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 Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out?

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0007onWR
DesertRatliff
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DesertRatliff

DesertRatliff



Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? Empty
PostSubject: Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out?   Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? EmptyMon Jul 25, 2011 12:35 pm

Hi,

I've been chasing an electrical gremlin that has had me late to work twice now. Installed 12 O'clock Labs brake light/tail tidy processor board. Even though I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron, to my chagrin, it was not plug and play. Soldered up the connections nicely and went riding.

Well...long story short...been popping my 10 amp fuse. As you might know, that little guy handles a lot of stuff including starting. Figuring it was the work that I had done, I went back and re-soldered, re-heat shrunk and re-electric taped everything on my work, but today it popped again 4 times. After diagnosing in the post office parking lot (sitting there popping fuses), it looks like the short is coming from my rear brake switch. I disconnected the switch, replaced the fuse and rode 50 miles stopping and starting the bike several times without a problem. Seems my rear brake switch is shorting out. Anybody else had this problem?

Thanks,
Nic
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0007onWR

0007onWR



Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out?   Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? EmptyMon Jul 25, 2011 4:19 pm

Hmmmm, sounds weird
Theoretically all your switch does is switch the ground side, so there is 12v to the light all the time and then when you press the brake it connects the ground and on comes your brake light
So if it shorts all it should do is turn on the brake light, btw that is an easy test, just ground the wire to test the circuit

For it to short and conduct more than 10 amps of current to pop the fuse is unusual as it should pop when you apply the brake as well

Strange things happen with electricity but I don't get that one, I would look real close at the wiring
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DesertRatliff

DesertRatliff



Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out?   Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? EmptyMon Jul 25, 2011 5:21 pm

"Theoretically all your switch does is switch the ground side, so there is 12v to the light all the time and then when you press the brake it connects the ground and on comes your brake light"

Good point. The brake light should just turn on if it shorts. I just pulled the switch to inspect the wiring, and there was a bunch of water collected in the connectors and insulation but still...it should just turn on.

Unfortunately, it seems everytime I press the rear brake (not the front), the fuse pops. At one point, I ran out of 10 amp fuses and used 20, so something is shorting out somewhere. And now with it dissconnected, it works fine.

I know the likely sounding culprit is my soldering, but I always make sure to do an A+ job on motorcycles because of vibrations, etc and diagnosing this stuff sucks (the big reason I was disappointed in the 12 O'Clock Labs board to begin with).

What else could this be before I tear apart my work again?
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YZEtc

YZEtc



Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out?   Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? EmptyMon Jul 25, 2011 8:47 pm

Did you have this problem before you changed the taillight?
I'd make 101% certain the wiring is correct.
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0007onWR

0007onWR



Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out?   Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? EmptyMon Jul 25, 2011 9:17 pm

Does the brake light work? For that matter does the tail light work properly?
10 amps is a ton of current but there is more on that circuit than just the tail light
I wonder if You have too much draw somewhere else and the brake light is just enough to put it over the edge
For instance, a Jenna jamieson electric blow up doll draws 8 amps, do you have one of those on the bike anywhere?

Oh and 20 amp fuses are scary, it just moves the failure point to the next weakest point which will be a ground wire in the harness, you will recreate the light bulb and maybe burn the bike to the ground, your headlight is only about 5amps
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DesertRatliff

DesertRatliff



Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out?   Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? EmptyMon Jul 25, 2011 9:34 pm

LOL!! My Jenna runs off 240V in my workshop!! wink Ha!

No Jenna, nothing additional drawing on that circuit. The only alteration to the bikes' electrics is the 12 O'clock Labs brake light board, EXUP eliminator, signal flasher, and speedo healer plus the FMF Programmer.

Brake light/ tail light works normally (when it's not popping fuses). Went through the rear brake light switch (nothing funny other than water/dried it thoroughly), so I hooked it back up and cycled the switch several times. Nothing strange to report. Weird. Tugged on all the brake light wires, bent them with the brake on, and nothing happend. Buttoned it up and cycled the brake again. Nothing.

I just don't want to get left at the post office again and buying 10 amp fuses by the gross.
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mash100

mash100



Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out?   Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? EmptyWed Jul 27, 2011 11:13 am

Sounds to me like the board itself. Either design fault, toasted components, or short somewhere on the board itself. Is this an intermittent issue, or does the 10A fuse cook as soon as brake pedal depressed? If its the latter, are you sure the wiring is not configured for a positive input on the brake switch, rather than the apparent switch-to-ground configuration of the R2 someone mentioned, like wiring for a horn?? Sounds weird dunno
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DesertRatliff

DesertRatliff



Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out?   Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? EmptyWed Jul 27, 2011 2:05 pm

The board is the next thing I'll look at. I sealed it with silicone, so I was a little hesitant to open it up. Something may have come loose causing this intermittent short. The wiring orientation, as per the instructions, has been checked multiple times. It is, without a doubt, correct. I guess the variables are:

-the board itself
-my soldering
-a loose, chaffed or shorted connection somewhere along the (+) line between the fuse and the light

Anything else?

I can rule out the rear brake switch thanks to 0007onWR's explanation of it just being a grounding switch (Thanks for that!)

I did ride another 50 miles using the brakes and switching off the motor today several times without popping a fuse. Hmmm?
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Chief_Lee_Visceral





Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out?   Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? EmptyMon Jul 16, 2012 12:19 pm

I am having the exact same problem. Tail light works and brake light works too. The brake light will work indefinetly when activated from the front. However when it is activated by the rear switch there is a power surge (the headlight gets brighter) and then the fuse eventually blows on the 2nd or 3rd power surge. At work and I was about to order a $25 switch but going to hold off. Could it be that the main ground is not good or something and the ground for the brake is taking the full load? Not an electrical guy at all but why does the headlight get brighter before it blows?
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Heoz





Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out?   Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? EmptyMon Jul 16, 2012 12:57 pm

I'm not sure this will help but here goes:

The headlight and the brake lights are on different circuits. Although, the headlight (15A circuit) and the horn (10A circuit that includes brake lights) appear to share a ground and the point where that ground meets for those two circuits appears to be in the left handlebar switch.

That begs the question: Does the headlight get brighter/dimmer when the horn is used? Can't really think of a good reason to have them share ground othewise.

I'd start by having a good look at the wiring in and around the left handlebar switch. Be careful as there are some failry small parts in there.
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Chief_Lee_Visceral





Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out?   Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? EmptyMon Jul 16, 2012 1:14 pm

Henz you are onto something I believe. The left switch got whacked in the woods cuz I know there is a new character mark there! Who knows how long it would have taken for me to figure that out on my own! I will report back when I get home.

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Heoz





Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out?   Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? EmptyMon Jul 16, 2012 1:38 pm

Chief_Lee_Visceral wrote:
... new character mark there! ...

That phrase makes me smile every time I see it Very happy

Might be able to save yourself some fuses by pulling the 15A fuse while you're searching for the gremlin. Then again, it might prevent the issue from happening and keep you from finding it. :hmmm:
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Chief_Lee_Visceral





Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out?   Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? EmptyMon Aug 27, 2012 2:16 am

Sorry for the delay in responding but I have other bikes and so I just got this fixed. After running with the suggestion that a short in the switch would not be cause for the fuse blowing, I traced all the wires and found no issues. So I bought a new switch and the problem is solved.

My theory is the failure was such that resistance increased.
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Heoz





Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out?   Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? EmptyMon Aug 27, 2012 8:31 am

Nice troubleshooting. I was going to run out and buy a lottery ticket if the problem was in the handlebar switch.

I'm thinking you should throw that theory out the window. Reason being is that an open switch is already at max resistance - open. And that switch is open until the brake is applied.

This should help make sense of it: according to the schematic the brake light switches apply POWER. They do not apply ground. Brake switches are attached to the fuse and then to the light. The other side of the light circuit is grounded. I went along with the info in this thread and didn't catch it when I was looking at the schematic the first time.

So, the side of the switch that is attached to the brake light managing to touch ground would definately pop the fuse when the brake was applied.
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DesertRatliff

DesertRatliff



Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out?   Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? EmptyMon Aug 27, 2012 9:52 am

The above statement makes sense to me and has merit to my fix. Here's why:

Even though I thought the switch was a grounding switch at the time, I went ahead a dismantled it from the bike and wrapped the two individual wires in electrical tape, then wrapped them together in e-tape and covered them in conduit. It seemed like overkill at the time, but it's been so long that it's shorted now, I can't remember if that was the fix or if it was the other wires I did the same treatment to.

Either way, it hasn't popped a fuse in over a year.
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Chief_Lee_Visceral





Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out?   Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? EmptyMon Aug 27, 2012 2:23 pm

Its all good then. Thanks guys and hope this helps someone else too. Have to imagine more are going to fail.
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Anybody else's rear brake switch shorting out? Empty
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