Flame Out?

My WRR is starting to act up. It seems if I leave it idling, to check a map or argue over which way to turn, when I blip the throttle to pull away, the bike stalls. Then it takes a longer crank to get it fired back up.

Any ideas?

ac

Hey mate what year model & how many miles ?

GT-250 wrote:

Hey mate what year model & how many miles ?

2008 WR250R ~5k miles

FMF Programmer
FMF Q4
Opened air box lid

ac

Ok, older year model, but with pretty low ODO. I see you have it listed with the FMF F/P. Have you adjusted the settings on the programmer in recent times ? Also what fuel grade are you running ?

Always 93 octane. I've tried a bunch of settings on the fmf. Any suggestions for what settings to run?

The reason i ask about any recent changes to your settings is not that the settings alone will cause any immediate problems, but more so that it seems many owners adjust the programmer to give mucher richer fuel "ratios" than really needed. So depending on how rich you have adjusted the settings, over a given time the spark plug can become fouled, which can then overload it's operating function & cause it to produce a weak spark. ( This could initially start to show as a problem after an extended period of idle or low rev's. Could also be more pronounced from cold start etc ).

On this Hi-Performance & Hi-reving single cylinder engine, any slight decrease in the operating performance of the spark plug, and therefore it's firing voltage, will show as similar symptons to your bike.

I would strongly suggest to start with a new spark plug in your case, regardless of how "good" it might appear upon removal & inspection. I would not be surprised at all if this solves your current condition.

I have been running the up-graded Iridium spark plug with very good results for approx 8,000klm's. It is a "needle tip" plug, and seems to cope much better with richer settings from the FMF F/P. Obviously being the Iridium material it lasts alot longer than the standard plug, although it is "only" a single electrode for the earth. Anyway this plug is the direct NGK listed replacement for up-grade on the stock NGK plug. The NGK part number for the Iridium plug is CR9EIX. From my direct experience of running this plug in my own WRR, and as a Qualified Mechanic, i can 100% vouch for it's advantages.

Anyway, i'd say to start with the new plug and report back if you get the good result. We can then look at exactly what mods you have, your climate & useage etc, and then what base FMF setting to go with.
(Just out of curiosity, what are your current settings anyway ? ).

Lastly, i would assume that your air filter is well serviced & clean etc ?.

Cheers.

That sounds like a good idea. I have another spark plug on hand for it. I've been playing with the FMF a lot trying to find a setting that actually feels good. I'll have to check to see what I have in there.

Air filter was freshly cleaned before this ride.

Any suggestions for the FMF settings when I put the new plug in?

ac

OK, if you still have the FMF install / instruction booklet, then i would go exactly by their proven R&D figures for your level of mods. I believe that there are 2~3 recommended settings depending on mods & bore size. The only exception to their "default" settings is for the known "dead-spot" issue with the 5th number - in which it really needs to be set to a level of 6 or higher. I had this dead-spot issue myself with the factory setting, and since raising that 5th number to 6 it has been all good.

I also spent several weeks mucking around with all sorts of different number settings when i first fitted my FMF F/P. In the end i found that the reccommended settings were definately the best overall.....i ruled out the placebo effect very early on, lol.

Both by "seat of the pants" feel, along with 20+ years professional knowledge & experience, i can tell you that by going too rich can & will actually reduce the overall performance. This is also aside from the fact that you will have increased fuel consumption, along with excessive carbon & soot build up of piston, rings, valves, combustion chambers & the complete exhaust system. Over the medium to long term, this carbon and soot build up will then further add to reduced performance. The shorter term effects may start with reduced spark plug life.

Anyway to go back to the direct answer that you were seeking - unfortunately i don't have my FMF booklet on hand right now - it's in my tool box at work.....But i'm sure that if you or I were to do a quick search on this site, or via google, we would find the answer. Otherwise another member here may be able to give a definate answer on the FMF default & recommended settings.

If i had a guess from memory on the default settings for base level of mods i would say as per below,

3 - 2 - 0.5 - ? - 4 - ?     ( Note - change 5th number up to 6. Also note that the 3rd number when set at 0.5 means no extra fuel is added over the stock rate - this in turn negates any setting for the 6th number. The 3rd number is in the "off" mode as it's aready "rich" enough from stock in the WOT / top end ).

The above is for standard bore size with exhaust & minor air box openings. For the 290 kit the numbers are different & increased, as obviously the bigger capacity requires more fuel. I know my numbers as set at present for my 290 bore & mods, as per below,

5 - 4 - 3 - 1 - 6 - 4    ( Note - i know i have slightly tweeked my reccommended base settings to suit my useage & climate - but apart from the standard change of the 5th number to 6, i think that i may have only changed the 2nd number up very slightly. Anyway i will check and confirm this once i go to work tommorrow and refer to the FMF instruction booklet ).

So as you can see from above, even with the 290 kit that the settings for number 1 & 2 do not go a huge amount richer. Number 3 setting is quite a bit richer, as it's now "switched on" at level 3, which also then triggers the 6th number to come into play. This is expected as it's no surprise that more fuel is now needed on the top end / WOT with the increased bore capacity.

Lastly, if you are able to now also please answer my previous question to you =
What are your current FMF settings at ?   If you can list them, i will be at least able to see if they are excessively high.

Anyway sorry for the longer posts again, but if you would just prefer the short & sweet info with no details / facts then let me know - as i can also do the "mushroom mode" for dummies, lol.....
( Note = not refering directly to you in any way mate = all good ).

Cheers.

Ok, so found this straight up on a quick google search.............

Straight from the horse's mouth,


https://www.google.com.au/url?q=http://fmfpowerprogrammer.com/instructions/9310072_WR250.pdf&sa=U&ei=vLWKU_uKB4mQkwWJ84GgCw&ved=0CD8QFjAF&sig2=dy9GYh-l2qaLYMaZkrgzyQ&usg=AFQjCNGcV92uoOaA_DrcHw-wjvhSNnYurQ


Ok, so as you can see - pages 5 & 6 show all the recommended settings to suit level of mods.



Anyway hope this helps, please report back with your current settings - and also if you rectify your problem.

Cheers, Gavin.

Gavin,

Thanks for the tips.

What do you think FMF meant by "minor airbox mods"? I have the whole top removed. Side door still 100% intact.

They seem to have "Stock w/ exhaust" and then the other 2 are all for the Big Bores.

ac

Ok, as per the above listed link to the actual FMF instructions, we can see that yes there are indeed 3 different recommendations depending on mods. And you are 100% correct that it then only mentions any air box mods with the 290 kit. The mention of "minor air box mods" was obviously only from me & my memory just prior to finding that link as posted of the genuine FMF info. ( I haven't had to look at my FMF copy for about 6 months ).

So all i can add is that in the standard bore size, and with any exhaust or airbox mod, you would certainly start with their base settings. For my thinking with a major airbox mod you might then be able to add a little more fuel at setting number 2, and maybe try turning on number 3 by setting it at level 1.

So from my experience of where i was at prior to, and now at my current 290 settings, i would highly doupt that there are any real performance gains much further above the default level FMF..... In saying this if you did set them slightly higher due to the major air box mods it should not cause any short or long term negative effects in regards to excessive soot / carbon build up. ( So spark plug operation, performance and life should still be ok ). By stating "slightly higher" i would suggest increasing number 2 setting to test run at 2.5 ~ 3. Then maybe try several days with back to back comparisons with the 3rd number "switched on" at a setting of 1.
Just as i also initially tested, you could try a few combo's with the 2nd & 3rd number either working on or off with each other as well.

In theory you would only really be taking full advantage of the opened up air box during the higher engine rev's, as the air induction velocity picks up to draw in the "extra" air thru the bigger opening. ( Just think of it as though you had to breathe only thru a very thin straw - at walking pace you would proberly get by no worries....but now try getting enough air into your lungs whilst running flat out - not likely. Same princible with the air box and air induction ).

So it's one thing to opening up the air box for better breathing at higher RPM, but as for more fuel to match this, it's a known fact that this bike is already plenty rich enough at WOT / top end in stock form. So the opened up air box will proberly now just be better matched to the factory rich rate at WOT. Therefore there is proberly no real need or performance gain to add any more fuel via setting number 3 on the FMF. ( When at standard bore size ).

I too myself had originally carried out many tests with richer settings on all numbers, but really without a dyno and exhaust CO reader you can not be 100% certain of any possible small gains or losses. All you have really got is a "seat of the pants placebo effect" during any "tweek & ride".....

But what FMF has got is plenty of time and money invested in proper R&D testing to get the best overall numbers that give the best overall gains.

One thing for sure is that if you add way more fuel than is needed, you will go backwards in every regard of performance, fuel consumption and excess soot build up / fouling. ( Although you would not be alone there, as i see plenty of guys on here over the years that just pour the fuel in with excessively high FMF settings...Proberly the same bikes with new owners that turn up back here again with "faulty" spark plugs, lol ).

If you really want to get the absolute best air / fuel ratio's at any throttle position, then just be done with it and drop the big $$$ on the W/B O2 Sensor Auto tune kit.

So any news yet on what numbers you have found your current FMF settings at ?

Cheers.

Just went out to the garage and checked.

FMF Setting Previously:

3 - 5 - 1 - 3 - 6 - 6

I just put in:

3 - 2 - 1 - 1 - 6 - 4

I'm thinking that -5 was just too much fuel on acceleration and it was blowing the spark out coming off idle?

ac

Yes mate that 2nd number set at 5 was quite excessive...... Just look at it in comparison even to my 290 FMF 2nd number setting of 4 - which even that is slightly above the recommended 3.5.

Also just keep in mind that with your 4th number set to 1, it's turning on the fuel adding mode at the 1st number setting very early. The FMF default for your mods on number 4 is way up at the other end of the scale on setting 8. Refer to page 4 of the FMF instruction guide, as it will show you that the 1st number is for the off idle / cruise fuel adding mode, and the level as set at number 4 will determine at what time that mode 1 is actually triggered. At your now current setting you will be adding that extra fuel in very early just off idle. This proberly won't help with your off idle stall condition.

I'd maybe suggest to go with these following settings, 3 - 2 - 0.5 - 8 - 6 - 4....

Then go for a decent run to clear everything out. Hopefully you will get a noticible improvement by just changing these settings. I would still even suggest to replace the spark plug regardless. Then if everything is all ok, you could start experimenting with the 3rd number set to turn on at 1.

Cheers.

I'll try that if this doesn't fix it. I've read that dropping that 4th number really increased the snappyness of the throttle response. I was looking for that result.

ac

No worries mate....

Either way please report back here with your end results, as all this info may really help others in the future with similar issues. It's very nice when all members complete their threads with a "known fix" for any particular problem.

Cheers.   

GT-250 wrote:

No worries mate....

Either way please report back here with your end results, as all this info may really help others in the future with similar issues. It's very nice when all members complete their threads with a "known fix" for any particular problem.

Cheers.   

Will do! I'm not sure when I'll get it out for a test ride but I will report back!

ac

So I promised to follow-up.

I took the bike for a good ride around the property this evening. That "1" in the 5th position was BAD. WAY WRONG. The bike would just bog out and almost die if I whacked the throttle open. Rather than lift the front, the bike bogged and tried to throw me over the bars! I moved it right up to an "8" and that seems to have solved that.

The bike feels WAY more responsive with the new settings. I'm not sure if I will stop here, or if I will keep messing with it.

3-2-1-8-6-4

ac