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 Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)

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Frank250X




PostSubject: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:02 pm

Well... this had to happen! While putting back the oil filter cover on my 2009 Wr250x, one of the bolts would not torque. I shouldn't have use a torque-wrench for this. Thread in the case is now very bad keeping the bolt loose. What do you suggest ? Should I take the bike to the dealer ?

Have you tried helicoil inserts ? Can't ride the bike and I feel like a dumbass now

Give me advices! thanks
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papi4baby

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PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:50 am

If you used a torque wrench and follow the correct procedure i would call Yamaha and ask if they will cover it (i doubt it).
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motokid
Moderator
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PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:23 am

papi4baby wrote:
If you used a torque wrench and follow the correct procedure i would call Yamaha and ask if they will cover it (i doubt it).

Not a snowball's chance in hell.....

_________________
2008 WR250X
Gearing: 13t - 48t
Power Commander 5 / PC-V
Airbox Door Removed - Flapper glued - AIS removed
FmF Q4
Bridgestone Battlax BT-003rs
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BuilderBob

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PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:49 am

Frank250X wrote:
What do you suggest ? Should I take the bike to the dealer ?

Have you tried helicoil inserts ?

Helicoil would work, but so would drilling and tapping the hole to the next larger bolt size. Seems there's plenty of room for that.

Get yourself a torque wrench! Cheap at Harbor Freight. We don't want to read about an eventual stripped oil drain or spark plug hole!
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Frank250X




PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:39 pm

BuilderBob wrote:
Frank250X wrote:
What do you suggest ? Should I take the bike to the dealer ?

Have you tried helicoil inserts ?

Helicoil would work, but so would drilling and tapping the hole to the next larger bolt size. Seems there's plenty of room for that.

Get yourself a torque wrench! Cheap at Harbor Freight. We don't want to read about an eventual stripped oil drain or spark plug hole!

I used a torque wrench for this but next time I'll use a small ratchet with little torque (screw by hand then 1/8 rotation with ratchet)

I'll drill and tap the existing hole. I'm more worried about the filing going into the engine...
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BuilderBob

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PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:03 pm

Frank250X wrote:
I used a torque wrench for this but next time I'll use a small ratchet with little torque (screw by hand then 1/8 rotation with ratchet)

I'll drill and tap the existing hole. I'm more worried about the filing going into the engine...

Inch pounds vs foot pounds perhaps?

If you drill with the cover on (you'll have to drill the cover too) no filings will make it into the engine. I'd make a depth gauge out of something thin enough to probe the the depth of the hole, mark it, and then transfer the mark onto your drill bit to make sure that you don't drill to deep.
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Frank250X




PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:13 pm

BuilderBob wrote:
Frank250X wrote:
I used a torque wrench for this but next time I'll use a small ratchet with little torque (screw by hand then 1/8 rotation with ratchet)

I'll drill and tap the existing hole. I'm more worried about the filing going into the engine...

Inch pounds vs foot pounds perhaps?

If you drill with the cover on (you'll have to drill the cover too) no filings will make it into the engine. I'd make a depth gauge out of something thin enough to probe the the depth of the hole, mark it, and then transfer the mark onto your drill bit to make sure that you don't drill to deep.

The torque was set to 7.2 ft/lbf
I'll be doing this carefully. I'm new on this forum and this place seems very nice for information and tips! Thanks a lot

Here's the thread with pictures of my new bike : http://wr250rforum.forumotion.com/t7387-frank250x-s-2009-supermoto-in-quebec-canada#66907
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TBird1

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PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:17 pm

For a low torque value like 7.2 ft/lbs you need a high-quality torque wrench that is properly calibrated. This is what I use. I also have others for larger fasteners. In general, I try to use a torque wrench where the needed value is somewhere in the middle of the wrench's range. In aluminum, I use a torque value just a little under the stated spec. This approach has never let me down. One last thing: stated torque values are predicated on CLEAN, DRY threads. No grease, "Never-Sieze", oil, etc. Any lube on the threads will have the effect of letting you OVER-TORQUE the fastener!
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Gany




PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:26 am

I recently used timesert inserts. Very easy to use and work the tools by hand so it would be harder to drill too deep etc. Bit pricey but im confident now of fixing a stripped thread and got the tools for life.
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Adaycj




PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:17 pm

A clicker type torque wrench is not a good choice for this application. A simple inexpensive beam type will work fine. They almost never go out of calibration, and there are no clicks to miss. There are a few operational details you must know. Mine is from the '60's and has never gone out of calibratiion, and it workes fine,

Any critical M8 or M6 fasteners treaded into aluminum should be tightened with a torque wrench. I'm like most others and don't always do it, but on occasion I have the same thing happen to me. a time
ert is a better fix, but harder to come by.
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motokid
Moderator
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PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:30 pm

As many here have noted....the bolts Yamaha supplied for the oil cover are soft soft SOFT.

Torquing the heads off the bolts is easy-peasy.

I'm surprised the case threads gave way before the bolt did.

At any rate, many people here refrain from using a torque wrench on these bolts.

Simple procedure really:

1. finger tighten all three bolts
2. apply wrench and gently snug all three
3. give wrench about an 1/8th of a turn more on all three bolts

done

Start engine and inspect for leaks.

There will always be some initial dripping of oil that looks like a leak when you first do filter change.
Do not be fooled into thinking this means your cover bolts are not tight enough.

This is were I got into trouble once.

Wipe away drip. Repeat procedure a few times.

Typically, that's all it takes. After a few drips of oil are wiped away things are good-to-go.

I'll be damned if I'm buying a uber-expensive torque wrench for 3 oil cover bolts.

Finger tight. Light wrench. Tiny bit more wrench. Done.




_________________
2008 WR250X
Gearing: 13t - 48t
Power Commander 5 / PC-V
Airbox Door Removed - Flapper glued - AIS removed
FmF Q4
Bridgestone Battlax BT-003rs
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BuilderBob

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PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:31 pm

motokid wrote:
I'll be damned if I'm buying a uber-expensive torque wrench for 3 oil cover bolts.



$20 too much? Sometimes they're actually on sale for $10! Click here.



I have 3 torque wrenches, one of each drive size, two in foot pounds and one in inch pounds. Never regretted buying any of them, and they are essential for any significant engine work.
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Adaycj




PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:06 pm

The HF one shown is junk. It does not click sometimes which leads to the same problems as the OP. Several of my students have bought them. I used a calibration verification station, and they were out of spec (including out of tolerances) right from the HF store, Proper calibration at the airport near me costs more than the tool.

If budget is a concern my school owns 16 of these.


http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-Classic-Needle-Style-8-Inch-2-Inch/dp/B0019VMI0Y/ref=pd_sbs_sg_4

They are cheap, but they are in calibration according to tolerances from the factory when shipped. Used properly for under 10 ft/lbs they beat anything but a dial type. We use them for assembling engiines with aluminum parts.
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BuilderBob

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PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:28 pm

Adaycj wrote:
The HF one shown is junk. It does not click sometimes which leads to the same problems as the OP. Several of my students have bought them. I used a calibration verification station, and they were out of spec (including out of tolerances) right from the HF store, Proper calibration at the airport near me costs more than the tool.

If budget is a concern my school owns 16 of these.


http://www.amazon.com/Neiko-Classic-Needle-Style-8-Inch-2-Inch/dp/B0019VMI0Y/ref=pd_sbs_sg_4

They are cheap, but they are in calibration according to tolerances from the factory when shipped. Used properly for under 10 ft/lbs they beat anything but a dial type. We use them for assembling engiines with aluminum parts.

Either way, torque wrenches are not financially out of reach for WR owners, which was my point.
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motokid
Moderator
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PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:36 pm

My point is this, there's no reason (from my perspective) to NEED a torque wrench for 3 simple oil cover bolts.

In many cases - the torque wrench is not your friend....as we've seen numerous times here.

Very happy


lurk

_________________
2008 WR250X
Gearing: 13t - 48t
Power Commander 5 / PC-V
Airbox Door Removed - Flapper glued - AIS removed
FmF Q4
Bridgestone Battlax BT-003rs
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YZEtc

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PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:26 pm

motokid wrote:
My point is this, there's no reason (from my perspective) to NEED a torque wrench for 3 simple oil cover bolts.

I agree, as I found this out as a teenager when I first got into motorcycles.

7 ft/lbs is easily reached with a 1/4" drive ratchet and your wrist.
Get the hang of doing it that way, and you'll wonder why you even bother with a torque wrench for an oil change.
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BuilderBob

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PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:39 pm

motokid wrote:
My point is this, there's no reason (from my perspective) to NEED a torque wrench for 3 simple oil cover bolts.

In many cases - the torque wrench is not your friend....as we've seen numerous times here.

Very happy


lurk

YZEtc wrote:
motokid wrote:
My point is this, there's no reason (from my perspective) to NEED a torque wrench for 3 simple oil cover bolts.

I agree, as I found this out as a teenager when I first got into motorcycles.

7 ft/lbs is easily reached with a 1/4" drive ratchet and your wrist.
Get the hang of doing it that way, and you'll wonder why you even bother with a torque wrench for an oil change.
I'll have to disagree with both of you. For the uninitiated, having a torque wrench is exactly what is needed to avoid the the mishaps that we have seen on this forum and on many others. Personally, I've never stripped the threads of a casing on any bike that I have ever owned, but the evidence of it happening to others quite often is clear. Why would you discourage the use of a tool that can reduce the risk?

Full disclosure, I've been wrenching for many years, and have the "feel" for lightly torqued bolts, so I'm not constantly running to the toolbox for my torque wrench for the small stuff, but I wouldn't discourage the use of them either.
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YZEtc

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PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:04 pm

Why?
Look at what happened.
Why not use that torque wrench on the 6mm bolts that fasten the seat down, too?
Or the bolts that hold the plastic side panels on?
Why just use it on the oil filter cover?
The guy would have every tiny fastener on the bike stripped-out.
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BuilderBob

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PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:31 pm

YZEtc wrote:
Why?
Look at what happened.
Why not use that torque wrench on the 6mm bolts that fasten the seat down, too?
Or the bolts that hold the plastic side panels on?
Why just use it on the oil filter cover?
The guy would have every tiny fastener on the bike stripped-out.

Come on. Don't be ridiculous. We don't even know how it happened. We weren't there. It's possible that the PO over-torqued the fasteners and started the process on it's way. It's possible that the torque wrench was improperly set. It's possible that... blah, blah, blah

You're a seasoned motorcyclist, not everyone is. You can do a lot by feel. Me too. I still won't discourage the use of proper tools.
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Adaycj




PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:34 pm

Exactly. Lots of "just learn to do it while wrecking a few things advice". Sure, I just did an oil change a few weeks back with only a ratchet. But the steel bolts are not soft, the treads are not defective, and no one's arms are calibrated torque devices.

For some, a stripped drain plug, or an engine bolt is a BIG deal. A spark plug could be even more tramuatic. It can be avoided using the proper tool. The logical path of the conversation was to turn to the proper way to avoid the problem.

My students are like this sometimes. I tell them they MUST use a torque wrench to physically turn every lug nut to the proper twisting force (clickers in that case). Then I get to hear every story in the world about years of practice, impacts with amazing force, and soft studs, and nuts made of cheese.

So I get it, you don't NEED a torque wrench. Its obvious, there are lots of us that get along fine wihtout one sometimes; me included. But the OP already striped out a critical engine bolt hole.
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motokid
Moderator
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PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:38 pm

Adaycj wrote:

But the OP already striped out a critical engine bolt hole.

and the OP was................... using a torque wrench.... wink

_________________
2008 WR250X
Gearing: 13t - 48t
Power Commander 5 / PC-V
Airbox Door Removed - Flapper glued - AIS removed
FmF Q4
Bridgestone Battlax BT-003rs
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BuilderBob

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PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:55 pm

There is no global warming! woohoo
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Fuzzy Wrench

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PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:39 pm

Frank250x, I've had good luck with helicoil, you can also drill oversize and tap...use grease on your drill bit and tap to keep all the shavings in one spot, easier to clean...hopefully it's not the stepped bolt....
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Frank250X




PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:35 am

Fuzzy Wrench wrote:
Frank250x, I've had good luck with helicoil, you can also drill oversize and tap...use grease on your drill bit and tap to keep all the shavings in one spot, easier to clean...hopefully it's not the stepped bolt....

I fixed it with helicoil and it's working great!
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BuilderBob

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PostSubject: Re: Help with stripped thread (oil filter cover)   Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:09 am

Frank250X wrote:
I fixed it with helicoil and it's working great!
Congrats! thumb
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