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 Heidenau K60 Scout

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SheWolf
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PostSubject: Heidenau K60 Scout   Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:49 am

Heidenau Tires

Not sure if anyone has tired these...but this girl is going to take a HUGE jump into the unknown. Yep, I'll have these puppies on my bike by the end of the week. I've talked to a few ppl who have much bigger bore scoots who run these and so far I like what I've heard/seen. Sounds like these dawgs will do the kind of stuff my 606's will do, which is fine by me, and the added bonus of longer wear. My 606's gave me an 8k return, these ones are supposed to give me 10 -12k.



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mucker

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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:22 pm

Looks about as aggressive as the TW's.
Your tires usually look pretty mean compared to that...good luck.
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PYG RYDR

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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:23 pm

Which size?
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SheWolf
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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:48 pm

90/90/21 front and 120/80/18 on the back. I figured I'd try these ones out (the SC Pro's...yeah we won't go there... ); the tread is much deeper than the stock TW's, and after talking to a few guys who run them on other bikes they really like them. I've still got a new 606 rear in the carport and a new C17 front as well, so if I have to do a swap out I still have something. I'm just finding lately my mileage is more tarmac than gnarly single track...mostly because I have nobody to ride with and if I do run into trouble on the trails I ride, nobody would be able to get to me. When i was younger I didn't give a shit about riding by myself, but back then I didn't have a family to worry about.

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sturgeon

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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:40 pm

SheWolf wrote:
90/90/21 front and 120/80/18 on the back.

I'd be interested to see how they work on the WRR. I've got a set on my F800GS and they're OK on the road. Jury's still out on the nasty(er) stuff

Quote :
When i was younger I didn't give a shit about riding by myself, but back then I didn't have a family to worry about.

SPOT tracker. I'm 61 and I do all kinds of remote stuff on my own. With the SPOT I don't give it a second thought, and my family has some peace of mind. It's kinda like one of those ankle bracelets the parolees get to wear poser2
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Jäger
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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:47 pm

SheWolf wrote:
Not sure if anyone has tired these...but this girl is going to take a HUGE jump into the unknown.



90/90/21 front and 120/80/18 on the back.
Well, talk about coincidences. I came here to post a similar decision; I'd been looking back and forth between the Mefo Explorer's and the Heidenau's. Figured that for a whole lot less money and a similar looking tire with a good reputation, I'd go Heidenau.

I'm about to complete a purchase on ALMOST the same thing, except I've been waiting for a few responses from sellers to make sure I'm crystal clear that I'm getting exactly what I want in the way of Heidenau's. The "Scout" and size thing is the outstanding questions.

First, where are you buying them, and how much?

Distributors are hard to find (but growing); the best pricing I could find was www.tires-easy.com
Heidenau K 60 120/90-18 TT 71T M/C $111.40
Heidenau K60 Scout 90/90-21 TL 54T M/C $80.80

And $40 shipping...

Heindl Engineering had about the same, for about $10 more after shipping was added.

I'm wondering where you got the K60 Scout in 120/80-18? The online dealers didn't have the Scout in that size, and Heidenau's website seems to confirm that:
Their K60 Scout series - closest is a 140/80 - 18 M/C 70S TT M+S
http://www.reifenwerk-heidenau.de/modules/reifenliste/view.php?point=2&rtyp=10&profil=162&pic=99&lang=en

The online dealers and the manufacturer website seem to indicate you have to go to the "ordinary" K60 to get 120/80 - 18:
http://www.reifenwerk-heidenau.de/modules/reifenliste/view.php?point=2&rtyp=10&profil=38&pic=104

Difference in tread pattern(first two: K60; last two: K60 Scout):



The siping and center rib on the Scout seems to be the difference between the K60 and K60 Scout. I thought about 140/80 - 18, but.... my spidey sense tells me "no" for my useage.

Neither Tires-Easy or Heindl showed a 120/80-18 in stock. I've been waiting for their response on that before completing the purchase, but if not I won't lose any sleep over getting a 120/90-18 instead.

Anyways, I was about five minutes away from slapping plastic down when I saw your post. So I think I'll give it a few hours and see if you've found some Scouts I can't see elsewhere, or a better deal.

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SheWolf
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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Tue Aug 16, 2011 8:25 pm

Rick, I'm getting mine from Blackfoot Direct out of Calgary. They made me a great deal; $241.50 (shipped with taxes) for both front and rear. The rear is a 120/80/18 TL 69T, front is a 90/90/21 TL 54H.

*edit* I was told that only the "B" version has the other tread.

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Jäger
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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:17 am

SheWolf wrote:
Rick, I'm getting mine from Blackfoot Direct out of Calgary. They made me a great deal; $241.50 (shipped with taxes) for both front and rear. The rear is a 120/80/18 TL 69T, front is a 90/90/21 TL 54H.

*edit* I was told that only the "B" version has the other tread.
Ah... "B" version???? I don't even see the rear tire you bought listed at their website - they have them, but not listed?

$241 Cdn versus $231 US? That is a pretty good deal for Canada, especially taxes and shipping all in. I did look at Blackfoot Direct, can't remember why I kept looking elsewhere. Maybe I better invest a phone call and have another look at Blackfoot. Did you have to send them a copy of the infamous chainsaw picture to get that deal? (You need to redo that pic astride the WRR, BTW, to be a little more on topic).

Do you know what, if any, the tread difference is between the two:
120/80/18 TL 69T
120/90-18 TT 71T

The only 120/80 - 18 that Heidenau shows on their company website is a 120/80 - 18 M/C 62T TT - a little different than what you're describing, and it's just the non-Scout K60 variant.

I think that wear bar/center rib on the Scout rear would be a nice thing to have. They talk about what a great tubeless tire it is, are you thinking of doing the Tubliss thing? I assume that's for the big 150 size suckers, but after my flat last week in a downpour that would have been right at home in the Queen Charlottes, I'd give that some thought. I rarely get flats, but changing the tube out on my last one was a memorable event, although I'm not sure the inner Tubliss tube would have survived that particular nail.

Gonna mount the front backwards like Greer suggested for the Mefos? Why don't you try it both ways... I'll hang on mounting mine for a few days until you tell me which way was best!

BTW, welcome to the world of true 50/50 dual sporting... and buy a SPOT, they're pretty damned handy out in the sticks. I'll never ride the sticks without one again.
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SheWolf
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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:36 am

The B version stands for belted, and they don't have it listed, no. They said that they should update the list but haven't done it yet; most of the tires are for the big bore ADV bikes that they sell, so he said he would check for me to see if they had the 120 in the back (they had the 140 which I would have taken). He had one in the back and I told him to ship them both as soon as he could get the waybill filled out. The 90 version is just a hair taller, same tread...and no, I didn't have to show him any pics; I just started talking tires and had his attention. Kinda funny how a girls starts talking bike stuff to a distributor and they're all ears.

As for the true 50/50 thing, I've done that before; I did have the old TW's on it and rode it like that for a bit...didn't liek them so I switched out. My old DT had 50/50 skins on it to begin with, as well as the old 175. Wore them out and went to a knobby. I'm not as wild as I used to be when I was younger, and felt that lately most of my riding has been on tarmac or fire roads. I looked around locally for a SPOT but nobody had them! I'd like to see one in person just for peace of mind, and it would be handy for sure. Isn't there a user fee or something in order to be able to use it online?

*edit* Ok, found out who sells this thing. $120 for the unit and $100 for the activation. Guess this is gonna have to wait for a bit...

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Jäger
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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:48 am

Well, I'll give them a call and see if they can do the same sale for me in a reasonable period - I have a few weeks left on my rear tire while I'm busy right now. So few decent places for small bike dual sporters in Canada that I'd rather encourage that where there is none than put more money into a well established market elsewhere.

I knew you'd done the dual sport thing before; I was just welcoming you back. Now that you're slowing down a bit... take your camera with you and lets see some of the local scenery in Home Before Dark.

I'm wandering off topic a bit here, but I'd consider a SPOT at least as important as the tires - I really do think they are that good. They'd be good for you when you're working in the bush as well as riding - I think Worksafe BC recognizes them for allowing people in specific occupations to work alone in the bush. One of my buddies is the MoF Compliance & Enforcement Officers here, and I bought him one of the second generation versions - he said MoF didn't let them take the SPOT devices home for recreational use when off work. So MoF at least uses them as well. The local SAR groups already have a bit of a laundry list of people they've gone out to get following being notified of a SPOT user in trouble.

With some thought, the new versions with the custom messaging and non-emergency help can be configured to be quite complex communicators. First because you can set up multiple profiles that each have different messages on tap, and second, the additional options allow you to use combinations of messages, time between those combination of messages, etc to put out a variety of messages. Works slick, and my wife (and I worry less about "what if" on the trail) gives me a lot less grief about all the back country travel I do on roads that sometimes haven't been drove or ridden in months or years. I hear reports of them not getting messages out; mine is always in tracking mode and I check my tracking every single time when I get back. I have seen exactly ONE track report fail to get out, and I think most people would agree the river drainage FSRs around here are surrounded by pretty high mountains and lined with lots of tall, tall trees.

Anyways, I should probably write up a comprehensive show and tell for the GPS forum, but it will take some time and thought that I can't get motivated to do right now. $120 isn't a bad price; I saw them on sale at Costco - the newest model, not the original - for $60. So I bought every single one they had in stock, gave one each to my brothers and my sister in law who does environmental surveys by herself out in the tundra up in Fort Mac. The rest my ski patroller and hunting buddies snapped right up. Funnily enough, not one person I dual sport with showed the slightest interest - maybe because most don't ride alone, or as often, or as far back as I do. Or maybe because they figured that, since I have one, they don't need one.

But, you'll pay somewhere between $60 and $120 for a new one; there's regular promotions on them. The annual subscription with tracking will cost about $150/year and I consider that cheap. Not having my wife on my ass all the time about whether I should be back where I'm going, will I call, how will I call, etc, etc (but better to be loved and cared about than being asked if the insurance is paid up) is worth the price right there.
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Jäger
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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:22 pm

Email from Heindle Engineering that just arrived:

Heidenau has been in the process of updating all of the K60 tires to be K60 Scout tires. We are currently out of stock on the 120/90-18 K60 and it is my understanding that the next batch will be 120/90-18 K60 Scout tires.

Not all of the tires that you find on the German Heidenau site are available in the U.S. Only tires sold through the US distribution network are available.


Hmmmm. Next batch... all Scouts... do I wait or do I buy?

How much more life can I squeeze out of this Trail Wing - no freebee takeoffs left...
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sturgeon

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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:45 pm

DualSport Plus in Stoney Creek (ON) has 'em. http://dualsportplus.com/tires.html

Dunno what they charge for shipping; they're local enough to me that I just go to the store.
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Jäger
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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:09 am

sturgeon wrote:
DualSport Plus in Stoney Creek (ON) has 'em. http://dualsportplus.com/tires.html

Dunno what they charge for shipping; they're local enough to me that I just go to the store.
Are you running the heidenau's, or do you just shop there?

If you're running them, curious about your opinion on them (but I'm buying them regardless; three sets of Trail Wings and it is time to try something different).

Their price would be competitive with Blackfoot, depending on what they charge for shipping, and a no brainer if you're in driving distance.

I'm going to wait on what Nathan from Blackfoot and Heidenau themselves saying about the next shipments of 120/80 and 120/90 being K60 Scouts instead of K60s.
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sturgeon

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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:07 am

Jäger wrote:
sturgeon wrote:
DualSport Plus in Stoney Creek (ON) has 'em. http://dualsportplus.com/tires.html

Dunno what they charge for shipping; they're local enough to me that I just go to the store.
Are you running the heidenau's, or do you just shop there?

If you're running them, curious about your opinion on them (but I'm buying them regardless; three sets of Trail Wings and it is time to try something different).

Their price would be competitive with Blackfoot, depending on what they charge for shipping, and a no brainer if you're in driving distance.

I'm going to wait on what Nathan from Blackfoot and Heidenau themselves saying about the next shipments of 120/80 and 120/90 being K60 Scouts instead of K60s.

As I mentioned above, I'm running them on my F800GS, but not on the WRR. Like all tires, they're a compromise. (And yes, I shop at DSP; they're good people). So far, so good on the tires, but I don't tend to take the GS into really nasty stuff. It's just too big and heavy for my poor old joints, which I exactly why I bought the WRR. Those are two vastly different bikes, suspension, weight and power, so I'd expect the tire experience to be quite different between them as well. Which is why I was interested to hear SheWolf's experience with the Heidenaus on the WRR. Right now, I'm trying my best to wear out the Trailwings on the little bike. Hopefully that'll be soon. I've run mostly TKCs and Tourances on the bigger bike, almost 40,000 km in the past 2 years over 4+ sets, so I thought I'd try the Heidenaus for hopefully better longevity. I have a Scout rear and the older front. That stripe down the middle of the rear isn't optimal for mud or sand. Tire life is so far so good, but only about 5,000 km. I expect to get about 15,000 out of the rear, more from the front. Only time will tell how they handle as they get older.
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Jäger
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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:46 pm

Thanks Sturgeon



So... I spoke with Rolf at Heidenau in Germany and Herman at Full Bore (Canadian distributor) today. And Jon at Heindl in the US.

So to sum it all up.

SheWolf isn't getting a 120/80 or a 120/90 in the "Scout" version and neither will anyone else for a while.

Heidenau is in the process of converting all their K60 series tires to the K60 Scout. They haven't done that with the 120/80 or 120/90 yet, and that might be a while, because...

... they're having a challenge just keeping up with the sudden demand for their tires. Just meeting orders for their existing K60/K60 Scout is keeping them busy. I'm told they don't make new moulds for the tires, they modify their existing moulds. I assume that means they need to get caught up and a bit ahead on production before they take moulds off the line for modification.

The center rib/belt is only on the 150/70 tires and at this point won't be showing up on the smaller sizes. Heidenau says users are finding they last an extremely long time, both mileage and performance-wise, and they attribute that longevity to the added belt.

For Canadian sellers, Herman advised me a container full of new Heidenau tires just arrived at the back door this morning. So that should take care of Canadian retaillers within the next few days. Heindl tells me they just ran out of 120/80 and 120/90 tires, so it might be sketchy in the US finding them.

What else? Oh yes... Heidenau makes Mefo's tires for them (who apparently just switched the directional arrow around on the front of their Explorers, so Greer's info was obviously on to something). And they make a bunch of Metzler's tires as well.

Now to go buy tires...
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dnf

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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:18 pm

Hijack alert.

Anybody try running Trials type tires? My dealer said more and more folks are switching to them.
I need some rubber and these Trailwings are dragging me down.
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Jäger
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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:30 pm

dnf wrote:
Hijack alert.

Anybody try running Trials type tires? My dealer said more and more folks are switching to them.
I need some rubber and these Trailwings are dragging me down.
If you check the threads here in Tires, you'll find a number of topics dealing with Trials-type tires.
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sturgeon

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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:10 pm

Jäger wrote:
[...]
The center rib/belt is only on the 150/70 tires and at this point won't be showing up on the smaller sizes. Heidenau says users are finding they last an extremely long time, both mileage and performance-wise, and they attribute that longevity to the added belt.

My 140/80-17 rear definitely has the centre rib (and is a Scout). Dang! I just came back from a visit to DSP; I should've gone in the back to look at the 120-18's.

Oh well. Old, forgetful, what can I say Rolling Eyes

Here's a pic from when the rear was new, compared to a new TKC in the same size

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Jäger
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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:47 am

sturgeon wrote:
Jäger wrote:
[...]
The center rib/belt is only on the 150/70 tires and at this point won't be showing up on the smaller sizes. Heidenau says users are finding they last an extremely long time, both mileage and performance-wise, and they attribute that longevity to the added belt.

My 140/80-17 rear definitely has the centre rib (and is a Scout). Dang! I just came back from a visit to DSP; I should've gone in the back to look at the 120-18's.

Oh well. Old, forgetful, what can I say Rolling Eyes
That's pretty funny - you're more up to date on the tires than Rolf at Heidenau.

But perhaps our discussion was just about 18" tires. Or there was a language issue.

Anyways, it sounds like nothing new in WRR sizes will show up in the next month or so.

That is a tall looking tire for both supposedly being the same size...
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sturgeon

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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:50 am

Jäger wrote:

That's pretty funny - you're more up to date on the tires than Rolf at Heidenau.

But perhaps our discussion was just about 18" tires. Or there was a language issue.

Anyways, it sounds like nothing new in WRR sizes will show up in the next month or so.

That is a tall looking tire for both supposedly being the same size...

Well, in my defense (or Rolf's?), the Heidenaus have been a topic of conversation in the 800GS crowd for over a year now.

It's definitely taller than the TKC, and both are taller than the stock 150/70-17 size for that bike. But I think the wide-angle lens exaggerates the diff a bit as well. I, and several others, have started using the 140 width because it seems to work better. Greatly improves the handling for me.
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Jäger
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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:25 am

It's probably my error, not Rolf's - he was, after all, somewhere in the Heidenau factory when he was speaking to me. So presumably knows a bit about the tires being made not too far from where he was sitting. His English as a second language is far superior to my Deutsch as a second language.
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rokka

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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:31 am

Jäger wrote:
SheWolf wrote:
Not sure if anyone has tired these...but this girl is going to take a HUGE jump into the unknown.



90/90/21 front and 120/80/18 on the back.
Well, talk about coincidences. I came here to post a similar decision; I'd been looking back and forth between the Mefo Explorer's and the Heidenau's. Figured that for a whole lot less money and a similar looking tire with a good reputation, I'd go Heidenau.

I'm about to complete a purchase on ALMOST the same thing, except I've been waiting for a few responses from sellers to make sure I'm crystal clear that I'm getting exactly what I want in the way of Heidenau's. The "Scout" and size thing is the outstanding questions.

First, where are you buying them, and how much?

Distributors are hard to find (but growing); the best pricing I could find was www.tires-easy.com
Heidenau K 60 120/90-18 TT 71T M/C $111.40
Heidenau K60 Scout 90/90-21 TL 54T M/C $80.80

And $40 shipping...

Heindl Engineering had about the same, for about $10 more after shipping was added.

I'm wondering where you got the K60 Scout in 120/80-18? The online dealers didn't have the Scout in that size, and Heidenau's website seems to confirm that:
Their K60 Scout series - closest is a 140/80 - 18 M/C 70S TT M+S
http://www.reifenwerk-heidenau.de/modules/reifenliste/view.php?point=2&rtyp=10&profil=162&pic=99&lang=en

The online dealers and the manufacturer website seem to indicate you have to go to the "ordinary" K60 to get 120/80 - 18:
http://www.reifenwerk-heidenau.de/modules/reifenliste/view.php?point=2&rtyp=10&profil=38&pic=104

Difference in tread pattern(first two: K60; last two: K60 Scout):



The siping and center rib on the Scout seems to be the difference between the K60 and K60 Scout. I thought about 140/80 - 18, but.... my spidey sense tells me "no" for my useage.

Neither Tires-Easy or Heindl showed a 120/80-18 in stock. I've been waiting for their response on that before completing the purchase, but if not I won't lose any sleep over getting a 120/90-18 instead.

Anyways, I was about five minutes away from slapping plastic down when I saw your post. So I think I'll give it a few hours and see if you've found some Scouts I can't see elsewhere, or a better deal.


That tire looks very intresting. Looking forward to some reports about it.
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Jäger
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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:41 pm

sturgeon wrote:
DualSport Plus in Stoney Creek (ON) has 'em. http://dualsportplus.com/tires.html
Yeah... I waited a few days. Didn't hear from them. Then they got back to me about three hours after I purchased and arranged drop shipping from Blackfoot. And priced them $30 cheaper, approximately - $191 for the tires; $35 shipping clear across the country. They were preoccupied preparing for some Beemer thing. Damn Beemer's always costing you money - even when you don't own one.

Damn... that's like... five tanks of gas... two new tire tubes... Two two-fours of Kokanee... Two Papa John's pizzas.

Anyways, K60 Scout front, K60 rear, $251 delivered from Blackfoot. The $10 diff from Lynn was I got the Scout front, she didn't (according to Nathan).

Blackfoot and DualSport look like two good places for Canadian riders to deal with.

It would be interesting to ride them side by side with new Trailwings, see if there's any noticeable difference in how they feel. Not much point with comparing them to a Trailwing rear worn down to nothing, and a front that's about three quarters done. For 50/50 dual sporting that's overwhelmingly dry conditions, no sand, no gnarly roots and rocks trails, the Trailwing has proven to be an excellent tire. I have strayed into mud with them just often enough to know why people fear them in the slop, however.
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sturgeon

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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:48 am

Jäger wrote:
sturgeon wrote:
DualSport Plus in Stoney Creek (ON) has 'em. http://dualsportplus.com/tires.html
Yeah... I waited a few days. Didn't hear from them. Then they got back to me about three hours after I purchased and arranged drop shipping from Blackfoot. And priced them $30 cheaper, approximately - $191 for the tires; $35 shipping clear across the country. They were preoccupied preparing for some Beemer thing. Damn Beemer's always costing you money - even when you don't own one.

Yeah, that's the annual BMW SummerFest at Mosport. They didn't really want to go, probably didn't sell much there, but it gets their name out there so they go. They're much better to deal with via phone than email, I find (time zone diffs notwithstanding). And they have a toll-free number.
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PostSubject: Re: Heidenau K60 Scout   Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:29 pm

"...the Trailwing has proven to be an excellent tire. I have strayed into mud with them just often enough to know why people fear them in the slop, however."

I concur but swerving sideways through the slop, trying to stay upright, is the most fun I've had on my WR. Absolutely NO traction in mud. The only time I really FEAR it is when the water on top of the mud is deeper than expected!
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