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 Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad

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Flbassgod

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PostSubject: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:24 pm

Riding home from work today I got on the throttle and I guess its my chain felt like it was skipping real bad. Then it got progressively worst over my 30 mile ride home to the point if I went over half throttle it would skip real bad in the first 3 even 4 gears. Its an 08 with 5k miles on it.

Heres a picture of my chain tension.
Also, notice how clean the very top of my links are from rubbing the chain sliders. Is this normal?

Thanks.

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Flbassgod

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PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:37 pm

I've been doing alot of searching and I just dont understand... That looks like the right amount of slack to me, and I cant believe it could be off enough to cause this much hopping and skipping and stuff... Its like hitting rev limiter at half throttle lol.

Could it be something else? This is really annoying. Why would Yamaha make such a great machine with a flaw like this?
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Arkmage




PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:08 pm

I had to replace my stock chain at 6K miles... still looked fine.

The stock rear sprocket is poop and will make the chain skip.

The shiney is also likely not from your slider but from cutting into your swingarm pivot.
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Flbassgod

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PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:49 pm

Why would it be doing that? That chain doesnt look too loose or too tight...
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Arkmage




PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:51 pm

take a look at the underside of your swing arm pivot...
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motokid
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PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:04 pm

Look at your countershaft sprocket?
How hard are you pushing on chain in your pictures?
Are you checking with bike on side stand?


_________________
2008 WR250X
Gearing: 13t - 48t
Power Commander 5 / PC-V
Airbox Door Removed - Flapper glued - AIS removed
FmF Q4
Bridgestone Battlax BT-003rs
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Flbassgod

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PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:35 pm

Ok so I went out and took a bunch of pictures so maybe someone can help me diagnose this. I dont fully understand everything thats going on with this thing... And I know its crazy dirty...


Ok so here's a pic of the swingarm behind the front sprocket (I cleaned it the best I could for tonight)



Heres another picture of the swingarm (I noticed the small scratch in the paint thought I should take a picture...



This is of the bottom chain slider



Top chain slider



Rear chain guide



And heres the front sprocket (It really shows what I mean by the inside of the chain being worn and shiny)






Last edited by Flbassgod on Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Flbassgod

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PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:39 pm

Oh and motokid, This may sound ignorant but whats a counter-shaft sprocket? And yes the bike is on side stand. And I'm not pushing too hard but the chain wont go up much more then its showing
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pbnut

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PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:21 am

The shiney worn area is normal. Mine looked the same way, as does the new chain. It's from rubbing the top side of the slider near as I can tell. Your slider appears to be in good shape too, so the chain is not cutting into the swingarm as someone else mentioned.

Tension looks a tad bit on the loose side to me. Are you using the original spec or the revised spec for tension? There was an update for the chain adjustment at some point.

Countershaft sprocket is the one attached to the engine. Yours appears to be worn some. Could also be the angle of the picture. Hard to tell.

Tightening up the chain might work for a while, but I would go ahead and get a new set of sprockets and a chain on order.
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gatorfan

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PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:13 am

Take it all apart, clean and lube, try it again.

This has got to be step one as it will allow you to examine everything better.

Here's the updated chain tension guide >> Guide
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alansz400




PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:13 am

Heres is what my stock sprocket looked like with 7000 miles and NO slipping. I think your clutch is slipping. Check the free play in your clutch cable.
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TwilightZone




PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:35 pm

If it is a 2008 bike with the rubber-covered sprockets... replace them, it's bad engineering.
IMHO: Yamaha 'noise engineering' staff got a little carried away.

Might as well replace chain, contershaft sprocked and rear sprocket.
Many users go with 13/47 or 13/48. Get 112 links on the chain.
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skierd




PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:43 pm

He has an x, so the standard rgearing recommendations will probably be too steep if he likes the stock 13/42 ratio. If its still running the stock 08 rubber ringed sprocket, try running the tension a little tighter until you are ready to replace the chain. Also fwiw my stock chain and sprockets were shot at 6kthe miles so you're due...
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mordicai




PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:58 pm

At what point on the chain are you pushing up towards the swingarm? Looks like you are pushing too far rearward from the pic, but it's hard to tell. It does sound like a clutch issue.
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Flbassgod

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PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:21 pm

So today I cleaned my chain and lubed it. Then I tightened it about a quarter inch and absolutely 0 problems after about 60 miles of riding... I find it extremely hard to believe that a quarter inch of slack would cause the chain to skip but I guess it does...

Also, my bike sat out in the rain all day while I was at work earlier that day. Maybe water was somehow causing it?

I also checked the clutch cable and it seems to be normal has a small amount of play but not much. I hope its not the clutch... After messing with my chain and problem solved I can only figure it was a chain issue. Hopefully it wont come back.
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IAmABug




PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:30 pm

My understanding is this bike is very picky about chain tension. I ride with guys on full out dirt bikes and their chains are loose in comparison to how I ride mine. 1/4" slack dos make my bike feel like it's skipping although it's not. That mileage though, new drive train. Especially if it was hard miles.
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Flbassgod

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PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:43 pm

IAmABug wrote:
My understanding is this bike is very picky about chain tension. I ride with guys on full out dirt bikes and their chains are loose in comparison to how I ride mine. 1/4" slack dos make my bike feel like it's skipping although it's not. That mileage though, new drive train. Especially if it was hard miles.

Ok thats all I really wanted to know. I still cant believe that a quarter inch of additional slack would cause it to act like that but I guess it does... good to know now lol. I have my chain set at around 1/4" slack from the swingarm pushing up at center.

I still have about half of the notches on my chain tighteners left so I'll probably try to just keep it tight and see if I can hold of until March for a new chain and sprockets (then I can get 40% off)

Thanks everyone for your input
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Bikeman




PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:06 pm

Earlier poster is correct. The silly noise reducing black plastic or rubber on the stock 2008 bikes can cause slippage if chain tension is even a bit too low. Aftermarket or later year sprockets don' seem to have this issue.
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Flbassgod

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PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:30 pm

Bikeman wrote:
Earlier poster is correct. The silly noise reducing black plastic or rubber on the stock 2008 bikes can cause slippage if chain tension is even a bit too low. Aftermarket or later year sprockets don' seem to have this issue.

Thats such bs... I mean it was hardley loose. I've ran chains MUCH looser then that and never even came close to slipping nevertheless as bad as that thing... Crazy they would build such a great bike and screw up something like this chain sprocket swing arm deal...

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skierd




PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:10 pm

Its the rubber ring on the sprocket that causes the slip. Aftermarket sprocket are fine.
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MeefZah

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PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:54 am

I'm quite certain it's the OEM sprockets causing the issue. I had similar issues with my first '08, and in fact Yamaha put out a service bulletin about chain tension as a result of a lot of people having the same problems. I'm really surprised no one else here has mentioned that.

The short term solution is, as you found, to tension the chain more than is "normal" for a dirt bike. That's Yamaha's "official" suggestion.

The permanent solution is to replace the sprockets. If you replace the chain and sprockets, don't use OEM Yamaha rubber cushioned sprockets, as they don't let the chain seat completely, which causes the skipping.

With 5,000 miles, the chain and sprockets still have some life left in them, but I'd go ahead and replace them with decent aftermarket stuff and just be done with it.

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TwilightZone




PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:41 pm

>"don't use OEM Yamaha rubber cushioned sprockets"

Are they even available anymore? Yamaha changed the design on 2009+ bikes.
At any rate, I have 1,500 mile primary sprocket, secondary and chain in my 'took off the yamaha' parts box.
Let me know if you want them... but it will probably cost more to ship them than they're worth.

If you're an X, I'd go 14x45 tooth then. The 14 tooth will provide better wear on the street.
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motokid
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PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:00 pm

TwilightZone wrote:


If you're an X, I'd go 14x45 tooth then. The 14 tooth will provide better wear on the street.

From a sport riding perspective - that gearing would be way boring. As is the stock 13/42. Sleep Sleep Sleep

Just sayin.....

Chain "skipping" has nothing to do with number of teeth.
Chain wear on swingarm has nothing to do with number of teeth.

(within reason)





_________________
2008 WR250X
Gearing: 13t - 48t
Power Commander 5 / PC-V
Airbox Door Removed - Flapper glued - AIS removed
FmF Q4
Bridgestone Battlax BT-003rs
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Flbassgod

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PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:15 pm

motokid wrote:
TwilightZone wrote:


If you're an X, I'd go 14x45 tooth then. The 14 tooth will provide better wear on the street.

From a sport riding perspective - that gearing would be way boring. As is the stock 13/42. Sleep Sleep Sleep

Just sayin.....

Chain "skipping" has nothing to do with number of teeth.
Chain wear on swingarm has nothing to do with number of teeth.

(within reason)


Ya I've already determined I'm getting a new chain and sprockets... I just have to wait until March so I can get them at Daytona Supercross for super cheap. And as far as gearing goes, stock has been super fun, but the more miles I put on it the more I think I would like to go down one in the front. Just cant seem to get second gear wheelies the way I want lol (and that cant be rider error, must be a gearing issue haha)
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telet




PostSubject: Re: Chain skipping bad... But doesnt look bad   Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:52 pm

Flbassgod wrote:
So today I cleaned my chain and lubed it. Then I tightened it about a quarter inch and absolutely 0 problems after about 60 miles of riding... I find it extremely hard to believe that a quarter inch of slack would cause the chain to skip but I guess it does...
i had a same problem after only 1000km :) first thing i have done was tighten the chain for a 5-7mm. since then no problem :) 4000km and counting :)
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