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asphaltaddict33




PostSubject: Re: Temperature That WR250R Fan Comes On and Goes Off.   Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:30 pm

DSO wrote:
...I am flushing system and filling with Engine Ice coolant...

Are you still running Engine Ice? Any opinions on if it is snake oil or effective product?
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DSO




PostSubject: Re: Temperature That WR250R Fan Comes On and Goes Off.   Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:52 pm

asphaltaddict33 wrote:
DSO wrote:
...I am flushing system and filling with Engine Ice coolant...

Are you still running Engine Ice? Any opinions on if it is snake oil or effective product?

No real way to assess the engine temp changes with Engine Ice...subjective only...completed 2,493 miles on BOM'17...off road Idaho, Montana and Wyoming...temps often in mid to high 90's..lots of slow speed 1-3 gear...and never had a 'boil over' or loss of any coolant that I can see from level in overflow tank...so, I am happy! Might mention this with FMF Q4 and FMF controller ...probably running a little rich [again who can tell] and still 65 mpg...oh, 10-40w Redline and oiled UNI filter from Oz...

Phil
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dicklane625

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PostSubject: Re: Temperature That WR250R Fan Comes On and Goes Off.   Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:19 pm

Those temp sounds hot to me... I guess I'm comparing them to the opening point of a cars thermostat which is normally way before the fan kicks on, so I guess they sound right.

I read engine ice is designed more to meet some track regulations on coolant. So if something happens and it leaks on the track the spill doesn't get as slippery. I have used it before, it didn't freeze or hurt the bike. I didn't run it for that long though, sold the machine I filled up with it. Have you ever compared corrosion in the cooling channels and rad after engine ice to other antifreeze? That would be my reason for running a premium coolant. The temp around here at the hottest barley touches 100f...
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DSO




PostSubject: Re: Temperature That WR250R Fan Comes On and Goes Off.   Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:39 pm

dicklane625 wrote:
Those temp sounds hot to me... I guess I'm comparing them to the opening point of a cars thermostat which is normally way before the fan kicks on, so I guess they sound right.

I read engine ice is designed more to meet some track regulations on coolant. So if something happens and it leaks on the track the spill doesn't get as slippery. I have used it before, it didn't freeze or hurt the bike. I didn't run it for that long though, sold the machine I filled up with it. Have you ever compared corrosion in the cooling channels and rad after engine ice to other antifreeze? That would be my reason for running a premium coolant. The temp around here at the hottest barley touches 100f...

Well...I am unclear what your points are...care to elaborate? Engine Ice is sold for off road motorcycle riding specifically; not just for racing.

Is it a superior product to "premium antifreeze"...no idea but reviewing the comments of those using this product off road it seems to lower max temps and does inhibit corrosion..have I compared the internal channels in the radiator before and after using Engine Ice..no.

But hey, I could be wrong! Very happy
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dicklane625

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PostSubject: Re: Temperature That WR250R Fan Comes On and Goes Off.   Thu Aug 24, 2017 6:41 pm

At first the temps sounded hot for the fan turning on and off, this has nada to do with coolant. I'll admit it was kinda pointless to say.

As for the engine ice, I don't remember all that well what they said. I remember that it was something about the chemical structure. It might have been for some dirt too. I could see some places and events having restrictions on what could get spilled, or the clean up process. But there were several people that weren't on the engine ice train.

I've taken apart water cooled single cylinder engines and found some nasty stuff in the cooling channels. They weren't that old, but I wasn't the only owner, so who knows if it was ever flushed. I don't know what that gunk was made of. I could see it making a difference in the temps by slowing circulation and/or by insulating the whole heat exchanging process. So I want to know if anyone has bought a motor new and ran it with a certain coolant for most of its life. At some point opened up that engine and not found any crap in the cooling channels. I realize a big part of this is probably routine maintenance. Does the coolant itself make a difference?
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Lane




PostSubject: Re: Temperature That WR250R Fan Comes On and Goes Off.   Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:01 pm

66T wrote:
OK. The nearest I can find is information from an owner with a Thermometer built into his radiator cap.

He says: Fan on at 220 deg F (104 deg C)
            Fan off at 200 degF (93 Deg C)

These temps seem a few degrees too cool to me, because our stock 1.1 bar (about 15 psi, I think) radiator cap increases the coolant boiling point to around 260deg F (around 126 deg C). It does, however, cover the fact that even with the red coolant overtemp warning light on for up to half an hour at a time (this is a work bike. I couldn't just leave what I was supposed to be doing and race around cooling off the engine ad infinitum), the Yamaha coolant did not boil at any point. Thus I'm absolutely satisfied that stock coolant is more than adequate. If my engine boils using this stuff, there's something badly wrong.

I rarely post, but i do look at posts for hints and knowledge. I'm on this thread because today my 2017 WR250R was running hot. Combination of slower trails and high temps here in Colorado. When I say hot, I am only comparing to what I know from my other bikes and cars.
Today is the first ride with the new Mylers Aluminum Radiator. I know that this thing must cool better than the crummy stock one (assuming there are no blockages) as it is much higher quality, thicker and clearly has more surface area. I was also out riding today with a Tusk radiator cap (for the first time) with temp gauge which regularly read in the 220F zone, but the fan did come on until temps were down in the 200F range. In my world, 220+ temps are getting pretty high and they did not drop like they do on My CBR1000RR. I guess ignorance is bliss when you don't have a temp gauge. I will do more research to see if the tusk cap works well, but is does show static temp in alignment with ambient temps when I park it in the driveway in the sun to make more room in the garage... it would seem that it works, but, i'll see what others have to say about it.
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rsteiger

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PostSubject: Re: Temperature That WR250R Fan Comes On and Goes Off.   Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:08 am

Lane wrote:
I know that this thing must cool better than the crummy stock one (assuming there are no blockages) as it is much higher quality, thicker and clearly has more surface area.

I would not be so quick to make that assumption.

If the radiator is made with a thicker gauge or different material or alloy it may actually decrease cooling performance which means the radiator will have to have more surface area to make up for the decreased efficiency.

The only way to know for sure is to test them back to back with some instrumentation.

I generally will stick to OEM on things like filters and radiators since most of the engine testing and prove out were done with those items.

Here is an example of differences between aftermarket and OEM.  Will these differences hurt the longevity of the bike - I have no idea but what I do know is the bike was tested and developed with the OEM items.

[/quote]
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johnkol




PostSubject: Re: Temperature That WR250R Fan Comes On and Goes Off.   Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:39 am

rsteiger wrote:
Here is an example of differences between aftermarket and OEM.

The reason why so many of us never take our bikes to the shop is because we know that morons like this guy in the video work there.
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rsteiger

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PostSubject: Re: Temperature That WR250R Fan Comes On and Goes Off.   Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:58 am

johnkol wrote:
rsteiger wrote:
Here is an example of differences between aftermarket and OEM.

The reason why so many of us never take our bikes to the shop is because we know that morons like this guy in the video work there.

LOL

All this time I thought it was your charming personality that had the shops turning you away.

While one may not agree with his conclusions.. I don't really think he had any other than the filters are different. The key for me is seeing the construction differences between the filters. The take away for me is that most of the Manufacturer's motor development and testing is performed with the OEM filter. Run something else and you can probably expect differences.

I use to go with the oil filter that was on sale but then ran into an issue with my Ninja 650r. In this case I was looking at a Fram filter and one shop listed the part number as PH-6017A and did not have any in stock. Went to the next shop and they listed the part number as PH-6017 and had them in stock.

Turns out that while either filter will fit, there are different flow specifications for the two filters. The Fram website lists the PH-6017A as the correct one for the Ninja 650R.

It really made me wonder who actually checks these filters against the OEM requirements and how does the manufacturer error proof the line to make sure that the filter is built to the correct specification. The internals of the 6017 filter will fit inside the 6017A and vice versa.
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johnkol




PostSubject: Re: Temperature That WR250R Fan Comes On and Goes Off.   Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:21 pm

rsteiger wrote:
While one may not agree with his conclusions.. I don't really think he had any other than the filters are different.  The key for me is seeing the construction differences between the filters.  The take away for me is that most of the Manufacturer's motor development and testing is performed with the OEM filter.  Run something else and you can probably expect differences.  

He wasn't just noting superficial differences, he was making derisive comments based on those meaningless differences. The clincher were his comments about the Hi-Flo filter: "how do they achieve a high flow?". "Hi-Flo" is the name of the company you drug-addled buffoon, not a claimed property of the filter.

You do know that Honda does not make oil filters, right? They don't make any motor oil either. An OEM makes these items for them, and Hi-Flo could very well be the company that provides oil filters to Honda with the "Honda" logo on them; for example, Honda oil in the US is made by Conoco Phillips.
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rsteiger

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PostSubject: Re: Temperature That WR250R Fan Comes On and Goes Off.   Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:00 pm

johnkol wrote:
He wasn't just noting superficial differences, he was making derisive comments based on those meaningless differences. The clincher were his comments about the Hi-Flo filter: "how do they achieve a high flow?". "Hi-Flo" is the name of the company you drug-addled buffoon, not a claimed property of the filter.

You do know that Honda does not make oil filters, right? They don't make any motor oil either. An OEM makes these items for them, and Hi-Flo could very well be the company that provides oil filters to Honda with the "Honda" logo on them; for example, Honda oil in the US is made by Conoco Phillips.

I guess some in this world have a hard time with sarcasm..

To me his comments on the 'Hi-Flo' filter were him bashing the marketing strategy behind the filter's name.

Not sure about superficial differences though since some of these like media type, media length, and relief settings are likely to have quite an impact on filter performance. I suspect that the bypass design and media selection probably have the biggest impacts since that would likely dictate the amount of pressure drop created and flow that an oil filter will handle.

You mean Honda doesn't make everything that has a Honda logo on it? OMG!!!! (hint - that is sarcasm). I doubt that Yamaha makes their own radiators as well - they are probably outsourced to another company who makes them to Yamaha specifications.

Most auto companies don't make a lot of their own stuff now either. Use to be you could pretty much count on the sheet metal and powertrain to be developed and manufactured by the OEM's but now a lot of that is outsourced as well. But here is the critical thing between OEM and Aftermarket. Those OEM components that are outsourced are made to the OEM specifications and they are also tested to the OEM specifications. Once you have met those requirements you cannot change the design or resource material without going through a validation process and re-certification. This process does vary from OEM to OEM but my experience has been that the Japanese OEM's are one of the more strict OEM when it comes to making changes to their parts. However, I think the Koreans are probably the most strict in that regard.

However, the big key is those are the components that are used for development and testing by the OEM and there is a layer of Quality Control and prove out that is not there in the aftermarket arena.

The parent company of Hi-Flo may very well make the Honda OEM filters (actually Toyo Roki makes the Honda OEM filters but maybe they make some for Hi-Flo?) but if they do then those filters are made to a much different specification than the 'Hi-Flo' version as was witnessed in the tear down results. Will this impact the life and performance of the engine? We could debate that all day but the engine was developed and tested with the OEM version and the performance is well documented by the OEM.

Everyone perceives value and quality in a different manner so spend your money how you wish. In my world there are certain things I am willing to pay a bit extra for when it comes to the engine on my WRR. I don't mind spending some extra money on the OEM filter since it has a known history with the product it is used on. Same for the radiator. I am sure Mylers makes a good durable radiator but they don't necessarily fit well in the application and the robustness may hinder the heat transfer rate.

Reminds me of a story from one of my friends who spent some time in Russia. He went there to work are one of their company's offices and needed to buy a washing machine. He asked the employees at the office and they all recommended the same washer. So he bought it. A week later it broke. He went into the office the next day and chided his coworkers for giving him bad advice but he then realized his perception of quality was different than theirs when they told him "yes, they do break a lot but they are very easy to fix".



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