WR250X R&D

My name is Kasey Coleman. I am the owner/operator of a small ATV/dirt bike performance shop located in Texas.

Last month I was involved in a wreck, which has placed a extra burden on my finances. So, I have taken on a second full time job and am seriously considering a 250X for my commuter. I am getting it for it's great fuel mileage a long with a few other things.

One of the first things I will be doing is a stroker kit. Almost immediately after I purchase it. I will also explore other cam profiles and some P&P of the head. I am going to raise the compression to a little over 12:1. This is keeping it very content using 93 Octane and will burn fuel more efficiently. I am going to be striving for a greater fuel mileage increase rather than power increase. Obviously, they will have a lot to do with each other.

I am interested in selling my finished product(s) to members of the forum. This will help fund my R&D as I will not have much time after the second job and still have engines for customers that have to be done.

So after all of this my question to you is how many would be interested? How to I become a vendor for the site?


Thanks in advance for any info,

Kasey

The "great fuel mileage" aspect of the X is sort of relative.


It does not get 71 mpg as advertised for many MANY people.

I get better mileage with my X than my Honda Civic, but I'm in the 50-55mpg range.

Looking forward to reading about your project and how things turn out.

Thanks for the reply.

Even at 50 mpg it is still better than my 6.6L Duramax By a little at least.

I am very satisfied with 60mpg, but I can't see my self riding a pig. As long as I can keep the MPG up a long with the reliability, I will give it as much added power as I can. I am looking at about 2-3 weeks before I get mine. As of yet I have not had one of the engines come in, so I will have to wait until then to do some r&d.

I am surprised these bike are not more common where I am. Every one has to commute to have a good job.

But it's not a commuter bike.

It's not a highway bike.

What kind of mpg increase you hoping to get?

motokid wrote:

But it's not a commuter bike.

It's not a highway bike.

What kind of mpg increase you hoping to get?

I'm looking for "increased" mpg. I know I said I am tuning for MPG, but a better way to phrase it is I am tuning for power with increased MPG.

The more power the bike has, the higher you can gear it. Thus the same speed at lower RPM = better fuel mileage.

And why do you say it's not a hi-way bike? I have read many people use it for long commutes to work. Because its uncomfortable? Slow? Bad MPG? Why?

What is the problem with having more options for the bike? No one said you had to be into the stuff. But there is going to be other options for those who would do.

I commute, on the highway, everyday on my WRR. I get between 62-67mpg depending on how I ride it. I ride around 65-70mph while on the highway most days. Sometimes slower, sometimes a little faster.

Never said there was a problem with having more options.

By "commuting" - how may miles you talking about?

How many miles on a freeway? Superslab?

I use my X as a "commuter" but it's all back roads and twisty stuff and I go anywhere from 5 to 10 miles each direction depending on which job I go to.

If I was running 20-30 miles one way on a freeway in dense traffic I'd not want the X for that.

To me the term commute means traveling a un-normal distance regularly.
30+ Miles each way. Maybe more, or less for you depending on how large the town/city is you live in.

This is more of a necessity for me to actually make a good profit from working at such a distance. Having what I hope to achieve I can get there quicker If I would like and still have as good or better than stock fuel mileage.

The reason I started this thread was to see who all would be interested in upgrading there wrr/x in performance. Simple as that.

kcabbie wrote:

To me the term commute means traveling a un-normal distance regularly.
30+ Miles each way.

The reason I started this thread was to see who all would be interested in upgrading there wrr/x in performance. Simple as that.

You do understand that this is a 250 right? Not sure how much more "preformance/power" you're going to get while getting "better" fuel economy. I commute 30 miles round trip to work each day. I ride stop and go the way in and Hwy (about 8 miles) the way home. I understand mpg is important to some but like Kid said, even modded out where still pulling 50+mpg when riding like...well, not so fuel efficient minded. I'm avg about 60-65. I'd say the overwhelming majority of members of this site are satisfied with the mpg their getting and would sacrifice some of that, like I would, for better "preformance." If you want to come on here and tell us that you have a way to increase preformance over what has "already" been done then we're all ears. If your going to try and tell us that you can get better than "stock" MPG with "modded like" preformance then....I hate to say it but....but I'll believe it when

Alright alright, If someone want's to delete this thread please do.

I started this thread to "see who would be interested in adding some power to there bike"

Not to discuss if it is possible, not to ask opinions, and certainly not to ask of someones approval.

If you do not have interest the gtfo the thread people. Am I saying "Hey, I have this product it will make you have 10x the power and 50x the mpg!"
NO.

I am saying I AM going to find ways to increase power. You can take this and do with what you will. If you want it to get better fuel milage, then do it. If you want to pull wheelies a lot easier, then do that.

Swagger- You act like I think I'm going to revolutionize the way these things perform, and its a horrible thing. As others have stated, no one even makes after market cams! Do you know anything about building a good performing engine? A good cam profile is a pretty MAJOR part in that.

Do you think the stuff I put in my bikes is "kits" that other companies sell? How do you think they get them??

Sorry to be a prick, This has became a discussion about things nothing to do with what I asked.

"Who will be interested in increased power from there bike?"

kcabbie wrote:

I am going to be striving for a greater fuel mileage increase rather than power increase

Hmmm, but then you said:

kcabbie wrote:

I started this thread to "see who would be interested in adding some power to there bike"

Not to discuss if it is possible, not to ask opinions, and certainly not to ask of someones approval.

I am saying I AM going to find ways to increase power. You can take this and do with what you will. If you want it to get better fuel milage, then do it. If you want to pull wheelies a lot easier, then do that.

Swagger- You act like I think I'm going to revolutionize the way these things perform, and its a horrible thing. As others have stated, no one even makes after market cams! Do you know anything about building a good performing engine? A good cam profile is a pretty MAJOR part in that.

Do you think the stuff I put in my bikes is "kits" that other companies sell? How do you think they get them??

Sorry to be a prick, This has became a discussion about things nothing to do with what I asked.

"Who will be interested in increased power from there bike?"

kcabbie wrote:

Sorry to be a prick, This has became a discussion about things nothing to do with what I asked.

You're saying two different things in different posts. Which is it? Power or "GREATER FUEL MILEAGE RATHER THAN PREFORMANCE."

Preformance will get myself and this forum going and I'm excited we have someone of your engine building caliber thats going to revolutionize the WR world!

"

kcabbie wrote:

Who will be interested in increased power from there bike?"

ME!!!!!

I am sorry for my confusing post.

I want fuel mileage. I am going to use power to achieve that. Meaning I have to get power to get the fuel mileage, weather it is horsepower or torque. It will be totally up to the owner of the bike how they want there wr setup. If they want mileage they will have to use taller gearing. [b]

I think most people on the board would like a little more within reason. Hell, people always want more, even if they ride a turbo 'busa. If you offered more power with the same reliability at similar or better economy that didnt cost the earth you would generate a lot of interest.

Better MPG ? Lower the suspenders and put a fairing on it and see what happens, I bet that would give better MPG and top speed !

Don't be so freakin sensitive dude. It's a discussion forum. The discussions tend to go many places.

We ALL want more power. Read around the forum. There's shitloads of threads about programmers, pipes, and mods to get more power.

There's also a shitton of threads about gas mileage.

Prove you have something worthy and maybe people will sign up for it.

Lots of us have already spent 500-1000 dollars on making the wr250x/r become a "better" bike.


If you can prove that you can increase power (dyno-runs and graphs) while also increasing mpg, and do that within some reasonable price range I'm sure you'll sell some stuff.


I question if you can actually accomplish what your goals are, but I'm more than willing to follow your project. I doubt I'd buy anything from you though.
I'm pretty happy with my X as I've got it now, and throwing another couple a hundred dollars at it for a few more mpg's isn't that attractive to me.

I'm pretty sure you won't be able to get more power, and better mpg's at any cost under $500.

Do you have some idea of what your intended products might cost?
What those products might be?
Exactly what kind of gains a client might be able to expect?

What you've mentioned is still too vague to get much buy-in from where I sit.

At freeway commuting speeds wind resistance is a huge barrier.

Those that seek better gas mileage can alter their throttle hand usage. One guy here hyper-miled his X to 102 mpg.
Some people here already get in the 70-80mpg range.


Other's sportbike the hell out of their X and don't really fuss over mpg's and get 50-60 mpg.


So without a lot more detail about what you intend to do and what the actual results are and what the costs are I think you're going to struggle to get a lot of people signing up for your stuff. Especially without some data and real numbers to back up what you intend to do.

That doesn't mean we're not interested is hearing about it though.

Monkeynuts wrote:

Better MPG ? Lower the suspenders and put a fairing on it and see what happens, I bet that would give better MPG and top speed !

Mythbusters.....

Sexy Must get myself one of those, it will keep the flys out of my teeth

I'd think it would be interesting to see the possibility of power & mileage improvement outside the normal bolt-on accessories currently available. It appears most of the negative posts are based off only mods already known for the WR. I can see you are planning to try other methods (outside the box) of making the engine more efficient through internal design modifications making small changes here & there to see what gets the best results, thus the R&D. I understand the concept from the engineering side because automakers go through the same process constantly to get better mileage & power from their engines. A good example would be looking at a typical v8 engine from the 70's & now we have 4cyl. engines that make equal or more power with better mileage. As for the cost for the final product, everyone should realize that you can't throw a number out until the R&D is done due to unknowns that may pop up during the process & the original post was to see how much interest there would be to decide if it was worth the time to pursue the project.

Costs can be guesstimated.

A business plan and any project that's detailed out would have some basic idea of costs and fees.

R&D costs are mostly time.


There should still be a plan that says with mods X,Y & Z we hope to achieve an end result of m horsepower gains which may translate into w mpg gains and a end cost of h for the customer.

It's a project goal that's not carved in stone but something to kind of reign in the project from getting too out of control.

12:1 isn't worth the time it would take to install. Something like 13.5:1 or 14:1 might make a difference on mileage (and probably be ok on 92 or 93 octane). BTW, the stock 11.8:1 will actually run on low grade gas so if saving money is your goal stock might be the best bet. You wont increase the mileage enough to cancel out the lower price of the lower grade gas. Also, a cam might improve highway cruising mileage a bit if its the right grind, but since we have to use so much of our rev range across the various speeds, you would pay for at lower speeds as opposed to what you could get with the piston alone.
Porting? probably be to expensive for what most people considering the man hours it would take. Not sure how much there is there to find either, be a roll of the dice. Could be a lot of hidden potential or the stockers could be darn near perfect. Never know with the japanese.

Engineers always leave some potential for the following year of production so they have something "NEW" to put on the market. Otherwise they wouldn't have anything to sell you when you get tired of your old ride. They have most of the upgrading planned years ahead & release more power or better features a little at a time until it's time for a new design. We've all seen the technology slowly improve on suspension & engine design in the last 10-15 years on most bikes. Again with cars, the same engine will have a few more horses added each year till they design a new engine & start the process again. Guys like Kcabbie are trying to tap the potential that the engineers have hidden within ahead of time. Race teams do the same thing with the factory stuff.

Frankly I think that it will be difficult for a single person to make any significant changes. Yamaha probably has dozens of engineers working full time on a motor like this, with many resources available to them. I'm not judging your skill or anything like that, but I think the motor is already fairly optimized as it is. To get more out if it costs will probably sky rocket or you will lose performance in certain areas of the rpm range just to gain somewhere else.

Plus increased power + increased fuel economy are words that usually don't go together very well.

Why don't you look at scooter for commuting? Better fuel economy than a wrr and buying price is a whole lot cheaper (just sayin since you low on finances). After all it sounds like this is what you are trying to achieve, not more power for better/harder acceleration, but more power for sustaining higher speeds easier, and frankly I don't think that many users here are looking for a performance mod like that, that would loose them pep down low/acceleration. A scooter is the way to go


edit: @sswrx

there surely is extra potential in the engine (just look at the performance increase some simple mods bring (fuel programmer, opening up the air box etc)) but these all bring with them an INCREASE in fuel consumption, not a DECREASE. if OP just wanted to increase power without looking at mpg, I would say go for it!, if the OP is looking at ways to increase mpg by dropping down a bit the power, I would say go for it!, but doing both things at once is going to be difficult for a single man with limited resources, (and who is trying to keep costs down as otherwise no one would buy his mod).

oic0 wrote:

12:1 isn't worth the time it would take to install. Something like 13.5:1 or 14:1 might make a difference on mileage (and probably be ok on 92 or 93 octane). BTW, the stock 11.8:1 will actually run on low grade gas so if saving money is your goal stock might be the best bet. You wont increase the mileage enough to cancel out the lower price of the lower grade gas. Also, a cam might improve highway cruising mileage a bit if its the right grind, but since we have to use so much of our rev range across the various speeds, you would pay for at lower speeds as opposed to what you could get with the piston alone.
Porting? probably be to expensive for what most people considering the man hours it would take. Not sure how much there is there to find either, be a roll of the dice. Could be a lot of hidden potential or the stockers could be darn near perfect. Never know with the japanese.

Right. You also have to consider this:


For $500-$600 you can get an aftermarket pipe, fuel programmer, and some gearing. Then throw in the airbox mods and most people get 3-5 extra horsepower from stock. That's without changing any internal anything in the engine or changing the maintenance intervals.


Would the price-point of the R&D Project parts come in somewhere between $500 and $1000? Which also includes opening up the engine?

Would the R&D Project require an efi programmer and after market pipe too? So added cost to what most of us have already spent?

Would the maintenance intervals increase?

If the end result of the project shows a 8 horsepower gain over stock for under $1000 I'm sure people might go for it.
If the end result is 5 horsepower at $1000 I already come close to that with what I already have.


So much depends on the details.


Do we all want more power? 100% absolutely YES.

At what cost?
That's the big question. There's a reason most of us are not going out and buying Turbo kits or Big-bore kits.

Well I'm looking forward to hearing another report on a stroker kit. In the next year or so I plan to install a stroker kit and a larger piston so any reports I can read between now and then is a plus.

bigg wrote:

Frankly I think that it will be difficult for a single person to make any significant changes. Yamaha probably has dozens of engineers working full time on a motor like this, with many resources available to them. I'm not judging your skill or anything like that, but I think the motor is already fairly optimized as it is. To get more out if it costs will probably sky rocket or you will lose performance in certain areas of the rpm range just to gain somewhere else.

Plus increased power + increased fuel economy are words that usually don't go together very well.

Why don't you look at scooter for commuting? Better fuel economy than a wrr and buying price is a whole lot cheaper (just sayin since you low on finances). After all it sounds like this is what you are trying to achieve, not more power for better/harder acceleration, but more power for sustaining higher speeds easier, and frankly I don't think that many users here are looking for a performance mod like that, that would loose them pep down low/acceleration. A scooter is the way to go


edit: @sswrx

there surely is extra potential in the engine (just look at the performance increase some simple mods bring (fuel programmer, opening up the air box etc)) but these all bring with them an INCREASE in fuel consumption, not a DECREASE. if OP just wanted to increase power without looking at mpg, I would say go for it!, if the OP is looking at ways to increase mpg by dropping down a bit the power, I would say go for it!, but doing both things at once is going to be difficult for a single man with limited resources, (and who is trying to keep costs down as otherwise no one would buy his mod).

You have no idea where these big company's get there biggest advancements in there industry. I can guarantee you there has been THOUSANDS of achievements by engine builders(not engineers) that have been recognized by the big guys and put into production. They go as far as making contracts with these builders to find them more/better ways to do many different things inside the engines.