GPS

Saw this today. Execellent price. Garmin released a new model-62, but this 60CSx has worked very well for many of us.

http://www.gpscity.com/cp?&s=00000&cr=110410gu

gediehl4 wrote:

Saw this today. Execellent price. Garmin released a new model-62, but this 60CSx has worked very well for many of us.

http://www.gpscity.com/cp?&s=00000&cr=110410gu

I have had mine for about five years and it works well and has survived several hard crashes

Old sucks, new is better. Someone needs to run out and buy the new model then sell me their used one cheap.

I am getting more and more frustrated operating my 76Csx with gloves, especially winter gloves on. I would get a Zumo for this reason if I wasn't saving for a Husaberg.

Chief_Lee_Visceral wrote:

I am getting more and more frustrated operating my 76Csx with gloves, especially winter gloves on. I would get a Zumo for this reason if I wasn't saving for a Husaberg.

That's why I prefer buttons over touch screen. My Garmin 60Csx is working well for me. I need to better learn how to operate it. Routing in Google Earth is awesome! You just need to convert the files for Garmin use.

Boondocker wrote:

Chief_Lee_Visceral wrote:

I am getting more and more frustrated operating my 76Csx with gloves, especially winter gloves on. I would get a Zumo for this reason if I wasn't saving for a Husaberg.

That's why I prefer buttons over touch screen. My Garmin 60Csx is working well for me. I need to better learn how to operate it. Routing in Google Earth is awesome! You just need to convert the files for Garmin use.

How do you do that?
I just use mine to verify my location per my map. Yeah I am old school but the GPS does help.

I've also been very happy with the 60CSx.

I love using paths in Google Earth for drawing out routes! I just save the path out as a .kml file, then use GPSBabel to convert the .kml to a .gpx, then import the .gpx to topo software (like NatGeo or MapSource) and then tweak and import to my Garmin.

granite4brains wrote:

I've also been very happy with the 60CSx.

I love using paths in Google Earth for drawing out routes! I just save the path out as a .kml file, then use GPSBabel to convert the .kml to a .gpx, then import the .gpx to topo software (like NatGeo or MapSource) and then tweak and import to my Garmin.

Nothing like 'one-click' compatibility

edteamslr wrote:

granite4brains wrote:

I've also been very happy with the 60CSx.

I love using paths in Google Earth for drawing out routes! I just save the path out as a .kml file, then use GPSBabel to convert the .kml to a .gpx, then import the .gpx to topo software (like NatGeo or MapSource) and then tweak and import to my Garmin.

Nothing like 'one-click' compatibility

Man, it's amazing what a spoiled bunch we have become.

I first used a portable GPS in 1993 in Yugoslavia. It was a six pound monster, gave nothing but coordinates, and the antenna was so weak that we usually had to send the skinniest, smallest private up a tree to wave it around in the air while swaying around in the treetop to hope to get a fix. We put up with it because knowing precisely where you are is a good thing when patrolling through minefields...

Now you can buy a much more accurate and feature laden GPS for about $100 that is small enough to slip into your shirt pocket.

Then, about a decade later, I first saw Keyhole and it's imagery that they were doing for the Department of Defense. Keyhole was pretty cool. Then a company called Google bought up Keyhole and renamed it into this little thing called Google Earth.

The result is we have real time aerial mapping, route planning, etc that guys in high speed military units could only dream about a mere 20 years ago. There has been an enormous convergence of very disparate technologies to make this all possible - and programmers that can write programs that do on the fly datum conversions between platforms are one short step from magical.

Despite all of this, it seems some of us are so spoiled that we roll our eyes at the idea that we don't have seamless, automatic conversion and communication between two different technologies.

The cure for that would probably to be trying to go it alone for a year, without GPS, Mapsource, Google Earth, etc., and just do it the good old way with a paper mapsheet and a compass. Might help to bring a little more appreciation of what we have for tools for our travels.

It has nothing to do with being spoiled. I *love* technology and appreciate it in so far as I remember what it was like without mobile phones or GPS (if that's what you mean) but reminising about maps and compasses doesn't improve anything and you only have to look at the humble VCR to realise how the 'good enough' mentality left every home in the developed world with a device that most people could barely use a fraction of the functionality!

Yes, look how far we've come but we need to remain demanding of our techology - it must be efficient, relevant, accessible and above all, self-evident. Just look at a 2year old playing with an ipad (crazy huh?) - they don't give a rat's arse what we used to have to do but you can count on the fact that in a couple of years they will showing us the future.

How about 'Save Track' -> 'Send to my GPS device'... that will do for starters. Not too much to ask for now is it?

edteamslr wrote:

How about 'Save Track' -> 'Send to my GPS device'... that will do for starters. Not too much to ask for now is it?

Evidently it is.

edteamslr wrote:

How about 'Save Track' -> 'Send to my GPS device'... that will do for starters. Not too much to ask for now is it?

Why don't you try writing the code for it? Should be easy, right?

Especially if none of the code involved is proprietary and doesn't require reverse engineering.

Which GPS platform do you want to write your code for?

Do you want to do it in Python? .Net? VBA?

How are you going to deal with geod and datum transformations? How many of the hundreds of datums out there do you intend to support with your code?

How do you plan to address issues of generalization for your GPS?

What's your strategy going to be for dealing with spatial data issues like dangling nodes?

Oh... and if people aren't willing to shell out their money for your masterpiece because public domain utilities do the same thing, just consider the hundreds or thousands of hours you put into programming efforts to be worth it for the character building qualities of it all.

Working with VBA in ArcObjects is enough for me, thanks. I'll go riding; you can spend a few years of your life trying to write that code.

Jäger wrote:

edteamslr wrote:

How about 'Save Track' -> 'Send to my GPS device'... that will do for starters. Not too much to ask for now is it?

Why don't you try writing the code for it? Should be easy, right?

Especially if none of the code involved is proprietary and doesn't require reverse engineering.

Which GPS platform do you want to write your code for?

Do you want to do it in Python? .Net? VBA?

How are you going to deal with geod and datum transformations? How many of the hundreds of datums out there do you intend to support with your code?

How do you plan to address issues of generalization for your GPS?

What's your strategy going to be for dealing with spatial data issues like dangling nodes?

Oh... and if people aren't willing to shell out their money for your masterpiece because public domain utilities do the same thing, just consider the hundreds or thousands of hours you put into programming efforts to be worth it for the character building qualities of it all.

Working with VBA in ArcObjects is enough for me, thanks. I'll go riding; you can spend a few years of your life trying to write that code.

You started to imply that this problem is a technical one but I'm glad you didn't push your assertion into that dead end. I clearly hear that you don't want to do the development but I know of people who would be tempted. This is purely a commercial issue - whether Google is interested in developing straight through converters (with clearly made assumptions about how to handle any issues you've outlined above) for Garmin or any of the other popular devices. Somehow I can't see that with all their efforts to launch national mobile networks, voice services, streetmapping and mobile(cell)phones that developing something to helps your competitors to sell GPS units is high on their list of priorities. In which case some nice person with time on their hands (again, not you or I apparently) will probably want to create one for us. If many of the converters already exist and some are even open sourced then eventually these will become consolidated as the emergent gps formats emerge or fall out of favour and integrating these things into new tools is just the natural evolution.

Since when was the argument "it's too hard" a valid one for not doing something? Come one - we ride 300lbs wr250r's up gnarly singletrack..

edteamslr wrote:

You started to imply that this problem is a technical one but I'm glad you didn't push your assertion into that dead end. I clearly hear that you don't want to do the development but I know of people who would be tempted.

It is a technical issue.

And until you figure out how you will pay for development and programming by selling enough copies of your program to people who will pay so they can simply click "Save track to my GPS" (or whatever) instead of use an intermediary third step using free software, it isn't going to happen.

And until you figure out how to create sufficient desire in the market from GPS users willing to spend their money on a dedicated program instead of taking a few moments to use freeware, it is going to remain a dead end.

Now if you know people who are tempted, then obviously the solution to your dilemma is well within your grasp. From my perspective, I doubt the people you know not only have the programming skills, but also the knowledge and understanding of spatial data that will also be required. How many of them know what a dangling node is? Do they know what Normal Form spatial attribute tables have to be at?

You are right that it is a commercial issue. This is not some code that simply gets knocked off in a few afternoons after work. And there are sufficient freeware utilities out there that do the transformation in a series of steps that take mere seconds, that the solution you desire lacks any kind of significant need to drive a market. Did it ever cross your mind to wonder why Google Earth supports so very little of all the datums and projections that are in use around the world?

If that commercial viability were out there, there would be lots of people racing to provide the solution. Including Google.

Given the time it takes to convert between .kml, .gpx, and .shp formats - perhaps a dozen seconds and one additional open program is what it usually takes me - how much money do you think I'm going to be willing to spend to save myself a dozen seconds a handful of times a year?

OK

Talking of more practical GPS stuff, on my last trip through Africa I took a Garmin eTrex Vista with the wanderlust maps installed. You can pretty much do that trip with a michelin map but the GPS was handy for not getting lost in cities and recording places of interest. The lack of decent routing and turn-by-turn routing was a pain in Europe and the screen is just too small even thought the resolution is the same as the larger 60Csx. My next trip in the spring is out through Central Asia and Russia and I'm thinking of getting a GPS with decent Europe maps but can't decide which one - a mobile phone with google maps would work fine but my roaming data bill would be stupid. I don't want to take a laptop with me so messing around converting formats is not helpful and above all the device needs to be rugged enough to go on a motorbike (at least in a tankbag pocket and charge as we go). Paper map? Zumo 220/660? Nuvi?

edteamslr wrote:

OK

Talking of more practical GPS stuff, on my last trip through Africa I took a Garmin eTrex Vista with the wanderlust maps installed. You can pretty much do that trip with a michelin map but the GPS was handy for not getting lost in cities and recording places of interest. The lack of decent routing and turn-by-turn routing was a pain in Europe and the screen is just too small even thought the resolution is the same as the larger 60Csx. My next trip in the spring is out through Central Asia and Russia and I'm thinking of getting a GPS with decent Europe maps but can't decide which one - a mobile phone with google maps would work fine but my roaming data bill would be stupid. I don't want to take a laptop with me so messing around converting formats is not helpful and above all the device needs to be rugged enough to go on a motorbike (at least in a tankbag pocket and charge as we go). Paper map? Zumo 220/660? Nuvi?

Everything you need to know about crossing Russia and Mongolia and a lot you might not want to know. Walter addresses GPS, laptops and servicing bikes in great detail. He even links to a complete build of his bike.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=602168

Thanks. Yes, I know Walter - he popped in for a coffee the other day. He ran a Garmin Zumo 550 on both his last trips and rates them very highly. He also has paper maps of the regions he's exploring because the GPS mapping is not always available and he likes to view the route and plan what to see as he goes. The new 660 is out but I can't help feeling that it's a lot of money to spend.

I think it comes down to the fact that the Etrex is poor for road riding, I'll have maps of the region for planning but I either 'consolidate' the Etrex into a newer smarter device or keep it and buy a cheaper road-type device to take too.

I've never ridden through Russia, but there's certainly lots of poorly mapped areas around here - i.e. topo maps last updated in 1977.

I have a bit of a different preference to GPS, and that is that for the WR I prefer the outdoor/mobile devices i.e. the Garmin Rino 530 HCx. You can load metro oriented map programs just as easily as you can load topo-oriented map programs.

There are a few reasons I prefer the handheld devices.

The fact I can take it off the bike, put it in my pocket, and then use it anywhere I intend to wander on foot is big for me - I do a lot of walking as well. That is an additional benefit if you have lots of camera memory and want to geocode your photos the really simple way - take your picture then take a picture of the GPS.

If I were doing an epic trip, I would probably have the trip broken down into segments of topo mapping, and segments of city mapping, stored on memory cards. Swap back and forth as required In North America, I have found Topo Canada and Topo USA do do a sufficiently good job for navigation, although they don't allow navigating to an address versus a point of interest or waypoint. In North America, for me it works sufficiently well when travelling that I have never bothered to purchase Metro mapping products.

The fact the Rino has built in GMRS radios, weather radio, and peer to peer tracking is also a nice touch, although that would be irrelevant if you were travelling alone in Europe.

The biggest downside is the small screen size, but that also relates to having little real estate taken up on the handlebars.

If I didn't travel so much afoot where I am always slipping my GPS into a shirt pocket, perhaps I'd like the bigger vehicle oriented GPS units a lot more.

Come to think of it, if I were doing epic trips, I'd probably spend the extra money (considerably more money) and buy a Trimble field computer/GPS with bluetooth and all the other bells and whistles for my trip. Just go with shapefiles and orthophotoes all the way, not even have to worry about a notebook or other additional devices.