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 Drain bolt torque

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mfrankpdx

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PostSubject: Drain bolt torque   Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:32 pm

The owners manual says 14 ft/lbs (20 Nm) of torque for the engine oil drain bolt. When I tighten it to that spec, I get oil leaking from the drain bolt. Anyone else have that problem?

I tightened it up some, to 20 ft/lbs, hopefully that solves the problem, but I'm a little confused to why the owners manual would be off. Perhaps I have a defect or something? I don't think my torque wrench is off, its only a year old.
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mwakey

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PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 pm

Did you install a new crush washer under the drain plug? I know the manual just says to check it, but the washer is really only designed to be torqued once and not reused. I replace mine everytime I change the oil. Same rule holds true for any crush washer on anything. One time use only.

My only other thought is there is a burr or something on the engine case or under the head of the drain plug that is making the washer leak.
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SheWolf
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PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:58 pm

Ok, there is another change then. Mine doesn't have a crush washer; it's a flat washer like the one on my side cover. deal

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mtb

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PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:05 am

SheWolf wrote:
Ok, there is another change then. Mine doesn't have a crush washer; it's a flat washer like the one on my side cover. deal

Is the torque spec the same?
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SheWolf
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PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:07 am

I tighten the thing until it's snug. It hasn't leaked.

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proview

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PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:08 am

No crush gasket here either. It's a copper washer and I just keep reusing it on my "08". I don't tighten it with a torque wrench. Being a mechanic I guess you just get use to feeling how tight it should be. No leaks yet.
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mfrankpdx

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PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:35 am

I haven't replaced the washer. It's 3 oil changes old, so I'll probably pick up a new one next time.
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mwakey

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PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:06 pm

proview wrote:
No crush gasket here either. It's a copper washer and I just keep reusing it on my "08". I don't tighten it with a torque wrench. Being a mechanic I guess you just get use to feeling how tight it should be. No leaks yet.

Well, being a mechanic, you should know that a copper washer IS a crush washer. And being a mechanic you should know the importance of the correct torque, as opposed to "it feels good because I've done a bunch of these before" kinda thing.

Crush washers are made of soft metal like copper or aluminum. They get crushed and form a seal between the bolt and the case when torqued properly, and if reused, they are already flattened and have the shape of the last torque. There is always the possibility they will not be able to seal properly if removed and reused. Sure people have reused them several times with no leaks, but in reality they were designed for one time use. But hey, it's your bike and your engine.
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proview

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PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:36 am

mwakey wrote:

Well, being a mechanic, you should know that a copper washer IS a crush washer. And being a mechanic you should know the importance of the correct torque, as opposed to "it feels good because I've done a bunch of these before" kinda thing.

Crush washers are made of soft metal like copper or aluminum. They get crushed and form a seal between the bolt and the case when torqued properly, and if reused, they are already flattened and have the shape of the last torque. There is always the possibility they will not be able to seal properly if removed and reused. Sure people have reused them several times with no leaks, but in reality they were designed for one time use. But hey, it's your bike and your engine.
Yes, it is a crush washer but, not the kind I am thinking about with a soft core. I have been using the one on my truck for 140K and it still doesn't leak. I've never torqued or stripped that either. I'm not trying to give bad advice or argue with you. Just saying what I do and it works for me.
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mwakey

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PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:57 pm

proview wrote:
mwakey wrote:

Well, being a mechanic, you should know that a copper washer IS a crush washer. And being a mechanic you should know the importance of the correct torque, as opposed to "it feels good because I've done a bunch of these before" kinda thing.

Crush washers are made of soft metal like copper or aluminum. They get crushed and form a seal between the bolt and the case when torqued properly, and if reused, they are already flattened and have the shape of the last torque. There is always the possibility they will not be able to seal properly if removed and reused. Sure people have reused them several times with no leaks, but in reality they were designed for one time use. But hey, it's your bike and your engine.
Yes, it is a crush washer but, not the kind I am thinking about with a soft core. I have been using the one on my truck for 140K and it still doesn't leak. I've never torqued or stripped that either. I'm not trying to give bad advice or argue with you. Just saying what I do and it works for me.

Sorry if I was being a little sarcastic. I had just come from a lengthy argument over at SMJ and I was all pumped up. GAHHHH

Crush washers come in all flavors. Like the ones on spark plugs and the ones you speak of with the soft core. I was just trying to let people know what this one is and let them be the judge of whether to change it or not. To me it's cheap insurance, but I do admit to reusing them on other vehicles I have owned when I didn't have a new one available. I would at least replace them once in a while if you are not going to do it at each oil change.

Peace freaky
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SheWolf
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PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:57 pm

That's ok Mark. We still love you. Very happy lurk

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mwakey

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PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:33 pm

SheWolf wrote:
That's ok Mark. We still love you. Very happy lurk

Ya know, I don't know why I hang out at SMJ anyhow. Those guys seem to be a little touchy sometimes. I guess I go over there when it's slow here and at TT. Nothing better to do on a Sunday night! I love you guys too. This place is the BEST! Whoever had the idea to start this forum is okie dokie in my book.
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SheWolf
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PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:44 pm

I belong to it too, and a few others. Sometimes one has to bounce around a few times, but you don't miss anything that way. Some places I find hard to stay in for very long because it's full of idiots, you know? We have a pretty good group here, and we're all here for the same thing. Now hand me that ratchet...you have a loose nut. Very happy

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mwakey

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PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:16 pm

SheWolf wrote:
Now hand me that ratchet...

You haven't been paying attention. I like to be torqued. wink
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SheWolf
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PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:34 pm

*wields a 600 ft-lb torque wench*

Big enuf? I even have some anti-squeaking stuff.

*holds up Yamalube*

Won't be leaking after I get thru. bannana

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A wolf's voice echoed down the mountain 'Share the bounty of the hunt with your brothers and sisters, and forever be strong and free.'
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proview

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PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:03 am

mwakey wrote:
proview wrote:
mwakey wrote:

Well, being a mechanic, you should know that a copper washer IS a crush washer. And being a mechanic you should know the importance of the correct torque, as opposed to "it feels good because I've done a bunch of these before" kinda thing.

Crush washers are made of soft metal like copper or aluminum. They get crushed and form a seal between the bolt and the case when torqued properly, and if reused, they are already flattened and have the shape of the last torque. There is always the possibility they will not be able to seal properly if removed and reused. Sure people have reused them several times with no leaks, but in reality they were designed for one time use. But hey, it's your bike and your engine.
Yes, it is a crush washer but, not the kind I am thinking about with a soft core. I have been using the one on my truck for 140K and it still doesn't leak. I've never torqued or stripped that either. I'm not trying to give bad advice or argue with you. Just saying what I do and it works for me.

Sorry if I was being a little sarcastic. I had just come from a lengthy argument over at SMJ and I was all pumped up. GAHHHH

Crush washers come in all flavors. Like the ones on spark plugs and the ones you speak of with the soft core. I was just trying to let people know what this one is and let them be the judge of whether to change it or not. To me it's cheap insurance, but I do admit to reusing them on other vehicles I have owned when I didn't have a new one available. I would at least replace them once in a while if you are not going to do it at each oil change.

Peace freaky

That's alright thumb I probably should be at least using a torque wrench since it is an aluminum block dddog . It's right over there in my box after all.
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joups




PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:02 pm

Copper washers just heat it until cherry red, drop it in water and use it as many times as you like
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Machtig




PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:23 am

For what its worth, I reuse all my copper washers on all my vehicles when reinstalling the drain bolt. Never ever had a problem. I also tighten them German (ie guten tight), but I have a calibrated arm Suspect
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BluePill

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PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:27 am

Probably worth changing a crush-washer on a bike even if you don't do it on your cars. The washer does have some effect on retaining the drain bolt, and having a drain bolt come out on a bike (spilling oil right under your rear tire) is a bit more hairy than a car. baldy
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bash3r

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PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:50 pm

Change the oil, first time! Set my torque wrench to 14ft/lbs then started to tighten, and slip! socket rounded the plug, my socket is a fairly new too!

Are these things made out of clay or what?! Hope I don't have problems getting it off..

Anyone know if there's a BETTER drain plug that won't round out or need to be replaced after every oil change??
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mwakey

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PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:30 pm

Were you using a 6 point 12mm socket? I've never had a problem with the stock drain plug. I don't get why so many others have had trouble with something so simple. (no offense).
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bash3r

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PostSubject: Re: Drain bolt torque   Sun Sep 20, 2009 9:57 pm

No offense taken bro.. i'm so frustrated! yeah 6 point socket.. just ticks me off something like this happens, even when i'm taking precautions using the correct torque settings and slip!!

I need a better drain plug, am I correct that the WR250F drain plug also fits the R²?
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