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 Throttle On Off at idle

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Rapid Dog




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:43 pm

Bob
I just moved mine last night so I'll report back when I get a chance to take it around the b lock.
My stock setting was 16 and like 98 on top.
Reading the prospective that higher number at the bottom brings smoother response at low speeds, I went with 18 which made the WFO 100.
Seems safe enough to me since 19 tipped over 100 at the top.

We use to diddle with the TPS on Beemers. The FI bikes all had the same crappy OFF ON throttle response. MY Ducati was the same.
Nothing money can't fix budah
Usually a combination of gearing, throttle (G2 Throttle Tamer), fueling, etc. all help to aid this. I doubt one single thing is going to do it all.

We shall see...
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slapcorn

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PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:08 pm

That's exactly the tool I was gonna make!!!
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Kansas Bob

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PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:16 pm

Well........... I took some more pics of the process, and put it back together. I was in the middle of the range 16-97 or there abouts, and changed it to 19-100. It's hotter than the hubs of Hell here so I just took it around the mile section for a test ride, and ........... It's a different bike! cheers Very different on the bottom end, much better. Lugs out of the hole easier. Throttle snatch all but gone. I need to do a longer ride in the cool weather tomorrow morning, before I say 100% for sure but so far so good! Very happy

I did notice after getting back and checking the number on a hot bike the range had changed to 18-100

It'll take me a while to edit the pics, but as soon as they are done I'll post'um up!
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Kansas Bob

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PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:27 pm

OK, Once all the plastic is off, and you remove the fuel tank this is what the right side of the bike looks like.



The rubber flap thing in the pic is held on by one tyrap and needs to be slid up out of the way.

You can just see the top screw by looking down through the frame at the side of the TB.



I could just barley get on it with my tool but not the bottom one.
Next loosen the clamps on the TB to cylinder rubber connector.



I tied the coolant hose back out of the way with a piece of wire.

Then loosen the clamp on the other side of the TB at the air filter rubber housing. I used ball tip long reach allen wrench sockets to do them both.



The smaller hose coming from the top of the radiator goes through a valve of some sort on the TB. I removed mine but you may not have to because once I found the secret it didn't seem to be a necessity. Mine pee'ed a couple ounces of antifreeze onto the floor but stopped. You could catch it if you wanted to or add some new if you were worried about the level. Mine was pretty full so I may not do anything.



Now twist your TB back and forth to loosen things up. There are some hoses over between the where the throttle cables come close to the frame. You can push them out of the way so you get maximum rotation of the TB counter clockwise standing looking from the back of the bike. I disconnected the wiring connector going to the TB to make it easier to see and operate the tool, but don't forget to plug it back in before you start making adjustments!

With the TB twisted as far as it will go the top screw is fairly easy to reach now but the bottom one still is Not......... so there is one more step, and it isn't for the faint of heart................................

Get a large flat blade screw driver, and stick it down between the steel sub-frame and where the air filter boot clamp is on the tail of the TB................ and PRY! Pray



It really wasn't all that bad, but I had to pull fairly hard to move the TB in it's rubber mountings just enough to be able angle the torx bit into the head of the screw. Once it was in there I could back off on the pry bar, and the frame actually helped hold the torx in the screw head.

I worked on the hardest one to get to first... broke it loose and left it just snug. I then did the easy screw the same way. I used a flat punch with an itty bitty hammer to make my adjustments, and tightened the easy one back tight to hold the TPS. Then I pried the TB back over to tighten the hard one down tight. Straightened up the TB, checked my numbers one last time, and started tightening all the clamps back up.

I found that once the TB was Rotated and pried to the side just that little amount I could work from the top of the frame rail, or up from the bottom........ which ever way made it so I could get on the screw head and move it the direction I wanted. It was all very tight, and I had to work slow and deliberately.
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Rapid Dog




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:51 pm

....106 when I left work today, but only 86 at home.
I put the plastics back on and rode around the local trails, Baja-esque sections, slowest stuff I could fine.
The bike does seem a little more well mannered putting around in slow mo.
Setting at 18/

So Bob, you adjusted to 19 and WO read 100?
When I set at 19 it was like 101...
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Kansas Bob

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PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:56 pm

Rapid Dog wrote:
....106 when I left work today, but only 86 at home.
I put the plastics back on and rode around the local trails, Baja-esque sections, slowest stuff I could fine.
The bike does seem a little more well mannered putting around in slow mo.
Setting at 18/

So Bob, you adjusted to 19 and WO read 100?
When I set at 19 it was like 101...

It only read 19 - 100 right after I did the adjustment. As soon as I rode it the reading changed to 18 - 100 and that's what it read the last time I checked it.
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Kansas Bob

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PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:48 am

I put on 20 miles this morning, and it rained over night for the first time Weeks!! I even got to play in the mud a little!

Bottom line is everything down low is much improved , and performance hasn't suffered. Back in April I did some technical riding in Arkansas and dumped twice in first gear because it just wouldn't pull down low. It would either cough and die or blast me off the trail when I opened the throttle. This morning I was able to actually get it to "chug" a little........ It sounded like a flipping KLR Very happy

I checked the numbers again, and it's holding at 18 - 100, I'm happy with it the way it is now, and my 47 tooth should be here today. Hopefully that will improve Reeally slow riding even more. cheers
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Rapid Dog




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:43 am

...ditto the 47T sprocket, you'll really be able to chug then. Very happy That's the rear I have and it's perf. Still can do 70mph no problemo.
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grnd0




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:18 pm

I had the same issues with starts and stalling. I do a lot of 2nd gear starts. I saw this thread and
was going to move the sensor but tried just increasing the idle screw. Waaaayy better. Isn't it
really doing the same thing? Couldn't believe the difference.
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chuckP




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:48 pm

subed for reading later

Is this just an 'R' issue? Or are 'WRX' guys also experiencing this?
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Rapid Dog




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:58 pm

same bike, smaller wheels
both have the same motor
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BigBird




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:46 pm

My 2008R has a BAD stumble/jerkiness problem off idle so I just read this theread to see if I could learn anything.

Being a lazy guy I tried a variation of the high 5 approach of just tapping on the TPS with a punch to move it without loosening the torx fasteners.

Rather than tapping on the "top right hand corner" to rodate it CCW, I tapped down on the rear fastener boss right above the torx bolt hole.

This moved my setting from 16-96 to 19-100 BUT it caused the throttle to drag to the point that it would stay at WFO.

After thinkintg about this I realized that I hadn't simply ROTATED the TPS but rather had moved the back side down with moving the front side.

This apparently created a bind inside the TB that put the drag on the throttle.

SO still being lazy I tapped up and back on the front fastener boss to, hopefully, get the TPS recentered on the throuttle shaft and remove the bind.

This worked to eliminate the bind but changed the reading to 19-102.

I haven't put things back together yet to see the rusults but I don't expect that the 102 vs 100 is significant in that the computer probably just ignores any value over 100 and even if it didn't the difference at higher throttle opening should be insignificant.

I'll let you know how this works after I test the bike.
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pbnut

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PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:35 pm

I checked my values in diagnostic mode just now.

I think this is out of spec... 16-92. I guess I'm off to Sears for some security bits.
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BigBird




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:21 pm

I have PCV w Autotune with which I had been unable to cure the MAJOR off idle stuble (with mixture changes and accel pump feature of the PCV/Autotune)

I realized that the idle speed was down at the bottom end of the spec or lower. I also found that increasing the idle speed seemed to SOLVE the big stumble upon opening the throttle :<) Strangley, even with the idle screw so loose it was beyond where the O ring provides locking drag the idle speed was a little below the max spec of 1650? However 1600+ was sufficient to fix the stumble. I sort of rest the PCV map and Autotune target AFRs and haven't ridden it enough to do any map adjustments. BUT it is now running fine.

Re: The resetting of the TPS to 19-102 didn't seem to fix the stumble (may have helped a little)? The calibration of the PCV is done as one of the last steps and basically takes the closed and open positions and makes them 0% and 100% for purposes of the PCV.

My net take is that the first thing I'd try if I had a stumble is increasing the idle.
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pbnut

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PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:42 am

Well I got mine adjusted to read 19 and 96 now.

I pretty much removed the throttle body to get access to those security screws.

Upon firing it up the idle would rise and fall semi-rapidly and then the bike would die after a few seconds of that. Once I recalibrated the TPS in the Power Commander program idle was fixed. I tweaked the idle setting once everything was working.

Hard to say if there's a difference yet. I took it down the street to Home Depot for some hardware, but it's such a short trip I didn't notice anything. Over the next few days of commuting I should be able to make a determination.
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pbnut

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PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:30 pm

The TPS adjustment is worth while.

Before, if I would ever-so-slightly open the throttle the bike would die. There was a dead spot there. The only way to get past it was to quickly rev beyond that point.

That dead spot is now gone. Low speed throttle openings are much less choppy. I am pleased.
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Kansas Bob

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PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:09 am

Kansas Bob wrote:
I put on 20 miles this morning, and it rained over night for the first time Weeks!! I even got to play in the mud a little!

Bottom line is everything down low is much improved , and performance hasn't suffered. Back in April I did some technical riding in Arkansas and dumped twice in first gear because it just wouldn't pull down low. It would either cough and die or blast me off the trail when I opened the throttle. This morning I was able to actually get it to "chug" a little........ It sounded like a flipping KLR Very happy

I checked the numbers again, and it's holding at 18 - 100, I'm happy with it the way it is now, and my 47 tooth should be here today. Hopefully that will improve Reeally slow riding even more. cheers

Up Date:
In July I put on 600 miles in Colorado. Very happy with the bike now! Throttle Snatch in the tricky low speed rock sections was minimal, and overall the bike preformed excellent!! cheers

Current set up is Michelin desert front, 120- T63 rear, 44 tooth rear with stock chain, Factory lowering adjustment rear with forks moved up as far as they will go, Factory fork oil lever lowered 3/4 inch, and TPS re set to 18-100. Bike is 100% stock otherwise, and I run Lucas fuel conditioner / upper cylinder lubricant which really does help the power, and offers the fuel pump some lubrication.

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YAMAHAPPY




PostSubject: TPS adjustment   Sun Nov 25, 2012 4:42 pm

Thank you Kansas Bob !! Your foto's and tool helped so greatly that once I understood the safe (lets not break anything else) procedure and with my Machinist Tradesman knowledge it only took maybe 15 minutes to do the actual adjustment once the plastic was removed. The only thing I did differently to pry the the throttle body aside to access the bottom screw, was to use a wooden handle mallet and entered the frame a little further back where I could pry against the flange with the hole at the back end of the TB. Wood is better than plastic screwdriver handle because it has better friction and won't slip. But the best info was accessing the Diagnostic tool in my gauge, rather than going out to buy a sensitive voltmeter and poking into wire insulation.
This forum is a great source of info and it is all because of the membership. I am very greatful.
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Kansas Bob

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PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:41 pm

YAMAHAPPY wrote:
Thank you Kansas Bob !!

Glad it worked out for you! I really believe doing it the right way and loosening both screws is the best way to go. Since I did mine I've read a couple of times where people get the whole setup in a bind beating on it causing the throttle to stick at WFO.......... not good.
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YAMAHAPPY




PostSubject: tps adjustment   Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:12 am

Today I was able to get out for a ride in the coastal mountains just north of Vancouver BC to try my bike since I've done the TPS adjustment. OUTFREEKIN STANDING !!!!!!!!! You members were absolutely right when you say that the effort results in a whole new bike rideability. I began with a diagnostic reading of 16-96 and bumped it up to 16-98. Up and down trails I can now easily feather the throttle controlling the acceleration, and the deceleration has no more of that terrible "engine braking" that wore out my arms big time. I can just coast if I want with no choppy throttle (almost like a 2 stroke). And as an added bonus, I can make wheelies in first gear with so little effort with the 13/45 ratio. The throttle response is snappy!
I've also just got my suspension back from FACTORY CONNECTION thumb in Corona for a service since they re-valved it last year and FC did a great job again. We use them for all of our bikes. I now have a perfect bike after 4 years of ownership.
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IdahoWR250R




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:12 pm

I just purchased my 2009 WR250R with 777 miles on it. It also had the on-off throttle at low idle. The throttle settings were 16-96. I had the dealer adjust it under warranty to 19-100.
I was surprised at the difference it made. Very nice. Thank you for the ideas.
Cheers
IdahoWR250R
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bsheet2

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PostSubject: Smoothed out a bit   Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:20 pm

HAppy New YEars folks !

My WR had the snatchy throttle off ide syndrome. I pulled everthing off to have a look at doing the throttle settings adjustment. But those bolts are intimidating to get to.

Instead, I got my CO mode going so I could check my idle RPMS and adjust the fuel mix at idle. Turns out my idle was too low and I riched up the fuel mix a bit at idle. Seems to have smoothed out the snatchy throttle off idle a good bit. If you want to do this th einfo is in this thread.
http://wr250rforum.forumotion.com/t3769-wr250-r-x-built-in-programmer

Much easier than tackiling those bolts to adjust the throttle settings. I still want to tackle tha another day.
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Cutthroat Bill

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PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:54 am

I adjusting the TPS yesterday. I ended up loosening just the front screw. I did so by grinding down (shortening) a t25 bit, and using a tiny 6mm wrench to turn it. It worked fine, if bit finicky. I used some tape to hold the bit in the jaw of the wrench, while inserting it from below, pulling the line from the radiator outwards and out of the way.
I couldn't get to the rear screw as there's way less room there, so I tried tapping on it instead from above. Nothing happened at first, so I proceeded to grind down the t25 bit further, to the point where the wrench no longer had anything to hold onto. The idea was to make my own little tool for this part. Turns out that's kinda hard without a dremel.
Getting tired of it all, I started tapping the unloosened screw again, and waddya know? It suddenly gave it, and started turning.
I adjusted it from 16/96 to 19/99. Having ruined the t25 bit, I couldn't tighten the front screw, but I decided to try the bike regardless.
I rode it for 6 km, doing about 60 km/h to warm it up a bit. It was below freezing temperature, so I'm not entirely convinced the warm up procedure worked. I don't even know if it would matter at all. Anyway, the bike didn't seem too much different. It might've been slightly better off idle, but it certainly wasn't the vast improvement I was expecting after what I read from others.
I*m going to get hold on another t25 bit, tighten up the TPS, and try the bike again once the weather gets warmer, sometime after march I reckon. I'll let you know then if there's an improvement.
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nadams4733




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Wed May 14, 2014 10:11 pm

i have an 2008 yamaha wr250r as well and i have adjusted my tps from a .63 to a .73 and i didnt feel a difference in the jerky throttle. is there anything that anybody has done that is a for sure fix to the jerky throttle. i checked the numbers on the diag and it said my bike is 17 - 97. how do i adjust to make those numbers 19-100 is it the same way i adjusted the tps. when i adjusted the tps i didnt know to check those numbers intill reading this post so i dont know if adjusting the tps made any changes to the numbers.
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Biglake




PostSubject: Re: Throttle On Off at idle   Thu May 15, 2014 7:32 pm

Bumping the idle speed up a bit and richening the CO up a bit fixed the jerky throttle on mine.

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