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 Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).

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ryguy76




PostSubject: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:34 pm

Hi guys,

After lots of deliberation, reading and watching youtube videos, I've decided to get a WRR. I'm am expecting to close the deal in the next 24 hours or so but before I buy, I figured I'd pick your brain on the hot topic of break-in.

The dealer is located about 40 miles from my home and the ride home will be on some back roads and a 50mph country "highway" or I could do just the 50mph highway and omit the backroads. I haven't looked at the odometer so not sure if it's been test rode much, if any etc.

Here's the thing... I'm a "rule follower" and typically follow the manuals directions but have a 2013 Ford F150 5.0L that I babied during the break in and it's rather gutless for what it should be in my opinion. If the revs are high, it comes to life but low down it lugs along with a noticeable delay before it wakes up a bit as it hits higher rpms.

Being a bigger guy, I want to squeeze all the power I can out of this 250 so wondering if I want to go against the manual's break-in procedure and ride it more aggressively or stick with the manual.

Maybe it's moot because it may have already been ridden on demos enough and the break-in has effectively already begun based on those demo miles.... Thoughts?
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ryguy76




PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:02 pm

Lol. Apologies folks. I just googled "WR250R break-in" and have days of reading at my fingertips. If you care to comment, by all means do. Got a little trigger happy back there while wondering about my way home from the dealer and what would be the best approach.

At this point, I'm going to put it through its paces, but not overdo it. I'll vary the throttle/rpm's and use engine breaking. Likely do as much back roads as I can to be safer during the change of speeds.
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morgan9283




PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:39 pm

ryguy76 wrote:
Lol.  Apologies folks.  I just googled "WR250R break-in" and have days of reading at my fingertips.  If you care to comment, by all means do.  Got a little trigger happy back there while wondering about my way home from the dealer and what would be the best approach.

At this point, I'm going to put it through its paces, but not overdo it.  I'll vary the throttle/rpm's and use engine breaking.  Likely do as much back roads as I can to be safer during the change of speeds.

I bought mine new in '12 and did essentially what you describe.  I'm at 10k+ miles, much of them dirt, and the bike has strong and anecdotally seems fine guts-wise.

-morgan
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TwelveGaugeSage




PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:53 pm

Ride the shit out of it at first! Just make sure you vary the RPMs a bit and do your first oil change nice and early.
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ryguy76




PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:41 pm

Thanks guys.

I did end up signing the deal last night, but much to my surprise, they had a second that hadn't been built yet.  Still in it's shipping container.  I am getting that one so it'll be fresh as fresh gets.

Going to let it warm up for 10-15 mins, ride it up to mid-high in the RPM's (but not rev limiter high) use engine braking and stop after 10 mins of riding on way home to let it fully cool.  Cooling won't be an issue based on local temperatures now.  I imagine I'll stop twice on the 30 minute ride home.

The question I have still...  Should I change the oil right after that, or ride it for a bit longer (~100km's) before doing the first change? It's a 50km ride and have read that 20miles would be best to change the oil so this ride would qualify for that. Opinions on that?

Lastly... Do I need to replace the oil filter too or can it wait for the next one around the 300 mile mark?
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johnkol




PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:34 pm

ryguy76 wrote:
I did end up signing the deal last night, but much to my surprise, they had a second that hadn't been built yet.  Still in it's shipping container.  I am getting that one so it'll be fresh as fresh gets.

You do realise that all motorcycles (and their engines separately) are tested at the factory through a full cycle, so your "fresh" engine is actually well used.

ryguy76 wrote:
Going to let it warm up for 10-15 mins, ride it up to mid-high in the RPM's (but not rev limiter high) use engine braking and stop after 10 mins of riding on way home to let it fully cool.

This is one of the worst things you can do to your engine: motorcycles overheat when they are not moving, so idling it for 10 mins is not advisable.

Also, cooling/heating cycles are stressful on the engine, so it would be far better if you ride the bike without stopping.
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ryguy76




PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:58 pm

I know the motors get tested at the factory. I don't know to what extent. I was referring to how the demo bike may or may not have been ridden by the dealer staff and demo riders. Just meaning it's fresh for me to figure out the best way I see fit to break it in.

All the things I've read suggest making sure the motor is warmed up before starting the break-in. Are you saying that 10-15 minutes is too long or that the warm up doesn't need to happen at all? Are you also implying that the break-in is already done from the factory tests? I don't know much about motors so am trying to do what's best for the bike to not end up with it with less power than it should like my truck I mentioned above. I'm all ears if you have an opinion on what I should be doing. Thanks.
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johnkol




PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:20 pm

ryguy76 wrote:
All the things I've read suggest making sure the motor is warmed up before starting the break-in.  Are you saying that 10-15 minutes is too long or that the warm up doesn't need to happen at all?  Are you also implying that the break-in is already done from the factory tests?

The factory tests the engines at max RPM, but that does not mean that break-in is not required. Just don't go to extremes, like running WOT on the interstate, or constantly hitting the rev limiter, etc.

It's not really necessary to warm up the engine, but if it's particularly cold where you are, warming it up for 20 seconds will allow it to be more responsive while it is warming up en route. Again, be reasonable, don't pin it on a cold engine.
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ryguy76




PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:26 pm

johnkol wrote:
ryguy76 wrote:
All the things I've read suggest making sure the motor is warmed up before starting the break-in.  Are you saying that 10-15 minutes is too long or that the warm up doesn't need to happen at all?  Are you also implying that the break-in is already done from the factory tests?

The factory tests the engines at max RPM, but that does not mean that break-in is not required. Just don't go to extremes, like running WOT on the interstate, or constantly hitting the rev limiter, etc.

It's not really necessary to warm up the engine, but if it's particularly cold where you are, warming it up for 20 seconds will allow it to be more responsive while it is warming up en route. Again, be reasonable, don't pin it on a cold engine.

Sounds good. Thanks.

How does one know they hit the rev limiter?
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johnkol




PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:49 pm

ryguy76 wrote:
How does one know they hit the rev limiter?

The engine cuts off and you lose almost all power. Happens around 11,500 RPM, you'll definitely know when you hit it.
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ryguy76




PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:54 pm

johnkol wrote:
ryguy76 wrote:
How does one know they hit the rev limiter?

The engine cuts off and you lose almost all power. Happens around 11,500 RPM, you'll definitely know when you hit it.

Gotcha. I'll wait a bit before experimenting where it kicks in exactly. A guy has to know where it kicks in so he knows how much he can rev it in each gear before shifting, no? Very happy
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johnkol




PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:12 pm

ryguy76 wrote:
A guy has to know where it kicks in so he knows how much he can rev it in each gear before shifting, no?  Very happy

Under normal operation the WRR does not display a tach, so there is no way to know whether you are approaching the rev limiter or not; just be reasonable on how far you open the throttle.
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rsteiger

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PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:22 am

Johnkol has some good advice.

Most engines are hot tested at the factory so they have been run. I know in automotive the engine plant usually tests them and then they are usually tested at the assemble plant again on the end of line inspection.

I read a lot about peoples break in procedures and have been told by many how to break in my new bike - many of those have never bought a new bike and are certified Internet Engine Break In Experts. My advice to you is it is your money so break it in how you want to - if some one wants you to do it different then they can buy the bike and break it in however you want.

In my case I follow the manufacturers break in procedure with the only exception that I may change the oil a bit more frequently during break in. Usually one extra oil change after say 100 or 200 miles followed by the manufacturers recommendations after that. I have always thought that oil is cheap insurance so to speak.
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Jens Eskildsen




PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:34 pm

Bike will shut itself of after idling for 10mins.

Let it idle while you put on helmet and gloves, and ride it normally-ish but vary the throttle (accelerate, enginebrake)
Theres also no need whatsoever to let the bike "cool down" on your way home, it will take hours to let the engine fully cool anyway.
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ryguy76




PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:44 pm

Jens Eskildsen wrote:
Bike will shut itself of after idling for 10mins.

Let it idle while you put on helmet and gloves, and ride it normally-ish but vary the throttle (accelerate, enginebrake)
Theres also no need whatsoever to let the bike "cool down" on your way home, it will take hours to let the engine fully cool anyway.

Thanks for the info.

I already ditched the plan to stop for a cool down. Pretty much planning on doing it just the way you mention. A moderate approach followed up with an oil change after getting home. Cheers!
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66T

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PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:49 am

Fwiw, I was told by the mechanic who fitted my new cylinder(s) to ride the bike firmly on and off the throttle, up and down through the gears, in the hills on made roads for around 200km, then ride it normally. (Truly, WR250Rs would have to have the noisiest engines of any water-cooled single! Mine is on its third cylinder, through absolutely no fault of its own, and all three have sounded pretty much the same. Though perhaps the Athena stock bore assembly was a bit quieter, but not by much).

He also said that a couple of heat cycles ie stopping to let the motor cool for 10 minutes or so, is beneficial. Point being, it's not the entire engine that needs cooling off, rather the local wear points/hot spots present in any new engine components. Does not take long for them to normalise.

However, I think a new engine needs a bit longer than 200km, and at least one oil change at around that period surely can't do much harm. 1.4L? Cheap as chips insurance.


Btw, my bike has a 20-minute idle cut-off, I think. I believe you should not idle a new motor for more than a few minutes, especially those with plated bores. And may I suggest you use mineral oil when you do the first few oil changes. Apart from the cylinder and cam chain, everything else in my engine has done 36K using only mineral oil changed every 50 hours, and seems to be running just fine at >2,000 hrs.

Having said that, an engine that is always run moderately hard/hard would be better off with synthetic after being run in - probably.

Most of the above is, obviously, imo! I'm not trying to start an oil opinion war. Use whatever oil you want, but even so my results are hard evidence.
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dhally

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PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:53 pm

Ride it like you stole it. Most people sell looonnngggg before they wear out!
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ryguy76




PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:33 pm

Well, figured I'd post an update. I brought my 2017 WRR home with me on Tuesday and have been riding it as much as I can since. Getting pretty cold in western Canada, but the sun has been shining since Tuesday so it's been nice.

I LOVE this bike and am really happy with my decision to go WRR over the CRF250L that I initially expected to be the one I bought. I did an oil change after getting it home from the 50km trip from the dealer and that went well. I've not been hammering it, but not babying it either. Likely erring on the more cuatious side, not knowing exactly how close I'm getting to rev limiter, but I rev it pretty good through 1-4th gear. Likely half throttle or slightly more.

I've taken it off road a couple times to practice, and wow is it WAY more intimidating than a mountain bike. I'm decent on a mountain bike and the stuff that I wouldn't even think twice about while on a mountain bike is completely nerve wracking on this thing. I'm thinking I need to get more used to technical clutch usage and keeping the rpm's up over technical terrain. Riding the clutch is counter-intuitive for me but seems to be a necessity for off-road terrain. I could definitely feel my confidence increasing with each loop of the little track I discovered, but the combination of a brand new pristine bike and the weight/power of it beneath me will take some time to get over. I want to keep it looking nice, but also want to get the first scratch outta the way too, lol.
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TwelveGaugeSage




PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:19 pm

The stock gearing is way too tall for playing in the dirt. I took the risk of going to a 12 tooth front until I kill the stock chain, but the better option is to go with a bigger rear and new chain. Just going to the 12 tooth made a world of difference to me. The shorter you get the gearing, the less you will need the the clutch. Tires make a huge difference as well. I thought the stockers were terrible.

This can be a pretty intimidating bike to learn to ride in the dirt simply because of the weight. I have a KLX 140L and it is a lot more like a mountain bike to me.
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ryguy76




PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:51 pm

TwelveGaugeSage wrote:
The stock gearing is way too tall for playing in the dirt.  I took the risk of going to a 12 tooth front until I kill the stock chain, but the better option is to go with a bigger rear and new chain.  Just going to the 12 tooth made a world of difference to me.  The shorter you get the gearing, the less you will need the the clutch.  Tires make a huge difference as well.  I thought the stockers were terrible.

This can be a pretty intimidating bike to learn to ride in the dirt simply because of the weight.  I have a KLX 140L and it is a lot more like a mountain bike to me.  

Ya, was thinking that a rear sprocket change might be the first mod I make. Can I not go to a bit higher tooth count on rear and keep stock chain?

Would rear sprocket change make 2nd gear more useable? It's pretty much out of the question in technical areas at slow speed it seems now. First is ok, but I feel I need to change to 2nd quickly and then it's back to first when a technical part comes up. The downshift while moving forward into 1st is a tricky b***h.

Tires seem fine for what I'm doing at the moment, being that when I say "technical" I mean technical for me. Other riders would laugh, I'm sure. I had a hard time in some sand and loose gravel with the tires, but that's not what I want to be riding. I like the old, grown over, bumpy logging road stuff with some wide single track with whoops and stuff.
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TwelveGaugeSage




PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:41 am

The shorter your gearing, the more usable 2nd gear will become off road. You can go up to a 44 rear with the stock chain, but that won't net you much gain. That's why I decided to go to a 12 front until I kill the chain. If you go that route, you have to keep a close eye on your swing arm slider.

What makes the 2-1 downshift difficult for you?
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ryguy76




PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:52 pm

TwelveGaugeSage wrote:
The shorter your gearing, the more usable 2nd gear will become off road.  You can go up to a 44 rear with the stock chain, but that won't net you much gain.  That's why I decided to go to a 12 front until I kill the chain.  If you go that route, you have to keep a close eye on your swing arm slider.

What makes the 2-1 downshift difficult for you?

So If I only do back sprocket, and decide to do a new chain with it, what size is it best that'll give me that low end torque and not not take too much off the top end? To be honest, I don't really need to go over 60mph, but our faster highways are 75mph here, so would be nice to still get there if needed. I didn't buy this bike to ride the highways though so would still opt for low end over top speed anyway.

The 2-1 downshift isn't a big deal, but the rev matching is tough and the bike usually lurches some from 2nd to 1st while moving. I can rev match the other gears fine with smooth transitions but 2-1 has always been a problem with me on the bikes I had 20+ years ago. Usually would engine brake to a stop through the gears 'til 2nd and clutch in and apply front brake to come to a complete stop, then shift to 1st. Tips?
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TwelveGaugeSage




PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:54 pm

A lot of what is the "best" sprocket size is objective. I like shorter gearing and don't mind a bike that's a little "too short" for the highway, so I bought a 48 rear for when I wear out the chain. You may find it too short or you may find it not short enough. I haven't even tried it yet, so I may also all in that spectrum, though I suspect if anything it won't be short enough for me. Off-road I doubt even 51 would be too short.

As for shifting, are you not using the clutch to shift? I went through a phase years ago where I only used the clutch to stop, but now pretty much always use it, though I usually only clutch enough to make a smooth shift.

As for coming to a stop, I usually go down to first while coming to a stop, just in case I need to quickly maneuver.

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ryguy76




PostSubject: Re: Questions... (about to buy a new WR250R).    Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:16 pm

Gotcha on sprocket size. I'll be interested in your review of the 48 when you install it.

I do use the clutch, yes. Just the compression from 2nd to 1st while moving is never all that smooth for me. Maybe I need to ride the clutch more but I can blip the throttle to rev match and release the clutch for each downshift and it's smooth, with the exception of 1st.

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