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 Chains and Sprockets

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Chadx





Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyThu Sep 24, 2009 8:41 pm

OK, to confuse matters even worse...Apparently the WR250R and WR250F/YZ250F countershaft sprockets are NOT interchangeable. That, or many sources are plotting to make me go out of my mind. I took the PBI 12T sprocket (Part 757-12 C/S) back to the dealership from where I picked it up last night. One of the mechanics helped me since the parts guy was loading up a sold bike. He looked up the part number and confirmed that this sprocket is for a WR250F. He looked up the PBI 12T sprocket for a WR250R and it was a different part number. He did the same thing for sunstar. Again, different part numbers. He looked up the countershaft for the WR250R and WR250F. Different parts. I said "sure, they are different parts, but everyone is saying the shaft diameter and splines are the same". He says nope. Different diameters. That would explain why the PBI countershaft sprocket's shaft hole was too big to fit my WR250R shaft.

What that doesn't explain is why and how the heck some folks are fitting a WR250R sprocket to their bike. The few people I've talked to recently have run into the same thing. Ordered a WR250F sprocket and it doesn't fit. What the heck is going on here?! Any chance folks actually ordered a WR250R sprocket and just thought they ordered a WR250F and that is why it fit? Or just getting lucky with tightening down the nut so tight, it works well enough? Possible cause of some reports of vibrations? It's all getting a bit hard to figure out.

In any case, the dealer was great and gave me a refund which they did NOT have to do since I told them to order a part that was for a different bike than what I own. Very cool on their part. Last night I ordered the thumpertalk JT 12T for the R. Today they called me and those are on back order until Oct. 12. Once again the forces of evil conspire against me. But wait, there is hope. He looked up a Sunstar 12T for the R and they had one or two left. It's on it's way.

So, I'm not saying definitively either way, but if you are ordering a countershaft sprocket, it might be best to go with a WR250R specific sprocket and stay clear of assuming any old WR250F/YZ250F sprocket will fit our bikes. Would love to have someone with both bikes, or access to both, pull off each bikes sprocket and try it on the other bikes' countershaft. My guess is they will not swap. Still, that doesn't explain how a few folks say they will unless there was some type of mix up or misunderstanding and they are really using a R sprocket. Not impossible because even the dealers mix up the F and R designator since it is opposite on Honda. F is for fun and the R is the for Race where Yammy used F for Four-Stroke Race and now R for our dual sport.
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YZEtc

YZEtc



Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyFri Sep 25, 2009 7:39 am

My belief is that the sprocket supplier (PBI, in this case) has their application chart wrong.
I just went through a similar situation with a Vortex brand sprocket and a 2006 KX-450F - the application chart supplied by Vortex listed a part number that would not fit the bike.

The sprocket I have on my WR-250R is a 12-tooth Sunstar.
The Sunstar application chart lists the same part number for the YZ-250F, WR-250F, and WR-250R.
The cardboard packaging for the sprocket even lists these models on it.
Perfect fit. :)

Naturally, the countershaft part numbers for a WR-250R and WR-250F will be different because the engines share little in common.
They just both happen to be called WRs, which is just another marketing angle to sell bikes, not make things easy to understand. :)
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SheWolf
Alpha Rider
SheWolf



Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyFri Sep 25, 2009 10:39 pm

JT is is JTF1590-12 and it FITS.

_________________
A wolf's voice echoed down the mountain 'Share the bounty of the hunt with your brothers and sisters, and forever be strong and free.' Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Wolf_b10
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antipode

antipode



Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyMon Sep 28, 2009 6:22 pm

I bought and fit a JT 12T yesterday to my WR.
The reference says 31-5NL-12/09, I have no idea what this means but it fits the bike.
I just went to my local shop and asked for a 12T for a WR250R and that's what they gave me.
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Chadx





Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyMon Sep 28, 2009 8:14 pm

antipode wrote:
I bought and fit a JT 12T yesterday to my WR.
The reference says 31-5NL-12/09, I have no idea what this means but it fits the bike.
I just went to my local shop and asked for a 12T for a WR250R and that's what they gave me.

Hmmm, maybe JT is getting in on the name game and came up with a different part number for the R. I just got my sunstar in the mail. Part number 38812. Same part number for the F and the R. The label even says:
Yamaha
YZ 125 05-09
YZ 250F 01-09
WR 250F 01-09
WR250R/X 08-09

My eyeball says this shaft hole is a smaller diameter than the PBI that I returned to the dealer. Won't have time to fit it tonight. Maybe tomorrow night. I'm anxious to regain the snap I lost after installing the D606 a couple weeks ago.
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Chadx





Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyMon Sep 28, 2009 9:12 pm

antipode wrote:
Chadx wrote:
I'm anxious to regain the snap I lost after installing the D606 a couple weeks ago.

Chadx I am seriously 'challenged' in the mechanical department.
Can you explain me why changing tires makes you loose anything and in what way? is because the tires have different diameter or what?

Yep, the stock rear trailwing was 120/80-18 and the Dunlop D606, that everyone favors, is 120/90-18. When I compared my odometer to my GPS before and after the swap, the tires seems to change my miles traveled by over 5%. That's quite a gearing change. Equivalent to around 2 teeth on the rear sprocket. Here is a quick chart I threw together to compare gear ratios with various sprockets. One column for a tire the stock height and the second column for the D606 or any other tire that is about 5% taller.




Front Rear Ratio with stock tire size Ratio with D606 (based on 5% change)
14 46 3.286 3.115
13 43 3.308 3.136
14 47 3.357 3.183
13 44 3.385 3.209
14 48 3.429 3.250
13 45 3.462 3.282
13 46 3.538 3.354
12 43 3.583 3.397
13 47 3.615 3.427
12 44 3.667 3.476
13 48 3.692 3.500
12 45 3.750 3.555
13 49 3.769 3.573
12 46 3.833 3.634
12 47 3.917 3.713
12 48 4.000 3.792
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Chadx





Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyTue Sep 29, 2009 8:12 am

antipode wrote:
That's certainly a substantial change! I never though a tire change could affect gearing so dramatically.

Why is people favoring the 120/90?
An Australian magazine called 'Trailzone' has had a project wr250r for about six months and one of their recomendations was to avoid 'over tiring', they recommended going for a 100/100-18. That will sit between the 96 and the 108 of the 120/80 and 120/90 respectively. Do you know what will be the effect of having a narrower tire?

First I should note that my 5% calculation was comparing a worn out trailwing with a brand new D606. A fairer comparison would have been new to new. Some one looked up the manufacturers claimed diameter on both, though, and I think that was around 4.8% difference.

The D606 is being used because it's one of the better dual sport tires. It does not come in a 120/80, hence we are using the 120/90. If it came in 120/80, that is what I would have gone with since it would slightly reduce tire weight. Trailzones recommendation makes sense depending on your terrain of choice. You would have a slightly smaller contact patch and, much like in automobiles, that would afford slightly less traction in many situations. Whether that was a big deal would depend on the rider. I would think it would be most noticeable in loose soil, like sand, or when pushing the bike to it's limit elsewhere. If the tire weight was greatly reduced, that would reduce unsprung weight, which would be good, and also help acceleration a tad since the engine would have less mass to get spinning. The weight difference might be minimal, though, and not have much impact, but it would be interesting to try.
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Chadx





Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyTue Sep 29, 2009 10:08 pm

Success at last. Slapped on the Sunstar 12T sprocket (Part number 38812) and it fit like a dream. Only took about 20 minutes (since I had so much practice the first time). Took a quick spin and, due to conditions, couldn't tell much of a difference. I only had time for a quick ride on our gravel road so there wasn't enough traction to hook up and feel a difference. When I get it on the asphalt, I'll report back. I expect to feel a reasonable improvement in acceleration and also expect it to pull both of our overdrive gears (fifth and sixth) better.

When I swapped the trailwings for the D606, my max speed, in sixth gear, dropped about 10mph. Sixth just wouldn't pull like it used to. Even fifth now ran out of steam at 80mph (wind resistance limited and not rev limiter limited). Keep in mind most days my dirtbagz are full and stick out far since they sit over my emerson/rotopax side rack. They really catch the wind. My speedometer will be even further off now, but I'll be able to tell how well I keep up with highway traffic. Also, I have the speedoDRD laying here ready to install to correct the speedo/odo.
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Chadx





Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyWed Sep 30, 2009 8:54 am

The first thing I noticed is more drag on the rear. When the rear wheel was off the ground and I spun it to lube the chain, it didn't spin as easily as in the past. That might be because my chain guide/guard is getting so worn, or that the 12 tooth lets it drag more when it's off the ground. When pushing the bike around the garage, it doesn't feel any different.

Pouring rain and 39 degrees this morning. Driving the cage to work rather than the bike so it will be another day before I do a full test ride.
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BPG

BPG



Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyThu Oct 01, 2009 9:36 pm

greer wrote:
BPG,

Holler back and let us know how it works out; I figured I'd go with Rocky Mtn too, when the time comes. Already got the Tusk filters. Thanks.

Sarah
Will do.. Only actually ordered tonight, I was doing some research on a rear tire that I wanted to include in the order (to get some a 'dat free shipping!)

I have to say, Rocky Mountain ATV ROCKS Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 61865 Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 61865 - killer customer service, some of the lowest prices around, plus their website WORKS and is packed w/ useful info (dabble around in Denniskirk.com for 5 minutes and you'll be trying to gouge your eyes out w/ your mouse!).

I ordered their Primary Drive steel sprockets: 47T rear ($20) and 13T front ($9) (I already have a 12T steel front), a nice 8,120 lb tensile strength 520 ORH X-ring chain ($59). Also picked up a spare master link, the tapered bolts for the rear sprocket ($9), a rear Kenda Trak MasterII tire ($50), and a few Tusk-brand oil filters ($4 each).

Free shipping since it was over $100, and I found a few online codes (10% off any order, $20 off orders over $150). REALLY saved a bundle! Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 89954
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Chadx





Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyTue Oct 06, 2009 9:28 pm

OK, I've ridden with the 12/43 combo a few days now along with the taller D606 rear tire. I wish I could say there was a huge difference, but it is not huge. Noticeable, but that is about it. It will surprise me now and again when coasting near a complete stop then dumping the clutch to accelerate around stopped traffic. In that scenario, the front tire will lift off and skim the ground. It also pulls sixth gear better, but it just seems to be about where stock gearing and stock tires were. Of course, my stock rear was nearly bald when I swapped it out, so the effective gearing was probably deeper than with a newer (read: taller) rear tire.

I ran the stock gearing with the taller D606 for about two or three weeks and that was a real drag. I had to use 5th if I wanted to run faster than an indicated 70mph because 6th wouldn't pull it (my dirtbagz are usually full and catch a lot of wind). I guess I got my hopes up too much and set myself up. A 12T is a good $25 test to determine what gearing I want in the future. I'll run this setup next summer and decide if I want to swap then or actually wait until everything wears out. This gives me a feel for what a 13/46 combo will be like. Since I don't plan any exhaust or programmer updates, I'm guessing I'll be going with a 13/48 combo rather than 13/46. That also leaves the door open for a 14/48 for long rides, though the 13/48 will work just fine, just get worse gas mileage running highway speeds for long distances.

Going down one tooth in front, to a 12T, is like going up about 3 teeth in back. The taller Dunlop is like taking away 2 teeth in back, so I'm netting 1 tooth gain. I didn't confirm the D606 weighs more, but I imagine there is a tiny gain there. Basically, I feel like I'm back to about stock gearing or just a sliver deeper. Oh, and no buzzy vibrations, but there is a barely noticeable harmonic sound (with associated vibe) at highway speed. It hums for a second, then off a second, then on, then off, etc. I have only noticed it 4 or 5 times, so I must have to be going a specific speed for the harmonics to be just so. No bother. Just something I noticed.

Just one persons experience. Yours may vary.
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Chadx





Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyWed Oct 07, 2009 8:11 am

Good to know. It's probably been there all along and I just got used to it, but "re-found" it now that I was listening for anything weird with the 12T installed. Thanks.

I still kind of feel like this sprocket may cause the chain slider to wear more. On the kick stand, it looks like the chain runs at an ever so slightly tighter angle, vs. the 13T, where it angles across the top of the chain guard, but then, maybe that is not the case when my weight is on it and the swing arm and linkage move around to a weighted stance. I'm probably looking too hard and just need to ride it and not think about it. Ha.
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SheWolf
Alpha Rider
SheWolf



Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyWed Oct 07, 2009 3:48 pm

The chain will wear a groove in it a bit but that's as far as it goes. I've run this 12 on from almost the start and the chain slider hasn't worn down any more than the two little grooves from when I first started riding it.

_________________
A wolf's voice echoed down the mountain 'Share the bounty of the hunt with your brothers and sisters, and forever be strong and free.' Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Wolf_b10
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Chadx





Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyWed Oct 07, 2009 7:37 pm

SheWolf wrote:
The chain will wear a groove in it a bit but that's as far as it goes. I've run this 12 on from almost the start and the chain slider hasn't worn down any more than the two little grooves from when I first started riding it.

Thanks, shewolf. Good to know. By the way, how many miles do you have on the 12T? I figure a bunch by now. I'm curious how long they hold up. Stock chain and rear sprocket?

My stock 13T was getting a bit grooved. I flipped it since I had it off and ran it flipped for a few weeks while the 12T shipped. I guess a person can get more miles out of one that way.
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BPG

BPG



Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyWed Oct 07, 2009 9:41 pm

Update re: Primary Drive chains & sprockets from Rocky Mtn ATV -


  • didn't need the tapered bolt kit for the rear sprocket after all - the Primary Drive 47T rear came pre-drilled for flat and tapered bolts, so I just re-used the stock bolts.
  • The Primary Drive X-ring chain (112 link) came as a clip type, went right on.
  • The Primary Drive front 13T sprocket - labeled "2008 WR250R", (edit) does fit, just fine - just be sure to clean all the mud out of the front sprocket area first!Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 724854
  • I had a Tag 12T front sprocket (for a WR250F, LOL!) already on the bike, decided to leave it there vs. swapping the stock 13T back in. WOW does the bike have some low-end grunt and control now!! While the 12/43 ratio felt really good, the 12/47 is plain silly.
  • Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 805204 Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 204616 Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 525406
  • Still have to try it out on the highway, but so far I like it. I was planning on running 14, 13 & 12T fronts - might just stick w/ 13 for commuting & 12T for dirt.


Last edited by BPG on Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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motokid
Moderator
motokid



Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyThu Oct 08, 2009 11:25 am

http://www.mototraction.com/ <--- I got my AFAM 12t from here

Slid right onto the countershaft splines with ease.

_________________
2008 WR250X
Gearing: 13t - 48t
Power Commander 5 / PC-V
Airbox Door Removed - Flapper glued - AIS removed
FmF Q4
Bridgestone Battlax BT-003rs
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bash3r

bash3r



Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyMon Oct 19, 2009 7:59 pm

just regarding the removal of the stock 13T... save A LOT of time and invest in a compressor + air impact gun.. I think the compressor I got was $100 and the impact was $30.. i had my little wife (105lbs) step on the rear break and ZIP with the air gun, came right off, took maybe 1.736167 seconds.

Well worth the money, plus you need the compressor for tires, getting grips off, spraying dust out the computer, etc... Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 61865
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dirtytrixx400

dirtytrixx400



Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptySun Oct 25, 2009 10:02 pm

http://www.rockymountainatv.com/productDetail.do?navTitle=Drive&webCatId=9&navType=type&webTypeId=124&prodFamilyId=2192&listingId=&sizeAttr=1225#vehicleSelect

i'll try it again.

it's rockymtn atv/mc

the link was directly to the page with their sprocket....50 tooth for $19.95...says it is in stock

the bolt kit is listed right under the sprocket detail and says must use for a ttr,but this is the same tapered type bolt kit for our bikes too.
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shawngrodz

shawngrodz



Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyTue Oct 27, 2009 12:27 am

So based on what I've read, (head spinning) it seems if I'm looking for the most aggresive gearing for the trails, 12/47 or 12/48 is the way to go. I currently run a 12/43. The only road riding I'm doing is short 1-2 mile stints between the woods and I feel as I need more ummmff on the steeps. Am I on the right track here? Also, assuming I want something super reliable and money isn't a concern, what's my best bet? I assume I'll need a new chain as well . . .so any suggestions here for the set-up I mentioned above. Really appreciate your feedback. I'm fairly new to the sport but have been riding alot recently (I've got the bug bad). Thanks again!
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YZEtc

YZEtc



Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyTue Oct 27, 2009 6:38 am

If you're only riding the street for a mile or two between trails, then yeah, I'd lower the gearing more as well.
The WR-250R rolls off the showroom with moon gearing that's there to let the bike pass sound tests, not because it's ideal for off-road riding.

Any major brand chain and sprockets is fine in my book.
My person faves are DID O-ring and X-ring chains and Renthal or Sunstar sprockets.
With Sunstar, you have the option of either steel or hardened aluminum on the rear.

My WR-250R has 12/45 right now, and it's still taller than I'd have it if I never or hardly rode it on the street.
I can still cruise at 60mph easily.
I'm about to try 12/48 this weekend and trade some of the street cruising mph for trail peppiness and tighter ratios.
Should be better while enjoying all of those lovely rocks out on the NETRA Pachaup loop. :)
I'm guessing I'll be cutting the new chain to 110 links (I think stock is 108 links).
I'll let you know when it's on the bike. :)
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BPG

BPG



Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyTue Oct 27, 2009 5:28 pm

Just to add a data point to the thread - w/ 12/47 gearing (112 link chain) I was able to get up to 85 mph (GPS indicated) at a full tuck on the interstate. Sitting normally, it'd pull about 82-83, down to 80 or less uphill.

LOVE the 12/47 in tight/steep stuff, it really transforms the bike - for peanuts! Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 61865

Stock gearing (13/43) has a ratio of 1:3.31

12/43 has a ratio of 1:3.58 (a real nice set-up for highway and trails)

My current 12/47 has a ratio of 1:3.92 - perfect for insane rock crawling and other gnarly trail work, but admittedly a little low-geared for interstate.

I'll likely run the 13T front (13/47 = 1:3.62 --> pretty close to the 12/43 ratio), and put the 12T on for days of mostly trails.
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YZEtc

YZEtc



Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyWed Oct 28, 2009 10:17 pm

The 48-tooth sprocket and new, longer chain are raring to go.
I shortened the new chain to 110 links.
Perfect for 12/48 sprockets.
Sprocket is a steel Sunstar, and the chain is a DID 520V O-ring with the optional rivet master link.

Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Wr-250rx102809002

Ain't she purdy? :)

Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Wr-250rx102809003
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ramz





Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyThu Oct 29, 2009 1:40 am

.
I like the gold look; Stealth Tri-Metal 47T sprocket and DID VT Narrow X-Ring Chain cut to 110 links with a rivet master link:

Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 S090830c
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YZEtc

YZEtc



Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyThu Oct 29, 2009 7:21 pm

shawngrodz wrote:
Thanks for the input. Ya, let me know how you like the 12/48 in the woods and how it may compare to running the 12/45. I was thinking of going from my 43 to a 45, just to see if I notice the change but based on your comments I may just go all the way up to the 47 or 48. Good luck can't wait to hear about your experience with the 48.

I rode the bike to work today and got in a bit of trail riding at dusk.
Here's how the 12/48 sprockets felt to me:

If you're doing more off-road riding than Interstate or major route cruising, this is definately the way to go.
I thought going from the stock 13/43 to 12/45 was a good thing, but this 12/48 gearing just brought the performance of the bike up another step.
Muuuuuuuuch better for off-road use with the tighter ratios giving greater acceleration and better gear spacing.
You can lug it way down low in 2nd or 3rd while negotiating slow sections, then open the gas and the bike pulls it's way up into the meat of the power much easier.
Getting the front wheel off the ground to clear obstacles is much easier.
Basically, it feels a lot more like a dirt bike with the added snap, and a side benefit of this newfound peppiness is that the bike feels lighter because it responds better when you open the throttle.
You got to like it. Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 61865

The amazing thing is, the gearing can still allow easy 50-55mph cruising on the street.
In fact, if the bike came geared this way off the showroom floor, I'd probably think the streetability was just fine.
This just goes to show how incredibly tall the stock 13/43 gearing really is.

Just remember to reprogram your speedometer recalibrator if you use one. :)
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YZEtc

YZEtc



Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Chains and Sprockets   Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 EmptyThu Oct 29, 2009 8:15 pm

A 110/100-18 tire is something you get on a bigger bike, like a WR-450F.
It will fit, but I feel it's a fatter, taller, and heavier tire than needed.

I use Brigdestone M22/M23 hard terrain tires, and the rear I run is 100/100-18 (which is an equivalent to the stock 120/80-18).
Feels perfect for the WR-250R. Chains and Sprockets - Page 3 61865
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Chains and Sprockets
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