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 Suspension upgrade advice

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chuckP




PostSubject: Suspension upgrade advice   Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:58 pm

I'm 210lbs with gear on and these spring rates just arent cutting it. I've been adding fork oil and running an increased preload out back to compensate for some time now. It's an X and gets used for track days and the occasional spirited backroad cruise. I'm wondering if it's worthwhile to at least get F&R springs and leave the valving alone. I know the valving is crap, but to be honest, I'm not quite sure I want to invest that kind of money into this bike. Opinions on just getting springs? Best place to order from?
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Zugman




PostSubject: Re: Suspension upgrade advice   Tue Jun 04, 2013 11:20 am

I was really hoping that someone would know the answer to this as I am in exactly the same position. I feel that the suspension is way to soft for a track day. We have a class to race in here that is strictly pavement and I would need to at the very least change the springs. I checked RaceTech but they don't really have what I need.

Anyone got any suggestions???
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DSA Allen




PostSubject: Re: Suspension upgrade advice   Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:56 pm

We can help you with springs
can get fork springs .36kg to .52kg
shock springs we have made to order 7.0kg to 10.0kg

give us a call or shoot us a PM with what you need

www.Dualsportarmory.com

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pbnut




PostSubject: Re: Suspension upgrade advice   Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:15 pm

I think it would be unwise to replace with stiffer springs and leave the valving untouched.

Ideally you want to the valving settings to be somewhere in the middle of their range. With the added force of a heavier spring the rebound valving is going to need some adjustment to compensate. Maybe it's within the stock range of adjustment. Maybe it's not. The choice is yours though. Being that you already know the stock valving is crap do you really want to pass up the opportunity to make it worth a damn?

Another company that's gotten good reviews around here and elsewhere is GoRace. Check them out here: http://go-race.com/wordpress/?page_id=291

Someday in the future I plan to have my forks gone over by them, and by shock brought up to match. It's currently revalved by another party.
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Biglake




PostSubject: Re: Suspension upgrade advice   Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:14 pm

At 210 your just a touch heavy for stock springs, they'll be fine if you arent a super aggersive rider.

Get a revalve first and springs later if its still too soft.

The stock valving is really really bad! Fix it first, I doubt you need springs.

Edit to add...
I got my rear spring from race tech, its a 9.4 and boardline too stiff for me tho, they have fork springs too but I stuck with the stockers, they're fine and im 240 lbs.
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chuckP




PostSubject: Re: Suspension upgrade advice   Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:37 pm

Biglake wrote:
At 210 your just a touch heavy for stock springs, they'll be fine if you arent a super aggersive rider.

Get a revalve first and springs later if its still too soft.

The stock valving is really really bad! Fix it first, I doubt you need springs.

Edit to add...
I got my rear spring from race tech, its a 9.4 and boardline too stiff for me tho, they have fork springs too but I stuck with the stockers, they're fine and im 240 lbs.

Thanks for the advice. What do you do with the bike? Under hard braking my front end dives good. You havn't touched your forks? I'm puzzled. Different preferences i suppose.
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Biglake




PostSubject: Re: Suspension upgrade advice   Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:57 pm

I race my bike offroad and use it as a dual sport, its the R model.

My forks are far from stock.

I set the bike up much stiffer than stock, I put my self in race techs valving caculator/setup chart that you fill out with the gold valve kit as a fast intermediate, but im not that fast lol.

I have race tech gold valve kits front and rear, I just didnt bother to change the fork springs... it has .47s stock and race tech reccomended .50s so its not far off, plus I can add them later if I want to, but dont plan on it as the forks work great.
I have a stiffer 9.4 rear spring as well as the gold valve kit in the shock, its a little stiff and the spring has next to no preload on it, I might go back to the stock spring.

The valving is the problem not the springs, the bike has much stiffer springs than most bikes have stock, the springs are good for a 170-200lb guy, but the valving is very light making the bike feel soft.

Edited to add

Im 240 lbs and running stock springs front and rear they're plenty stiff.

I put the stock shock spring back on, its stiff enough and works better than the 9.4, I was at a mx track today doing some small jumps and only bottomed the forks a couple of times while landing a little front heavy, I never bottomed the shock at all, I was also on a woods loop a bit and the stock spring was spot on there and much nicer riding than the 9.4.


Last edited by Biglake on Sun Jun 09, 2013 4:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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chuckP




PostSubject: Re: Suspension upgrade advice   Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:46 pm

Biglake wrote:
I race my bike offroad and use it as a dual sport, its the R model.

My forks are far from stock.

I set the bike up much stiffer than stock, I put my self in race techs valving caculator/setup chart that you fill out with the gold valve kit as a fast intermediate, but im not that fast lol.

I have race tech gold valve kits front and rear, I just didnt bother to change the fork springs... it has .47s stock and race tech reccomended .50s so its not far off, plus I can add them later if I want to, but dont plan on it as the forks work great.
I have a stiffer 9.4 rear spring as well as the gold valve kit in the shock, its a little stiff and the spring has next to no preload on it, I might go back to the stock spring.

The valving is the problem not the springs, the bike has much stiffer springs than most bikes have stock, the springs are good for a 170-200lb guy, but the valving is very light making the bike feel soft.

Good to know. did you do the work yourself?
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Biglake




PostSubject: Re: Suspension upgrade advice   Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:02 pm

No I race with a guy that does suspension work as a hobby on the side and paid him to do it.

Next time I can do it myself tho, he showed me how everything comes apart and goes back together while he did it.

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hamish54




PostSubject: suspension upgrade   Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:45 pm

Ditto on GoRace. Travis reworked my suspension on my "R". Night & day difference for on road and enduros offroad. Best upgrade I've done to my $8,000 WRR..... lol..

Bill T.
WRR - fully modded....
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raymondhenson




PostSubject: Re: Suspension upgrade advice   Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:47 am

Just wanted to add my thoughts.  Also, I am "far" from a suspension expert although it is something I am very interested at.  My preferences are trials-based and I also did a little amateur motocross.

My bike came from Ramz, with the rear shock set up with GO-RACE valving but using stock springs.  When I first rode it hard on trail, I was amazed at how the rear performed. I also found out (quickly) that the weak link was the front forks.  I contacted Travis, told him what I wanted, what I would normally carry, and where I normally ride. He quickly built me a new set of forks, re-valved and with .47kg springs.  I can push close to 210 with all the gear and the suspension is where I want it to be, supple and behaved (controlled in its travel up and down).

Every now and then, I do the HF check.  Pushing down at a point midway between the tank and the seat, I check for evenness moving down and up/returning to normal.  At no gear, they are (in my eyes) supple and even, front and rear moving down and up together.  With gear, there is bias toward the rear on the down push ... which I prefer ... but the up (return) is still even.  

Yes, if I use the front brake hard, I have a dive.  But it is more of a controlled dive rather than a "collapsed" dive and there is no skipping/hopping on the rear.  If I use both brakes hard or just the rear brake hard, the dive is minimal to me.  The best part is the return travel ... quite controlled and not jerky like before.

+1 on Travis and the GO-RACE treatment.

My Sag is at 3.5".  I'd gladly share settings but they're based on personal preference which may not work for you.

Best .... Raymond
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kawagumby




PostSubject: Re: Suspension upgrade advice   Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:58 pm

Hi all,
My 08 WR250R suspension was pretty lame off-road, so I had Go-race redo the rear shock. I do a lot of fork tuning, so I first tried oil type and oil height setting changes to get better fork action, but under heavy use the forks just didn't get it done.  

In my opinion, there is no way the forks on the WR250R can be revalved to meet the expectations of advanced riders..why? Because the valve stack that handles compression flow is too small... about the diameter of a quarter.
The stack itself is very rudimentary and low-cost. (Gold valves can only go so far...and they'd have to be too small also to fit) So, rather than spend any more time on the original forks, I bought a pair of 03 WR450F forks (like new) for about $200 on ebay and a front YZ wheel, axle and spacers (another $100) and bolted them up. The only mod needed is a home-made bracket to mount the brake line as the fork protectors on the older WR450's are different than those on the WRR.  You also need to resize the YZ/WRF axle spacers to fit (to center the brake rotor in the caliper).  Some persons may want to install minimal bar risers to allow the longer forks to clear the bars...but I ran the forks just up to the bars and the off-road turning was still good without the front end pushing.  I eventually installed riser that were about 1/2 inch in height to make it easier to adjust the rebound damping.

The R model has a smaller axle than the WRF's and YZ's and thus the need for a YZ or WRF front wheel axle spacers and axle.  The X model has the larger axle so that front wheel may work.

The difference is night and day.  The bike handles much better, you can rely on the front suspension in rough turns - big hits are laughed at,  and small trail stuff is virtually unnoticed.

On the street, the irritating mid-stroke spike when going over potholes and such is gone and the bike generally handles better there also.

The 03 WR250 forks come stock with 46 springs and work perfect for my 165lbs worth of agressive off-road riding.  The damping compliments the spring rate giving a very smooth and predictable flow of travel, and actually feels stiffer, but more progressive than stock.  I believe the 04 WRF forks are also 46mm diameter so they too will work.  I'd stay away from the YZ units unless you don't have a problem with the MX style damping or don't mind a revalve.

Now the Go-Race rear shock is again the weak link...LOL.... but it gets the job done for most situations.

Anyhow, something to think about if you're looking for more performance up front.
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Biglake




PostSubject: Re: Suspension upgrade advice   Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:50 am

I dont find the stock forks with gold valves harsh or bad at all.

Im 240 tho and being heavy gets rid of harshness lol.

Did you ever try a set with gold valves and thinish oil?

Also the stock fork seals have a ton of stickion, more than other kybs for some reason, skf seals make the forks plusher and smoother, I need to get a set, I plan on adding them this winter.

The only reason I'd consider swapping forks is to get the extra inch of travel wr/yz forks have, that would make more difference than the size of the valves imo.

I doubt I will ever do that tho, at my weight I need to revalve/respring every bike, if I put stock wr forks on my bike it would be worse for me untill I resprung them lol.
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flatironrider




PostSubject: Re: Suspension upgrade advice   Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:30 pm

I bought a 13 WR250R, and I was way to heavy for the rear stock spring. I weigh over 250. Yesterday I went and got a rear stock spring installed that is rated at 650lbs. The stock WR is rated at 456. With all my gear and adventure riding gear I will weigh over 350lbs, so I needed a better rear spring. The one I got came out of a big victory road bike, and it totally did the trick. I went out and did some rough riding on single track for a little while, and the traction was way better and the spring did not feel like a rubber band. The bike has virtually no sag when I sit on it now, and I don't have to have the rear shock cranked all the way down. It is somewhere in the middle now, which is fine for this new spring. I have never had an issue with the front forks/spring whatsoever. Maybe it is just how I ride/sit on the bike.
The guy who did the work charged me $50 for the used spring and an hour labor also. It took him a couple hours to do the job though. He also added nitrogen to the shock. It was low even though it is practically a brand new bike. Ok, don't know if it was low, he said he added some (no charge) so I assume it was. Anyway, it made all the difference once it was done. Can't wait to put on the luggage and the 4.7 gallon gas tank and go adventure riding!
So for me all was needed was the rear spring upgrade, no new shocks at all. I hope this info helps somebody who is heavy and can't stand the stock spring.
Doug
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