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 Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!

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GusinCA

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PostSubject: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Thu May 24, 2018 2:05 pm

I wish Yamaha would make a WR400R or something to compete with this:

https://adventuremotorcycle.com/news/2019-honda-crf450l

If this is indeed more powerful, lighter, reliable and fuel injected, it will kill the sale of the WR250R...
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pumpernickelBrad




PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Thu May 24, 2018 2:24 pm

Reading the article, I get the impression it's more of a legalized version of the current off road bikes. I'd expect similar service intervals, etc. I don't think the WR has much to worry about with KTM, Husky, Beta all having similar bikes to the CRF.

Now if it has a similar service interval and robustness as the 250L, that would be something to worry about.
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GusinCA

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PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Thu May 24, 2018 2:30 pm

Looks like they are making the service intervals much longer

https://newatlas.com/honda-crf450l-road-legal-motocross/

I really hope Yamaha steps up, I still prefer their bikes to any other brand.
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pumpernickelBrad




PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Thu May 24, 2018 2:36 pm

Boy am I glad to be corrected!

I guess the down side is that it's nearing twice the price of the WR...
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johnkol




PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Thu May 24, 2018 3:26 pm

GusinCA wrote:
Looks like they are making the service intervals much longer

Where did you see that? The article mentions Major overhauls are every 20k miles, implying a new top-end; this is a far cry from the 26k mile valve check for the WRR.

Oil changes are speculated at 1000 mile intervals:

Quote :
There's 20,000 miles (32,000 km) between major strip-downs, partially due to the L running three piston rings instead of the R's one. Mind you, don't expect this thing to act like a touring bike. The 450R needs an oil change every five hours of use, so even if the 450L manages to triple that you'll still be putting oil in it frequently if you try to rack up miles.
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GusinCA

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PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Thu May 24, 2018 3:51 pm

Well, it said three rings instead of one to make oil changes less regular, and I'm not worried about a major overhaul at 26,000 miles.
Still if it's got Honda reliability (instead of KTM liability) and a powerful 450 motor and well under 300 pounds wet, that is a bike I would certainly pick over the WR...
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eram310




PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Thu May 24, 2018 5:20 pm

I personally use the WR250R 90% off road. I ride dual sport (2 track) and trail ride (2 track, single track, hill climbs) with it.
I also ride a Super Tenere on gravel roads and pavement. The ST~ 4000 miles/year, the WR250R~ 1000 miles/year. I don't think I will have service interval issues with the CRF450L
A well sorted out WR250R with modified suspension, taller handlebar and revised gearing is a very good bike for the recreational off road rider. If there are any limitations, there are mostly myself.
Nevertheless, if$11,000 was not an issue, I think this is a very viable replacement. I don’t need it, but I want one. It even has a natural green indication light and cush drive like the WR250R that I do not believe any of the European off-road/Dual Sport have.

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johnkol




PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Fri May 25, 2018 4:18 pm

GusinCA wrote:
Well, it said three rings instead of one to make oil changes less regular, and I'm not worried about a major overhaul at 26,000 miles.

According to the European Honda site, oil change intervals are every 600 miles!
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GusinCA

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PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Fri May 25, 2018 5:01 pm

That's too often for my taste.
Maybe I'll keep my old bulletproof WR after all... :)
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rsteiger

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PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Sat May 26, 2018 7:29 am

johnkol wrote:
GusinCA wrote:
Well, it said three rings instead of one to make oil changes less regular, and I'm not worried about a major overhaul at 26,000 miles.

According to the European Honda site, oil change intervals are every 600 miles!

Read an interview with one of the Product Development guys who said they were going to decrease the mileage interval on the L model due to it's exposure to street use and the low oil volume it uses in the case.

To me it sounds a lot like a KTM EXC model except it is red. Which isn't a bad thing but in my world will not work as well as my WRR given the way I use it.

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paulie1960




PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Sun May 27, 2018 9:38 am

Hate to say it but the hard core enduro, harescramble guys are just going to buy the racing version 250, 450 and plate them instead of buying the the 450l and 50/50 dual sport rider are not going to pay $11000 for a dual sport, yamaha just has to upgrade the wr250r, bore and stroke it to 310 and take 15lb of fastening hardware off of it and sell it for $5999, or honda bring back a electric start 250lb air cooled xr400l 6th speed and sell it for 5999, or susuki add 6th gear, FI to the drz400 and take 20LB off of it and sell it for $6999, and those bikes will sell,
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TwelveGaugeSage




PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Sun May 27, 2018 4:56 pm

The X model it is based on only has about 45 hp and I have seen two articles claiming it will only have 25. Even at 45 hp it is heavier and short 15 hp on Betas and KTMs that it shares price and maintenance intervals with. Nothing is set in stone yet, but short of being a total Honda fanboy, I don't see anyone choosing this over the KTM or Beta models. Hell, if those sources are right about 25 hp(not likely), you would have to be nutso to choose one over a WR250R.

A lot of people think this is the bike we have been waiting for, but it's really nothing new. Now a 450 under 300 pounds with around 45 hp and WR250R maintenance? I'd be first in line.
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GusinCA

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PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Mon May 28, 2018 12:57 pm

I agree.
45hp and well under 300 pounds and a WR250 maintenance intervals would be my first choice.
I'm never buying anything other than Yamaha or Honda though.
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TwelveGaugeSage




PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Mon May 28, 2018 6:06 pm

I'm not so picky about brands. I've owned a bunch of Kawasakis and been happy with all of them. KTM makes me a little nervous, but Beta seems to have a decent track record despite a spotty dealer network. I'm pretty wary of the Chinese brands, but the new SWMs look intriguing.
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rsteiger

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PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Tue May 29, 2018 8:56 pm

Well according to several sites apparently making the X motor Euro 4 compliant has really robbed the bike of any power.

Honda reports 25HP and 23.6 ft-lb of torque for the bike. Plus you still get 600 mile oil changes and 20,000 mile top end work.

I hope to god that is a typo on the Honda's part. http://www.hondaprokevin.com/2019-honda-crf450l-review-specs-motorcycle-dual-sport
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GusinCA

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PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Tue May 29, 2018 9:49 pm

What does the WR make?
How about the KTM450EXC?
I'll tell you what, regulations are getting tighter and tighter here in California. For example, I just bought my daughter a new Kawasaki KLX140 because it was the only dirt bike this year that qualifies for a "green sticker" which means you can ride it all year. All the other bikes that were green sticker last year are now "red sticker" which means you can only ride them October through May.
I sure hope they come up with an electric dirt bike that goes hundreds of miles between charges and tops p in 5 minutes soon...
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PeteJE




PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Wed May 30, 2018 12:05 am

GusinCA wrote:
What does the WR make?
How about the KTM450EXC?
I'll tell you what, regulations are getting tighter and tighter here in California. For example, I just bought my daughter a new Kawasaki KLX140 because it was the only dirt bike this year that qualifies for a "green sticker" which means you can ride it all year. All the other bikes that were green sticker last year are now "red sticker" which means you can only ride them October through May.
I sure hope they come up with an electric dirt bike that goes hundreds of miles between charges and tops p in 5 minutes soon...

https://lunacycle.com/sur-ron-mx-electric/
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rsteiger

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PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Wed May 30, 2018 1:18 am

GusinCA wrote:
What does the WR make?
How about the KTM450EXC?
I'll tell you what, regulations are getting tighter and tighter here in California. For example, I just bought my daughter a new Kawasaki KLX140 because it was the only dirt bike this year that qualifies for a "green sticker" which means you can ride it all year. All the other bikes that were green sticker last year are now "red sticker" which means you can only ride them October through May.
I sure hope they come up with an electric dirt bike that goes hundreds of miles between charges and tops p in 5 minutes soon...

Depending on who you consult the stock WRR makes about 24 to 26 HP with about 16 - 18 ft-lbs of torque in stock form.

When my 2003 KTM 450 EXC was new, KTM claimed it was making 56 hp. I have no idea what it is making now but I will say it has surprised me on how long it has been running - especially the lack of TLC from the prior owners.
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TwelveGaugeSage




PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Wed May 30, 2018 9:43 am

KTM and Beta 450 class dual-sports make around 60hp. The Honda X makes around 45, so I don't see it making any more than that in Dual-sport trim. I know there are sources saying 25 hp, but if that's the case, even Honda fanboys probably won't buy them. My best guess would be 40-45.
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GusinCA

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PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Wed May 30, 2018 10:37 am

PeteJE
I talked to the people from Luna, and they said their electric dirt bike is not at all legal in California. Go figure...
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GusinCA

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PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Wed May 30, 2018 10:38 am

So the new Honda produces probably twice the power of the WR and twice the reliability of the KTM.
Now if they could keep the oil changes to "normal" levels they'll have a great bike!
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rsteiger

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PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Wed May 30, 2018 11:09 am

TwelveGaugeSage wrote:
KTM and Beta 450 class dual-sports make around 60hp.  The Honda X makes around 45, so I don't see it making any more than that in Dual-sport trim.  I know there are sources saying 25 hp, but if that's the case, even Honda fanboys probably won't buy them.  My best guess would be 40-45.

Apparently several sources on the web have confirmed the 25hp number has come from Honda but I have yet to find confirmation on a Honda site that the 25hp is real... I hope it is not because while I am not a Honda fan boy I really would like to see one of the Japanese Manufacturers come out with a viable 450 DS bike that offers decent power and is at or about 300 lbs ready to ride.

Besides the price, the other thing that concerns me is the narrow range 6 speed transmission.  I had a TE250 with a narrow range transmission and while it may work well in tight woods riding it was terrible as a DS ride.  I ended up riding my WR250R on even the tight woods rides just so I would not be left behind on the occasional pavement runs which were incredibly infuriating on that bike.  I ended up selling the TE250 and the transmission range was one of the prime reasons for selling it - maybe I was spoiled by an old Super Sherpa 250 and my WRR in that regard.

For me there is nothing that the Honda offers (assuming the 25 hp claim is not real) that would push me to sell my WRR. I would just keep my old trusty KTM 450 EXC RFS motored DS warrior since it is paid for and set up well. Then again I don't live in Kalifornia so I don't have to deal with all that regulation stuff which gives a lot of us more options when it comes to DS rides.
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GusinCA

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PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Wed May 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Yep, that's the hard part about California. I love it here, I have the money to live by the beach, I ride the mountains and deserts, and the weather is perfect, the recreation is endless.
But the regulations are life choking sometimes.
I get it, there are a lot of people, and it would suck if everyone could just ride open piped bikes and smokey two strokes everywhere, but one of the regs that kills me is how you can't make a side by side street legal here. Makes very little sense that a Polaris or Canam 3 wheeler is legal, but something much safer like a Rzr isn't.

but back to the topic, yes, 25 hp is silly. 600 mile oil changes are silly. I guess we need to wait and see what people get in the real world.
I will say this in all caps: IT'S AWESOME TO SEE THAT DUAL SPORT BIKES ARE STILL BEING DEVELOPED AND TAKEN SERIOUSLY!
Right? For a while there it looked like not enough demand and ever tighter restrictions meant they would be dropped from production at some point.
Now a WR400R would be very nice, thank you... :)
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rsteiger

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PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Wed May 30, 2018 2:26 pm

Ok it sounds like there may be a typo on the HP out there in Honda Land.

Scroll down to the comments section of the attached link and in the comments there is a statement:

"Update (5:00 PM 5/24/18): I have just heard back from American Honda on my questions about maintenance intervals and horsepower. Unfortunately, I didn’t get quite the answers I was hoping for.

I’ll start with the good news. My Honda contact said they don’t have official horsepower figures yet, and often don’t publish this information anyway, but horsepower for the US version of the CRF450L will be “in the forties.” Not exactly hair-on-fire beastly, but I can live with it given the new 450L’s very reasonable weight. And besides, that probably means it’s detuned a bit in the name of reliability and longer maintenance intervals, right?

Nope, at least not the longer maintenance intervals part. According to Honda, oil / filter change and air filter service interval is just 600 miles, and valve inspection is 1,800 miles. Ouch.

I didn’t expect the 8,000 mile oil / end of time (actually 16,000 miles) valve inspection intervals of the 250L, but 600 mile oil changes are too frequent, at least for a heavily-used dual-sport that’ll get thrashed on the mean streets of Oakland and San Francisco as much, if not more, than it gets taken to the trails. Those are “serious dirtbike” intervals, and avoiding that nonsense is why we ride CRF250Ls.

I still believe this bike will be seriously good, and I can hope that it’ll be like the pre-VTEC VFRs were, where most people didn’t even bother to inspect the valves more frequently than every 32k and nothing went wrong, but that seems unlikely, which means my CRF250L won’t be looking for a new home come September after all.

Bummer."


https://www.citybike.com/news-clues-rumors/press-releases/finally-new-2019-honda-crf450l-coming-this-september/
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GusinCA

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PostSubject: Re: Might Have to Sell WR250R for the New Honda CR450L!   Wed May 30, 2018 3:54 pm

Since I ride 99% off road, maybe those intervals could work for me, but I would really love WR250R intervals.
I'm surprised as a Honda they didn't try harder to compete with the WR, but maybe the KTM is their intended target.
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