87?

Hey guys and gals,

Just had a question regarding octane. I live in a bush community in Alaska and the recommended fuel rating of 91 is not available here. I have run octane boost using my ghetto measuring device (aka, my eye) to try and keep up the octane (from the only 87 available here). I am not what you would call "mechanically inclined" although I'm pretty sure what "knock" sounds like. I'm just curious about how much damage can percievably happen by running 87 octane with boost and if there is any more precise way to measure the correct ratio.

If there are any suggestions on any mods I can do to negate possible issues arrising from running this low of octane fuel, I would love to hear them. Kind of gets me wondering why the hell they sell these bikes up here when they know that a higher level of octane is required........

I'm just wanting to keep my baby in the best running condition as possible. I friggin' love my WR and I don't want to have to rebuild the engine due to a lack of choices of fuel.

I also would like to add that I love the hell out of this forum and would like to thank everyone here for the info provided.........already have a 12/48 sprocket setup along with XC Handguards with the integrated blinkers...........just the start of mods, I'm sure!

The octane issue is much like oil, pizza, and religion. (which one is best?)

How's your bike run on 87 octane? Is it knocking or pinging?

If you do not notice any adverse side-effects from running a lower octane you should be fine.

Should be. (there's the religion/oil/pizza part)

Like previosly mentioned, I'm not particularly "mechanically inclined" but I'm pretty sure I hear some sort of knocking in comparison to other WR's I've heard on the internet running.........like I said, I just don't want to burn the SOB up. Then again, it could just be the distortion heard from an internet vid..........who frickin' knows...........I just don't want to ride the thing 'till the wheels fall off, ya know?

#1) I would not compare live engine noise to something you hear over the internet.

#2) Did you buy from a local dealership?

#3) Are you "hearing things" based on paranoia or is it something really there? if you were running 91 octane would you question the noises you think you are hearing?

#4) Does anybody else in your general area own a wr250r/x that you could compare your bike with?

I'm not exactly sure why Yamaha and the wr specify 91 octane other than a broad reaching safety net.
I'm not sure the compression of the stock set up demands using higher octane.

It might be based on air-flow restrictions, emmisions, and the relatively high rpm range (for a single).

Octane sensitivity is supposed to be more of an issue with carburated engines and much less an issue with fuel injected engines. If you are at a higher altitude I've read you can get away with lower octane as well.

Perhaps you can contact Yamaha and ask about your specific situation and see what they say?

The following, once again, is MY opinion...

Yamaha recommends 91 octane due to the type of engine they built. With the given compression and running characteristics, 91 octane is recommended (I read: required) to prevent premature combustion a.k.a. pinging.

This is a good read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking

If you're running 87, you're running a higher risk (not guarantee) of pinging. If your engine does ping, it could basically destroy itself.

Now.. there is at least one guy on this forum who is taking the long way down, meaning a long-ass trip through South America. He claims to be running 87 pretty regularly and so far is still on the road. However.. that is HIS experience, yours may vary.

I would be very careful and try to boost the octane in whatever way you can. If octane boosters actually work (I don't know much about them), you'd be playing it safe by using them regularly.

My $0.02

if you're going to run 87 try to keep the revs up and the loads light. low rpm and high loading is where an engine is most likely to knock.

Mr.Metal wrote:

The following, once again, is MY opinion...

Yamaha recommends 91 octane due to the type of engine they built. With the given compression and running characteristics, 91 octane is recommended (I read: required) to prevent premature combustion a.k.a. pinging.

This is a good read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_knocking

If you're running 87, you're running a higher risk (not guarantee) of pinging. If your engine does ping, it could basically destroy itself.

Now.. there is at least one guy on this forum who is taking the long way down, meaning a long-ass trip through South America. He claims to be running 87 pretty regularly and so far is still on the road. However.. that is HIS experience, yours may vary.

I would be very careful and try to boost the octane in whatever way you can. If octane boosters actually work (I don't know much about them), you'd be playing it safe by using them regularly.

My $0.02

Your two cents are correct.

However, the general rule of thumb is if you are not experiencing knock, ping, detonation, or any other adverse effects then you are safe running any octane which does not change that which is previously mentioned.

The wr250 is not that strung out technically. It's a street bike designed to run basically forever. Not a racebike that needs an complete engine rebuild every 500 miles.

Yamaha knows it's selling these things all over the world and in many different environments. 91 octane covers all spectrum's of riding. From Arizona desert in August to Arctic Circle in January.

I'm not saying running 87 is safe for everybody, and/or any one. All I can say is many people have run 87 because they've had no choice and lived to ride another day.
Again, I'd write or call Yamaha and explain the situation to them and see what they say.

Would a warranty be void using 87 octane?

alaskanassasin wrote:

... by running 87 octane with boost and if there is any more precise way to measure the correct ratio.

I would think that running octane boost, in the correct ratio, would bring your octane rating into spec and ease your mind. You mentioned in another thread that you were eyeballing the measurement. I would suggest that you try to be more precise. I'd hazard a guess that you're using way too much. Without knowing your fueling habits, I'll throw out a few suggestions.

1. Determine the correct Octane Booster to gas (87 Octane) ratio. This should be on the product label, if not, try another booster product. I've seen fuel treatment labels say vague things like - "treats a tank of gas", or if you're lucky, "treats 22 gallons". If your product treats 22 gallons, are you getting at least 11 servings from a bottle? I did a quick search and the first product I could find with any specifications was a Lucas Octane Booster that says - 15oz. bottle treats 25 gallons. For the sake of easy math, let's round that up to 30 gallons. At that rate, 1/2oz treats 2 gallons. That would be fun to measure. What this product description didn't say was, at this ratio, what base octane is raised to what boosted octane? In other words: is that 87 to 91, or in the case of race fuel, something to 104? Mute point because the advert. says "Not street legal".

2. If for example, the label says "treats 22 gallons", then at least get 4 measuring cups and divide equally. Then pour each 5.5 gallon treatment into a 5 gallon can of gas. It's a little over. Then you can top off your tank at home after every ride or so. What's that you say? You don't have 4 5-gallon cans of gas sitting around?

3. The ideal solution would be carry single tank octane booster servings so you always have it wherever you fill up. Of course this is only ideal if you have safe and appropriately sized containers for the booster. Something the size of those little 5-hour energy drink bottles would be nice. I'm not suggesting those because I have no idea if they're safe for volatile fluids and would guess that they're not. Maybe your research will turn up something useful. I also found this link to an 18-pack of 2oz Lucas "Motorcycle Octane Booster".

4. On the assumption that you arrive home at least once between fill-ups, in most cases, then just meter out the the recommended dosage when you get home. Bear in mind your actual fill-up amount. Mine is usually around 1.5 gallons. This way, you just need a little measuring cup (spoon?), no fancy containers. Actually, this method would probably work fine for extended road trips too.

I'm really surprised that I spent so much time on a subject that I have no need for

Good luck in your quest.

Thanks for the replies everyone..........boondocker, thanks for spending the uneccesary time!

I think I have been feeding a bit too much per tank, as the only booster I can buy here doesn't specify the amount of fuel it treats, but based on the amounts you mentioned I'm sure I am probably using too much.

Did I mention I love this site?

what's the name of the octane booster?

Be careful when figuring out how much octane booster you need. the first bottle I bought had no measurement information whatsoever, just said treats up to 22 gallons, but didn't say what exactly it did to 22 gallons. I found a different brand at walmart and it said the same thing but also said it will raise the octane 10 points. I thought sweet, at least I can figure out how much I need by doing the math of the gallons and how much I want to raise the octane. then I started reading the fine print and realized 10 "points" equals 1 octane, not 10 more octane. so if you had 22 gallons of 87, one bottle would make it 88 octane. I did some quick math in my head and realized I would need to dump about half a bottle in the tank to raise it to the octane numbers I wanted and it would be almost doubling my cost of filling my tank. so i continue running 91, or 93 when I can find it, instead of the 96 recommended for the big bore and will continue to do so as long as I don't get pinging. but if you don't have a choice and have to use octane boost then you don't have a choice.

mattf........thanks for the info. Stumo: just a generic car quest brand (only auto parts store here). I've been contemplating ordering some online, but with that kind of stuff they charge hazmat to the shipping, so it becomes very expensive. But that compared to price of screwing up the engine may be worth it in the long run.

Isn't the WRR recommended to run on 95 octane?
That's what mine says on the tank.
Normally I use standard 91 octane fuel and notice no difference to 95 octane except sometimes there a flat spot off idle when the bikes cold.

Good reading:

https://wr250rforum.forumotion.com/wrr-x-general-discussion-f3/what-about-premium-gas-t166.htm?highlight=octane+gas

Sarah

Glad we have 98 RON (Ocatne) in Australia. Mine runs well in all conditions, and if I'm ever 'outback', the worst fuel available is 91 RON. Life is sweet.

Remember UK octane is RON (research). US octane is often given as PON (pump).

95 RON is comparable to 83 MON (Motor) and 87 PON.

PON = (RON+MON)/2

Apples with Apples, please.

I have just read on Wikipedia (so it must be true) that PON is also referred to as Road Octane Number or RdON. Now there's a typically unhelpful acronym in this context!!!

I ran a few tanks of 85 octane while out in Idaho and Montana. No issues.