Firearms. How have we not gotten to this yet?

Do you shoot? Do you shoot for fun? Competitively?

Got a collection? Just one or two?

Go.

I just bought my first gun, a few weeks ago.
A Crosman 1377 pellet gun.
I was never a hunter, but loved target practice.
Anywho, I like the fact that I can practice at something...who knows where it will go?...myb that fn squirrel...
I have alotta buddies who hunt...but my, limited experience, was military.
I will probably learn to hunt well, eventually.
But for now, target shooting ( in my back yard) is a blast.

For me, I need to jump many hoops to register a firearm. So, unless I decide to hunt or compete, it doesnt seem worth the hassle, at times.
For now I'm almost content to use/modify my crosman, though a nice air rifle would be my next choice.

...you gotta register anything over 500 fps, with a particular hitting force, around here.
Not sure if a .22 air gun at 500 fps would qualify...though a .177 does.

I love shooting, wish I could afford to shoot more than a .22lr. I'm currently at 0 guns, something I'm hopefulyl rectifying after tax season with a new 12ga pump for me. Like to pick up a 9mm and a .22lr handgun for plinking and cheap range days.

I've owned a remington 700, a 20ga mossberg 500, and a s+w model 10 .38spl rhkp gun. Sold the revolver in spring to help fund my wandering through the southeast trip and to ease possible hassles on the road as when I left I had everything with me I needed to start over. Sold the long guns a few weeks ago to help pay for art supplies and other items for my final semester in college.

17 her to 45
Pistols and rifles.
Target and hunt
If it flies it dies.
Would like to venture hunting and the wr in the same trip.
Long live the second.

About two gun safe's worth... I've reached the point in life where I think the numbers will remain static until it is time for the long dirt nap.

I've whittled the shotguns down to three. Seems that a Superposed and a B2000 will cover about all my upland hunting and competitive shooting needs. The final one is my grandfather's side by side, willed to me at my father's death a year ago. I intend to take it out and bust a rooster or two with it each year in memory of both of them.

About a dozen handguns, mostly for competition. A few dedicated for carry/self defense, and the family Webley revolver going back to my grandfather in the Great War, followed by an uncle flying Beaufighters in WWII over Burma. Handed to me prior to my first tour overseas - didn't have the heart to tell the old boy .455 Webley ammunition wasn't in the NATO supply system...

Rifles... all sorts; everything represented except pumps and doubles/drillings. Hunting, service rifle competition, Olympic small bore, cast bullets, and a few muzzle stuffers. An AR15 built up to military configuration to ensure I stay on my A-game as a military small arms instructor. A couple of family heirlooms going back to the 1800's, which I still take out hunting a few times a year just because.

Closest thing to a "collection" is a selection of Husqvarna's, all built back in the 60's, which I bought new. They all see the hunting fields, but have some value to Husqvarna collector's - you don't find many 358 Norma Magnums lying around these days. The shotguns, rifles, and handguns that have all been in our family for over or nearly a hundred years have a lot of personal value to me, but would only be of mild interest to collectors.

There's something about taking your elk with a rifle your grandfather took elk with back in 1896 that has a strong appeal to it. Or pheasants with the shotgun your other grandfather shot grouse with back in Scotland.

Good stuff Jager!

I'm up to 8 firearms. I bought my first one in December '09 I think.

Two AR-15's, one of which I put together myself (big mistake; bought lots of expensive bits).

Three Smith & WEsson M&P pistols now; 9mm Pro, .40 compact, .22LR (bought the 3rd on Black Friday).

Two .22LR rifles; a Marlin 795 and a pretty old Savage that was a going away gift from my last base.

Then there's my 20 guage Mossy 500 for clay shooting.

I did my first competitive pistol match a few weeks ago (USPSA). Lots of fun! I'll be going back for more, and that's where the most recent pistol purchase originated from. I was pretty bad so I bought the .22 pistol to practice on the cheap with.

Sounds like we have some real enthusiasts here.
My list includes:
.38 special, .357 dirty Harry ,Thompson center 22, usp compact 45, sigp232, p38, luger 30 cal, Ruger charger
Long ones:
Mini 30 weatherby mark v, Galil, fnfal, Sks, ar15, r25, sbeii, ak47, rem1100, rem35,looking for the ultimate varmint gun and better optics

Snapped some shots for a friend and thought I share here for the hell of it.

pbnut wrote:

Snapped some shots for a friend and thought I share here for the hell of it.

Jealous of some of the gear you guys get access to. Australia has strict laws and many hoops to jump through for firearm ownership.

I don't get out to shoot much, but that'll change cos I just bought a new rifle (17hmr) to keep my .22lr and .243 company.

I hunted a lot as a kid in Missouri, but not much since coming to az 25+ yrs ago. I had an old 16ga rem 870 i bought used when i was 16.. gave it to my older son for xmas cpl yrs back. I inherited my dad's old k22 masterpiece.. a s&w beauty. I used to hunt squirrels with it. I also got his 38 spc revolver. .. and i have a couple of 22 rifles. a rem. nylon 77 & ithaca single shot.

But in the last few years, i've added to my old collection. I decided to get a more modern rifle, so got a bushmaster 223, & a bolt action tikka 308. My son in law got me started with another handgun, a glock 19. I've got a couple more 22's & some 12 ga. I went duck hunting up in ogden last year, & got a semi 3.5" tristar.. cheap but functional. Also have a pump & an older browning A3.

I guess that sounds like a lot.. it is surprising how things like this accumulate. They don't wear out, & if you take care of them, don't lose them , break them, or get them stolen, they will last for generations.

I know most countries in the world do not have a second amendment like we do in the us. Looking over the history of the world, i believe it has contributed to our longevity as a nation.. having a well armed citizenry. The Japanese ruled out invading the us in early ww2, because they thought 'there will be a rifle behind every blade of grass'.

Many in the rest of the world probably do not understand how the 2nd amendment is a good thing, but in states where there are fewer restrictions, there is actually less crime. We have a naturally inbred distrust of our govt. It is part of our dna. The govt cheerleaders want us to let them have more power over us.. restrict us more, but hopefully they will not succeed & the us will remain a beacon of individual freedom. We have the longest active constitution in the world, & it can last longer if we can stop the run toward statism we have been on for a while.

Funny how almost any thread becomes a springboard for me to rant about us constitutional liberty!

When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel."
Patrick Henry

"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin."
Samuel Adams

I got rid of my guns when the kids came along. Kids are grown now and I decided a year ago that it would be nice to have something around for personal defense, so I bought a Glock 19.

When I went to Alaska, I decided to bring a pistol, but the 19 was too big for CC so I bought a 26.

When my son was in town over the holidays, we went to the local gun store to look around and ended up buying two Diamondback DB9s. Nice little 9mm pocket guns. Makes the 26 look like a cannon.

So, it appears that my collection is growing again.

rydnseek wrote:

...
Many in the rest of the world probably do not understand how the 2nd amendment is a good thing, but in states where there are fewer restrictions, there is actually less crime.

I've got nothing against guns per se (was an avid moose and wildfowl hunter for many years), but I gotta question this one, at least what it seems to imply. That statistic might be true across the US, state to state, but the rate of violent crime is considerably lower here in Canada than in the US, and we have arguably more stringent gun laws. The murder rate in the US is almost 3 times that of Canada. We do have a slightly higher property crime rate, but personally, I'd much prefer that someone broke into my car than shot me, if I had the choice. I suspect the same might be true in other countries similar to Canada, but wikipedia is down right now, to protest some proposed US legislation.

I've got a small collection by Texas standards. I've currently got 3 rifles, 4 pistols, and a broken shotgun. It's in the budget to buy a new over under and a .308 hunting rifle this year. I'm planning to sell the AK as well as it just doesn't get shot too often.

Well done Jager.

I've got a 12g shotgun, .357 and .38 spc. Add as money permits.

The .357 sits in my nightstand loaded - no safety. The .38 spc sits in the misses nightstand loaded - no safety. The shotgun sits under the bed on my side loaded with 4 shot. We go to the range a few times a year just for kicks.

Obviously no children.

There's a mini crime wave in my neighborhood. Three home robberies and a brand new pair of trials boots stolen off my porch - still in the UPS box. Also took a box (different day) containing new brake clevis. The sumbitch has some set of balls. I'm tempted to put a box out there and booby trap it.

Demographics my friend, demographics. Compare violent crime rates in rural Montana or suburban Connecticut to Canada and you'll find violent crime rates are comparable. Southern California, Miami and Chicago are different stories. It's not the guns, it's the people.

My Grandfather tought me to shoot at 6 in his back yard

I love hunting and i use to do Target shooting(Rifle/Pistol and shotgun) but i now lack the time for the targets

i currently have

Erma Eg73 22mag

Sportsways Italian O/U 12g

Reminton 7615

SMLE .303 sporter

and yes Australian firearms laws Suck

gatorfan wrote:

Demographics my friend, demographics. Compare violent crime rates in rural Montana or suburban Connecticut to Canada and you'll find violent crime rates are comparable. Southern California, Miami and Chicago are different stories. It's not the guns, it's the people.

If that was aimed at me, I think you need to do some more research. Toronto is one of N.America's largest cities, with a very diverse population, and one of the lowest murder rates among large cities. Vancouver, Montreal, Edmonton, Ottawa, are also pretty big and diverse, also with comparably low violent crime rates. Washington is a comparable size to Toronto with a murder rate 20 times higher. Baltimore likewise, and so on. Not sure why you'd compare rural Montana to Canada, but what the hell

Anyhow, that's enough outta me.

I don't really buy this report.. but it does present a different perspective. It seems to me from reading statistics.. which are easily juggled to make a point.. that Ca has historically had a lower homicide rate than the us. But of course, the us homicide rate would be much lower if we left out DC, LA, Chicago, etc.

But i think the point of it being people more than gun laws is a better factor. Mexico has canadian style gun laws, but they obviously don't have the same effect.

My point earlier was comparing us states.. not all countries. But there are so many variables, i don't think a statistical comparison is possible between nations. I was only pointing out the historical success of the us constitution.. the oldest active constitution in the world, and the only one i know of with a right to keep & bear arms.

Canada's Crime Rate 50 % Higher than U.S.

Press reports that Canada is a Shangri-la – an America with free health care and less crime – may be short sighted.

In fact, statistics show that the violent crime rate there is double that of the United States.

It seems Canada is looking for a scapegoat, too: Outgoing Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin is blaming the United States for his country’s violent crime wave. He says his southern neighbor is eagerly bringing guns over the border.

According to the Second Amendment Foundation’s Alan Gottlieb, writing in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, Martin is wrong for blaming Canada’s rise in violent crime on criminals smuggling guns from the United States.

Gottlieb says the blame instead belongs on Canadian crooks getting guns from wherever they can.

"Blaming the United States for Canadian crime is an argument that does not pass the smell test,” Gottlieb wrote. "Canada's experience has simply demonstrated that no matter what kind of gun control law a government passes, that law is doomed to failure because instead of keeping guns out of the wrong hands, the law disarms the wrong people. Canada's gun control scheme has not just failed - it has failed disastrously. Clear evidence of that can be found in a comparison of the crime rates for Canada and America.”

Gottlieb cites an article by Canada's National Post columnist David Frum where he revealed that "Canada's overall crime rate is now 50 percent higher than the crime rate in the United States.” Moreover, "Since the early 1990s, crime rates have dropped in 48 of the 50 states and 80 percent of American cities. Over that same period, crime rates have risen in six of the 10 Canadian provinces and in seven of Canada’s 10 biggest cities.”

He also cites the most recent complete data available from both countries that shows that in 2003, the violent crime rate in the United States was 475 per 100,000 people; while up north, there were 963 violent crimes per 100,000 people. The figure for sexual assault in Canada per 100,000 people was more than double that of the United States: 74 as opposed to 32.1; and the assault rate in Canada was also more than twice that of the states: 746 to America's 295 for the people.

Moreover, he cites research that showed the figure for sexual assault in Canada per 100,000 people was more than double that of the United States: 74 as opposed to 32.1; and the assault rate in Canada was more than twice that of the United States: 746 to America’s 295. Also, in 2005, Toronto had 78 murders; that’s a 28 percent increase in homicides since 1995.

"The situation hasn't improved for Canada; it has here,” he wrote.

"Moreover, this shift in crime rates between the two countries has occurred while dozens of U.S. states have adopted ‘right-to-carry’ and ‘shall-issue’ handgun laws. During the same period, Canada’s gun laws have gotten more restrictive, with the national gun registry being implemented,” he added.

"Since declaring war on guns under former Prime Minister Jean Chretien, Canada's Liberals have presided over the sharpest rise in violent crime in the nation’s history.”

Gottlieb wrote that "Frum put it best when he claimed, ‘Gun registration and gun bans ... do not work,’ adding later: ‘It is not guns from across the border that threaten Canadians. It is the weak and cynical policies of home-grown politicians, and especially the Chretien/Martin Liberals.’”

Martin and the Liberals are not the solution to violent crime in Canada, Gottlieb wrote. "They're the problem.”

Gottlieb concluded that "the disparity in crime rates says it all about how well gun registration works to stop crime, as opposed to actually carrying guns to deter criminals, and fighting back if necessary.Source

rydnseek wrote:

I don't really buy this report.. but it does present a different perspective. ...

Canada's Crime Rate 50 % Higher than U.S.

It seems Canada is looking for a scapegoat, too: Outgoing Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin is blaming the United States for his country’s violent crime wave....

... Also, in 2005, Toronto had 78 murders; that’s a 28 percent increase in homicides since 1995.

Source

I promised myself I'd get out of this discussion, but ...

2005? That's 7 (6?) years ago. Last year there were 47 homicides in Toronto. In Baltimore there were 196. Toronto is twice the size. Paul Martin hasn't been PM for 6 years. Old news.

I know people can manipulate statistics in lots of ways, but ...

yes - we're so wonderfully free here he have the largest per capita prison population of all....

click me


and we're pretty damn high up the list for murders too

click me

Compared to Canada - well, there is no comparison.

Chicago and DC, that is all.

I'm not sure, but living in canada and growing up , mostly, on u.s. telemedia, gives me a unique perspective...as a canadian, at least me.
I see my civil situation, as compared, to what I have been shown.
Though I agree every "sound" citizen, should hold , immediate power, like modern arms...it scares me to think that, that would arm every, pschyco/non challant, in the process.

I know many responsible people, and quite a few, less than that.

Thing is, about arming americans, it makes sense against a land invasion by china, if their allies supported them...other than that, that's the last serious threat, of a land invasion, of our time.

Since north america hasnt experianced a land invasion, since colonization, there has been allot of time to get ready.

As much as I would hate that to happen...the modern economy dictates, and only allows certain threats to be realistic.

Yes, there are many, global, unresolved, issues...but only so many, threaten a land invasion...in which a thoroughly armed public, would become useful...well before the fact.
I would hate to think, we are arming to fight ourselves...I guess that is the most realistic issue, for most of us.

So, I hope all of you who arm yourselves for security, do it well, and in the right light.

Those who use them as a trade, and way of life...will hopefully guide the rest of us in the right direction...because, there is allot of potential to go wrong...as far as I understand.

Education about firearms/weapons can't happen without experience.
Let's listen to the experienced...not those looking for experience.

Well, the US still has free speech >>> Clicky

gatorfan wrote:

Well, the US still has free speech >>> Clicky

Not to defend our current policies...but the definition of freedom and what that should entail, is the single , biggest, argument of democracy.
How "free" should an individual be, if given the chance?
At what point should society step back...and more importantly, when should we step in?
I would hope that the human race,in general, and our habitat would be our primary concern.

sturgeon wrote:

I know people can manipulate statistics in lots of ways, but ...

Yes. I think it started with somebody saying this:

sturgeon wrote:

That statistic might be true across the US, state to state, but the rate of violent crime is considerably lower here in Canada than in the US, and we have arguably more stringent gun laws. The murder rate in the US is almost 3 times that of Canada. We do have a slightly higher property crime rate, but personally, I'd much prefer that someone broke into my car than shot me, if I had the choice.

Statistics. As they tell you in your first stats class: "Figures don't lie, but liars figger".

Let's assume everyone here has at least one year of university statistics, shall we?

Quote :

Not sure why you'd compare rural Montana to Canada, but what the hell

Not sure why you'd blindly compare the US to Canada - while choosing not to extend that comparison to countries like Jamaica and Mexico as well, but what the hell?

Okay... so what do you remember being told about cross cultural comparisons in those stats classes in the past, hmmm? Then why are we doing them?

What do we remember about the difference between correlation and causation? Or to put it another way, why can Jamaica have unbelievably stringent gun laws, share no border with the US as an excuse for their crime, and have a murder rate by firearm much, much higher than the US? I mean, if the difference between Canada and the US - whatever you believe it is - is due to a causal factor involving firearms, what's the excuse with Jamaica?

Or Mexico?

So why is correlation being presented as causation for the US versus Canada, but a blind eye being turned to all the other countries with much more stringent gun laws than Canada but higher firearm murder rates than the US?

Oh yes indeed, people do manipulate statistics in many ways. Some out of simple ignorance, some deliberately.

Jeez, here's a thought: maybe there's lots of other factors at play here influencing the murder rate. Mara Salvatrucha, just one of the violent Latino street gangs, is believed to have about 30,000 members in the US - the majority of them illegal immigrants. To give that some Canadian perspective, that one violent street gang has more members than there are RCMP officers in Canada.

Take all those violent street gangs - a little over a million members in all in the US by some police estimates (and that's full members, not counting hangers-on)... think that might influence US murder rates a little with a problem that Canada doesn't have in any significant numbers?

Of course, if it's all about gun laws and accessibility to firearms, just why is it that Montana - where I can legally walk down the main street of Whitefish carrying a medium machine gun if I so choose - has a murder rate much, much lower than other US jurisdictions like Washington DC, New York, New Jersey, etc? Of course, Montana's murder rate is much lower than Canada's with it's much more stringent gun laws - but then that would be back to cross cultural comparisons, not comparing Americans to Americans, in different states with different gun laws.

I mean, if it is all about the government passing legislation about whether you can or can't own a certain kind of gun, carry a firearm for self defense (or whatever other damned reason that isn't anybody else's business)... then why is it that all the gun grabber states (some with legislation stricter than Canada) don't have murder rates as low as Canada Montana?

Here's another interesting US statistic to add more context - from peer reviewed research in a refereed journal. There are between 2.5 and 3 million defensive uses of firearms in the US each year. In less than 1% of those events is even a warning shot fired. So if we do the math and compare those to criminal firearms deaths each year, we find that if even just 1 in a 100 defensive uses of a firearm saves the person under attack, that's more than the total criminal firearms deaths. Just 1 in 100.

For a lot of myopic Canadians (and Europeans) it's simple: US crime rates are because of firearms, and if they simply adopted laws like Canada, England, etc, then all would be well. Well, as Jamaica, Mexico, et al show, that is a simplistic belief not borne out by real life.