Fisheries policy...

I wonder if fish stocks are going up anywhere on this planet?
I feel for the fisherman...but this is their suggested solution?
I guess its that pesky nature to blame...it cant seem to do anything right...
Though I guess we need to manage our dwindling resources somehow....if only the economy...........

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/story/2011/09/15/nl-seal-cull-915.html

Is it wrong for somebody to stick an arrow in this guy?

For entertainment...excuse me , the sport...probably wrong.

For survival, and in good practice...probably right.

Why don't we eat the seals?

Good question.

Hunters donate thousands of pounds of deer meat to charity for feeding the homeless.

In many places, like where I live, deer populations are exploding because there's no natural predators.

Hunting has many reasons and benefits.

I'd rather someone kill a deer with their gun or bow than have me kill the deer with my truck or motorcycle.

john92 wrote:

I'd rather someone kill a deer with their gun or bow than have me kill the deer with my truck or motorcycle.

and deer jerky is mouthgasmic

In my region catch has decreased significantly during my 40 years of fishing. It has decreased because snowmobiles aero planes helicopters has mad remote fishing waters accessible. I do think that the big change of climate in my region has made char fishing worse. 1 month less of winter in the fall and 1 month less winter in the spring made waters warmer so char spawn is affected by the climate change. It is remarkable difference since the 70's in the weather.

john92 wrote:

I'd rather someone kill a deer with their gun or bow than have me kill the deer with my truck or motorcycle.

++

And deer is tasty! Had some nice deer sausage from here last weekend:
http://www.maisonstaner.ca/
Their bison and wild boar is good too!

I've had 2 motorcycle crashes thanks to deer. Every year I have a few 2-wheel near deer encounters (more than 10K kms on back roads = lots of deer.)
Three of my friends hit deer this year. They had the good fortune to stay up on 2 wheels, all 3 bikes had damage.

Unfortunately for us, deer are very stupid, pretty big, and very fast. They also wait until you're very near them, then bolt randomly.
A few times this year in more open areas I spotted deer well ahead right on the road shoulder. I slow down to 30 kph (about 20 mph), and they take off, in any direction, just as I get there.

The last deer I hit with a car, crossed the highway , ahead of the guy in front of me.
I asssume...when she got to the ditch on the other side, she could see nothing but blackness, because of the headlights and the terrain.
Since she couldnt see...she panicked and attempted to flee back the way she came...back across the highway.
She was quick, but my fender bumped her hind end...maybe giving her a bruise, but barely slowin her down.
Friggin lucky for around here.
Now pheasants...they're all about stupid, and a good meal.

So if we get back to the original topic of seal killing:

Quote :

A fishing industry council is recommending that up to 70,000 grey seals should be killed to test the hypothesis that the mammals are preventing the recovery of cod stocks in the southern Gulf of St. Lawrence.

The recommendation is part of a Fisheries Resource Conservation Council report released Thursday.

It’s estimated more than 100,000 grey seals forage the southern Gulf from New Brunswick to Nova Scotia. The FRCC is recommending that more than two-thirds of them should be culled.

"It has been estimated that the number of grey seals foraging the southern Gulf would have to be reduced by 70 per cent, to approximately 31,000 animals, in order to reduce the natural mortality of cod to a level sufficiently low to allow for a measurable increase in the southern Gulf cod stock," says the council’s report.

The report says an estimated 350,000 grey seals live in the Sable Island area, southeast of Nova Scotia.

Harp and hooded seals also live in the Gulf area. Harp seals, which are the primary target of the annual seal hunt in Atlantic Canada, are estimated to have a population of approximately 9.1 million in Eastern Canada.

Test the hypothesis? What the hell?

Here's another hypothesis - human overfishing and human pollution might have a greater effect on cod population in that area.

The report is a bit ambiguous too. 100,000 mentioned in one sentence and 350,000 mentioned in another. And that's just one species of seal that eat cod?


Does anybody know if the dead seal is used for anything productive? Like feeding people, or livestock?

This isn't just a "shoot the animal and leave it to rot in the ocean" kind of scenario is it?

Before I'd pass judgment on the practice I'd want to know much more information about it. Posting a cute little picture of the animal, with it's big sad eyes looking at you all innocent and stuff is just a bit too much. Is there anybody here at this forum that's much more familiar with that area and what's going on?

I've heard that polar bear populations are down.. don't really know why if seals are so plentiful. That is their meal of choice. Killer whales & sharks eat seals, too, & i haven't heard that their numbers are down.

It is hard to know what to believe.. so many information sources have an agenda & juggle the facts to suit their purposes. They 'guide' us to an opinion, based on the direction they want us to go. But as usual, there is another side that has valid points as well. Wouldn't it be nice if there was more open, transparent information available?

But that's not likely, so we have to be skeptical & jaded in our information searches.

I have no doubt that fishing & hunting needs management. People will not show restraint when harvesting fish or elk or lemmings. The other extreme is to 'protect' all the innocent animals, so their numbers explode with no predators.

I don't suppose we *have* to manage our hunting of fish & wildlife. We can let them fend for themselves, & just say the fittest survive. If they don't adapt to their environment, they will go extinct, like many species before them. Why should cod get a pass? Let the seals & everyone else eat them all until there are no more. Then the seals can adapt to eat people, or vice versa. Who needs all this diversity, anyway? Let the world get down to a few dominant species, & they can fight it out for whatever resources are left.

If we're going to manage other species, why do we not manage our own? Are we going to rely on war, famine, & disease to regulate our human populations?

The Inuit know that seals are vicious, hateful animals, and they aren't fooled by their big brown eyes & sad puppy faces. They see them as their enemy & club as many as they can. Why the outrage from animal rights groups? Those of us in milder climates have different species we are at war with (mostly with each other), & we can't understand the vendetta toward the seals. They should show some Inuit babies with big sad eyes, & a pack of vicious seals about to attack them.

No, if the seals want to survive, they can develop opposeable thumbs & weapons of mass destruction, like we do.

Here in Newfoundland, people eat seal meat. They also eat turkey necks, and song birds, in fact almost anything that moves is fair game. Fifty years ago it was a necessity for survival, now its just barbaric.
There is not much nobility in it. Two guys in a pick up, one in the back with a rifle, shooting from the highway.

We over-fished and decimated the cod stocks. If the seals were the problem, they would have died out, or their numbers severely curtailed, due to lack of food.
Therefor the problem is to be found elsewhere.

Seal meat is not very pleasant. If it was, poor old Newfoundland would be selling it. Yes I know that the Chinese are wanting to buy some, but that does not mean that it is edible!

bruno wrote:

Here in Newfoundland, people eat seal meat. They also eat turkey necks, and song birds, in fact almost anything that moves is fair game. Fifty years ago it was a necessity for survival, now its just barbaric.
There is not much nobility in it. Two guys in a pick up, one in the back with a rifle, shooting from the highway.

Shooting seals from the highway - two guys in a pickup?

Awesome. We need guys who can make long distance shots like that in the military!

But, perhaps you speak of hunting in general. Did you give up on hunting because you saw everyone else hunting in this manner? (and, BTW: A person shall not carry, transport or possess a loaded firearm in or on or discharge the same from any aircraft, motor car or other vehicle and for the purpose of this subsection a firearm shall be considered loaded if it has a loaded shell or cartridge in the barrel or in the magazine and that magazine is affixed to the firearm in its usual position.)

Or are you a non-hunter who just KNOWS how it's done by hunters?

I am always amused at those who condemn hunting as "barbaric". Clearly, they believe their chicken breast, bacon, steaks, and hamburger were all born and raised on a white styrofoam tray, covered in cellophane. Because they've obviously never seen what goes on in a slaughterhouse. And definitely never watched cattle and pigs being driven up the "stairway to heaven" on the killing floor. Supporting your appetite and that industry is one thing; to do it while calling hunting "barbaric" is not only hypocritical, but trending towards amusing.

Of course, then we have the vegetarians, desperately claiming the higher moral ground - while meeting demands for soy products is the leading cause of the destruction of the Amazon rainforests and the ongoing extinction of many species.

I didn't find seal to be half bad at all, although it doesn't compare to really nice elk or moose steak. Given the comparative pricing for game farmed elk and deer versus beef at finer restaurants, others obviously agree. I find domestic meat to be generally tasteless and fatty. On the other hand, I don't presume to tell those who like it that it is not very pleasant and inedible.

Barbaric?!!? Us humans??

We should eat the seals.. before they eat us. ..just like we should attack the wiley cabbages before they pass us on the evolutionary scale. Some people like to decapitate the vicious cabbages themselves, others pay someone else to do it.

But to get back on topic, it seems to me we should try to factor all the variables when managing wildlife, even cod. If we let fishing companies harvest them without regulation, they will certainly dwindle. If there are too many seals or other predators, let them be hunted or fished, too. A big problem is who is doing the decision making, & what their criteria are. If it is money in their pocket, the cod will dwindle. But that stat will become known & the 'managers' should get the boot. But if PETA runs the show, cod will overpopulate. Some balance & reason would be nice.. but in this world? No, the cod are finished, & the seals are next. We should eat all of them we can while they are still around.

rydnseek wrote:

Barbaric?!!? Us humans??

We should eat the seals.. before they eat us. ..just like we should attack the wiley cabbages before they pass us on the evolutionary scale. Some people like to decapitate the vicious cabbages themselves, others pay someone else to do it.

But to get back on topic, it seems to me we should try to factor all the variables when managing wildlife, even cod. If we let fishing companies harvest them without regulation, they will certainly dwindle. If there are too many seals or other predators, let them be hunted or fished, too. A big problem is who is doing the decision making, & what their criteria are. If it is money in their pocket, the cod will dwindle. But that stat will become known & the 'managers' should get the boot. But if PETA runs the show, cod will overpopulate. Some balance & reason would be nice.. but in this world? No, the cod are finished, & the seals are next. We should eat all of them we can while they are still around.

I must agree with most of what say.
But thinking PETA or anyone, could somehow, with their policies, lead to overpopulation issues, beyond what nature intended to begin with, is a stretch of anyones imagination.
If you don't think the economy, in general, is the main driving force in the management policies of all resources...then what is it you think the left and right argue over so passionately?

mucker wrote:

But thinking PETA or anyone, could somehow, with their policies, lead to overpopulation issues, beyond what nature intended to begin with, is a stretch of anyones imagination.

Real fact disagrees with you.

One quick and easy lesson is the bans on hunting in numerous places. Because hunting is bad and barbaric, to protect the deer, etc. Those protectionist policies invariably lead to deer numbers over and above their carrying capacity, invariably followed by widespread disease and starvation.

If you're mind isn't overly stretched by that thought, you might want to read up on the lesson that such protectionism taught in the Kaibab. Meanwhile, deer populations have gotten so great in the Kimberley/Cranbrook area after their city limits were extended for miles outside of town and hunting within town by any means became prohibited, that they are now pressing the province to trap and kill large numbers of deer within city limits.

PETA, the Sierra Club, the ASPCA and many others don't understand that there is a difference between conservation and preservation.