Oil, oil and more oil

taoshum wrote:

Not that many people care one way or the other but there is a larger perspective... There's probably 200 Million vehicles (or more?) of one sort or another in this country. On average, if all change their oil 4 times per year and average four quarts or one gallon, that's 3.2 Billion gallons of oil. Or 58 million barrels... at $75 a barrel, plus refining, say $100/barrel, that's $6 Billion.

If we were able to extend the oil change interval so that oil is changed twice a year, we save $3 Billion, just in oil. That doesn't count the costs of oil changes, filters, labor, etc... probably another 3-4 Billion. Nor does it count the costs to deal with the occasional spill or leak, like the one in the Gulf right now.

World wide, it's probably 10-20 times that? I don't really know.

Since there's a finite amount of oil available, you get the picture. We can talk about the pros and cons of an individual motorcyle oil change and think that it doesn't matter but when you look at it as a total, it makes a huge difference.

Oh well.

Don't forget about the used oil and what happens to it? How often is it not properly disposed of?


Any way...a new filter is cheap. Way cheaper than an engine. Oil, at least the oil I like to use in my X is more expensive. Why cheap out on the filter when putting in expensive oil?

Why change oil more then needed when buying the expensive oil?

Define needed?

To each their own.

I feel like starting a religion thread in the "off topic" section. I bet it won't get as much action as an "oil" topic.

SheWolf wrote:

We can't run oil that's got moly in it because of our wet clutch. It's too slippery an additive and screws up the clutchpack.

Moly, PTFE or any other product that's supposed to stick to the surfaces to reduce engine wear.

mash100 wrote:

...is just a play thing. I wonder how long your average R2 rider will keep his machine - I've ridden 2,000 miles since March, & at the moment intend to keep the bike for at least another year, maybe year & a half. I think depreciation will then become an issue, & it will be time to move on, probably to something different (???).

I never try to guess how long I will keep a bike or car, but I disagree with the idea that one should care less about maintenance if you don't intend to keep the vehicle or bike long enough for it to impact you. That "let the next guy worry about it" mentality isn't very neighborly. Now, mash100, I know you are saying to follow the recommended intervals, so this isn't directed at you, but there are those out there that don't do good maintenance because they think like what I said above.

I buy used vehicles all the time and it's sometimes obvious when the seller didn't maintain it correctly. In that case, I walk away. But buying what one hopes to be a good running vehicle and then finding out the seller didn't take care of it and it costing me in repairs just plain sucks. Why would one NOT want to maintain a vehicle well (plaything or not) even if you intend to sell it off to some poor unsuspecting soul before your poor maintenance or abuse shows up. Often times, that person is buying used because they can't afford new, and now you've sold him something that you've abused because you don't give a rats ass since you planned on selling it off before it impacts you. Now that guy that could barely afford it gets saddled with potential issues and can't afford to fix it. That is just not right in my book. Treat a vehicle like you will own it forever and then if you sell it, the future owners get a well maintained and hopefully long lived vehicle...even if it's "just a plaything".

I'm at 8,000 miles on my WR250R in about 14 months and that is with no multiple day trips, putting miles on our other bikes and an ATV, and with long Montana winters (though I rode to work down to 15 degrees with heated gear before the roads got icy). I can't foresee a time that I'll sell it, but maybe it will get ridden less when/if I add another bike. The latest additions always tend to get the most ride time. I expect I'll be in the 20,000 - 30,000 mile range before I even start to think about selling it, but we'll see.

[quote="Chadx"]

mash100 wrote:

.. Treat a vehicle like you will own it forever and then if you sell it, the future owners get a well maintained and hopefully long lived vehicle...even if it's "just a plaything".

right on! If you have any respect for machinery, this is an obligation! If for no other reason, do it for the people who designed and built the machine in the first place. Thanks for saying what you said so well.

Hey Chadx: I completely agree about correct maintenance. Even keeping your bike spotlessly clean (I polish mine every weekend...) will help. I just think that some people take oil changing WAAAY too seriously for what they apparently do with their bikes. & yeah, there's no way I would like to sell my x (or car, or anything else) on to someone, haveing not maintained it properly; I tend to covert things I buy (I even maintain my stereo, but that's another story..), particularly given my lousy earnings!!!

Any reason not to use it?

Bike has 8,200 miles with dino oil up to now.

Will change filter too.

Advance Auto Parts had the Synthetic 10W40 and it's more convenient to get there than go to a bike shop where I live.

Thanks!

Anyone using it? I'd heard the diesel additive package is supposed to work well with the tranny and roller bearings, but not corrupt the clutch plates.

Just switched to it a few hundred ago when I went with the Revloc auto-clutch and hence clutchless shifting.

Seems to work dandy so far.

Was using dino Rotella 15w40 to finish the break in just prior to that.

-feetz


edit: How about German Castrol 0w30? It's supposed to have the centistoke equivalent of about 40 weight yet has good cold flow properties. Additive package might not be the best for the gearbox??

I figure with PAO base stock, it might be a good choice due to shearing resistance to hold up to roller/ball bearings tryin' to roll all those little ole stringy lookin' molecules flat?

BF

motokid wrote:

So I'm bored off my ass because it's been raining here for what seems like a month.

I'm thinking I want to change my oil. Typical practice has always seemed to be to warm your engine up before you drain oil.

WHY?

My little X has been sitting still for about a week now. Gravity has worked it's magic and pulled all the oil in her down to the lowest point.

Wouldn't I get the most old oil out of her by draining it now?
If I start the bike and warm it up doesn't that push oil up into areas where it won't flow out as easily?

It's not freezing here so oil viscosity is not a huge issue. I have 20w50 in the X and I'd be surprised if it does not run out rather easily.

Is warming the motor up about suspending the "dirt" particles in the oil so the oil carries them out easier?

What's the theory at work here?

Yeah, it's the suspension theory. All you have to do it warm it up good and then leave it drain out for about a month to get every last drop, then put the plug in and fill her back up.

SEe? There is a solution to all of life's little problems if we just look hard enough.

I'm thinking about trying out some pure synthetic and hoping the clutch doesn't slip. I need to find a cheap place to buy some filters too!

The way I understand it, it's more about the additives than the oil. Here's a heck of a site; be sure to check out the motorcycle forum:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/


Sarah

Reading in this topic because I have 8500 miles with mostly 10W40 Mobil 1 4T. My OCI has only made it over 1000 miles twice I think because the bike went swimming or got so dirty you figure some if it got into the oil. But the couple times I have left the oil in, I notice the transmission getting notchy. Changing the oil restores smooth shifting and catching an accidental neutral less often. Am I the only one that notices this?

I think that sometimes we put more attention to oil than to the air filter.

Changing oil often whatever the oil shouldn't hurt the engine. So the cheapest oil that you change frequently is better than the best oil that you change every now and then.

Air filter is a much more important part. The fine parts are the one that are grinding the combustion chamber. Since the environment in which a dual purpose bike is usually very different one day from the other, the care of the air filter is much more important.

Specific attention to oil is more important when you're on the track or any competition.

For riding in cold weather say down to 10F with highs temps of 50F would it be better to run a 10w30 or 10w40?

I really appreciate all the sane and respectful discussion that is going on here. Three cheers for all.

One thing that I haven't seen anyone mention is that filters get better after collecting some of the particles into the pores in the filter material. All screens, whether they are paper or metal are made to a tolerance and there will be bigger holes and smaller holes than the average (specification) bell curve middle. When those bigger holes get full of a particle the filter does a progressively better job at filtering until the screen clogs and the pressure to push the substance (oil, water, air) through is too great and either the bypass functions or there is starvation downstream of the filter. That is the reason that I have read or heard as the reasoning for leaving a filter in for more than one oil change. Never heard advocated for leaving it more than 2 cycles of oil though.

I would never do that in a new engine because, as seen in several of the pictures, there are a lot of particles that need to be filtered out during the break-in. After that period, if you were not riding a lot of dirt or dusty conditions, and you were changing oils at regular intervals it seems to me that it would provide even better filtering of even finer particles.

What I don't know is if there is a good bypass system built into this engine or if it is one of those engine designs that filters only a portion of the oil that is being moved through the oil pump. More educated minds will need to wax poetic on that! Brilliant commentary any one....

Jon

Can't believe I be readin da whole thang....

Bike: 2010 WR250X  w/ 3206km.

I picked up a K&N oil filter (KN-140) and some Motul 7100 Ester 10W40 100% synthetic oil.
The manual says not to use "too good of an oil", but I've always used Motul in my motocrosses and couldn't resist.

They say it has "wet clutch anti-slipping technology".

What do you guys think? That oil should be ok in the bike right?

I didn't get to ride very much last summer (learner's permit) but just to update on the Motul 7100 Ester 10W40 100% synthetic oil.....I like it. Engine and clutch both feel good. I'll continue using it.

Well, I did about 3000 miles this summer and just did my yearly oil change...
I used the "same" K&N oil filter (KN-140) and 1.3L of Motul 7100 Ester 10W40 100% synthetic oil again since the bike ran great all summer with this combo.
I figure I'll change the filter every time since they are fairly cheap and I run the full interval.

I've been running the Shell Rotella T6 synthetic with the same K&N filter you're using. The oil looks great every time I check it. I live right at the base of the Pine Nut Mtns and frequently climb 2-3,000 vertical feet with a good load on the bike and no level ground for relief. I'm not running WOT except on tough hill climbs, but I'm not babying the engine/oil.