battery not charging

my battery is going dead on rides. holds a charge from the tender just fine but once i fire it up and go for a ride the battery gets sapped. my friend seems to think its a stator or regulator rectifier issue. i'm somewhat mechanically inclined but electrical systems are a foreign language to me. i tried searching on here and advrider but to no avail so sorry if this is a common fix.

TIA

Hey mate i'm surprised that with your battery running down so low that it's not logging error code 46. ( Engine check light coming on to signal the presence of such error code ). I actually just had this happen to me a few days ago, when i was just cruising along & then the engine check light came on & off a few times.... Anyway i then used the DIAG function on the bike to check into the fault codes - which in my case came up as DTC 46 = "Vehicle System Power Supply". I found my actual problem pretty quickly by starting at the basics - which lead me to find & rectify the minor problem. So lucky for me it was just a simple case that the negative battery terminal on my battery had come just slightly loose. ( It had been a little slower than usual on crank over the previous couple of weeks - but i had just put it down to the many short stop & start runs.....but obviously now the reason why was because of the poor connection at that terminal ). Anyway i found this straight away when first going to the battery to check the charge rate - so all too easy in my case.


So i suppose the best place to start for your diagnosis is at the battery for charge rate with engine running. You will then quickly know if you have a genuine charging problem or not. So you really just need to start off with a basic auto multi-meter / volt meter. Then depending on your findings here as to the next basic steps. If charge rate is ok, then you need to look at either the actual battery itself - such as remove & full "bench" charge, then load test the battery. Also to double check all battery terminals and associated electrical connections. ( As stated in my very recent case, just a slightly loose battery terminal was enough to cause charging problems ).


If you find that there is no charge rate with engine running / at idle, then it could indicate a much more complex problem, with more technical diagnosis....but in saying this there will still be a few basics that you will need to cover - such as checking the main power fuse, along with all fuse's just to be sure of covering all basic's. Again just need a simple multi-meter or even a basic 12 volt test light. ( Visual inspection of fuses as well - but test light is best ). If all ok here in regards to fuses, but still no charge rate & with a definate fully charged, tested & known good battery, then you will need to go further into checking the voltage regulator / rectifier & the output of the actual stator itself.....


Anyway i have copied & attached the below link from another bike forum - hope they don't mind. It has some very good info as well as testing procedures that relate directly to the WR250R/X in regards to charging system faults. ( Which logged error code 46 as well ).


Not sure if you had already found this below thread in your search....but just remember to check the basics first in regards to battery condition & full charge + load test. Check running charge rate. Also check all terminals & connections + all fuses etc.


http://www.supermotojunkie.com/showthread.php?124245-WR250X-error-code-46


Anyway use all of the above info as needed & let us know what you find,


Cheers, Gavin.

thanks so much gavin for the info. i forgot to mention that i am indeed getting an error code 46.

after reviewing that supermotojunkie thread, i have a feeling i might just have a bad battery. i'd like to find out for sure but i don't want to go buy and new battery and than ruin that one if there's something in my electrical system draining my battery. apologies if i'm off-base here but i'm really bad with electrical systems.

my friend's motorcycle (wr250f) fully charged my battery when we swapped so i could get back to the trailhead. the bike sat for about a week and i monitored the battery with a multi-meter during that time without a drop in amperage (it sat at about 12.45 the whole week). i went and fired it up and let it idle for a minute and that dropped the battery a little. yesterday i went on a short sub-five mile ride. it stayed running the whole time just fine but when i shut it down to close a gate, it gave me the error 46 and wouldn't start. i walked the bike back to the house and took a reading and it was 11.something, i can't remember exactly. put the tender on it and it fired up again.

i should note that this is the first time i've used a mulit-meter. my friend loaned me his and gave me a little instruction on how to use it. i switch it to DCV 20 and take the reading. i might be using it wrong but i am pretty certain that the battery is simply not charging during a ride. i see this as an opportunity to become better acquainted with the somewhat complex electrical system of the bike.

i should also note that i've done some of the usual mods to the bike, exup removal, airbox flapper, etc. i've also removed the kickstand and the kickstand "safety switch" due to one of the bolts repeatedly stripping out. i may have done some shoddy wiring in doing those mods. for some reason, i think the kickstand switch might be part of the issue.

cheers.

edit: now that i think about it, we rode much farther than i did yesterday to get back to the trailhead after swapping batteries with my buddy's wrf, and when i got back to the trailhead his battery still fired my bike right up like it hadn't lost any juice so now i'm thinking it's definitely a bad battery. it got abnormally cold here in the desert this winter so that may have ruined the battery.

guess i'll suck it up and get a new one. i'll post up with whether or not that was the fix.

Ok, thanks for the extra info - so in relation to code 46, did you also carry out mode 62 to clear the code ?


Also when you say you have checked the battery voltage with the multi-meter, have you checked it with the engine running etc ?
At idle my charge rate at the battery was approx 13.7v - so this indicates all ok & normal charge rate. ( In actual fact even with some rev's the charge rate stayed around 13.7v, as the regulator pretty much will have it pegged there, so all good ).

Anyway please confirm your charge rate at the battery with engine running / at idle. This will tell us straight away if it's good or bad. This will then give you the basis for the next diagnostic steps - such as a likely battery problem or otherwise. Also if you remove the battery then you can take it to a decent battery outlet store to be properly load tested - this will indicate if good or bad, as in something like a faulty cell dropping out under load.



Will await your reply in relation to above questions.


Cheers.

ok, so i just took a reading and got 12.5v with it not running and 12.0v idling. i don't think i've gotten anywhere near 13v on this battery even coming right off the tender.

i'm embarrassed to admit i don't know what "mode 62" but the error 46 code clears once i re-charge the battery, of course.

i thought that the unusually cold winter we had may have zapped the battery but i was having issues back in the fall before the cold temps (little occasional bogs).

thanks for all your help, gt-250.

Ok, with those results you definately have a charging problem. ( It is only showing the battery voltage when running = no further input voltage from the bike's charging system. The shown voltage at the battery is less when running due to the ignition power drawing that further 0.5v from the 'base" battery voltage ).


So your next step is to start at the basic's again - by checking for power across both sides of all fuses. At least with a test light - but more accurate with a volt meter. If all ok here then you will be looking "further" back towards the Reg/Rec & actual output of the Stator. ( These are the test procedures as listed in that previous "supermotojunkie" thread link, so that is your best guide ).


If you cover the basic fuses & they are all ok, but you are not then confident enough to carry out the further testing, then you could just take the gamble and hope for the best on purchasing a new Reg/Rec. ( As this is the much "cheaper" option than the otherwise possible problem with the actual stator itself. Also the Reg/Rec is easy to access & a simple "bolt off / Bolt on" propersition ).


Also as for the "mode 62" = this is the function in the Diagnostic mode to enable clearing of the DTC. As you already must know how to access Diag mode to read the fault codes, which is by selecting mode 61, then it's just a matter of selecting the next mode past "61". So once you go to mode 62, then just need to switch "on" the red "kill switch" on your right side handlebar - this should then clear the shown fault code to "0". ( So when 1st going into Diag mode with ignition key on, make sure that the red engine kill switch is in the "off" position )..... Anyway, i had previously found a good "thread" on this mode 61 / 62 "somewhere" on a web search, so if the above is not explained in clear enough terms & you get stuck - then i will try to again find the info & "link" it onto here. ( In any case this is not really a priority at this stage, as your main focus of concern will be on correct diagnosis & repair of the charging system fault ).


Anyway hope some of the above info can further assist you. Please keep us informed of any further progress, and let me know if you have any more questions.


Cheers.

gt-250, thank you so much for helping me out with this. hopefully, i'll get my yardwork chores done today and can get at the bike again later in the afternoon.

i think i already checked all the fuses but i'm going to check them again. i have a feeling that it is a reg/rec issue since my symptoms are virtually identical to the guy's in the supermotojunkie thread. he said that heat usually kills the reg/rec so that's increased my suspicions.

i'll post up with my findings.

cheers

quick (dumb) question, am i supposed to test the wires with the coupler detatched from the rec/reg? because i can't get any readings with the coupler attached.

G'day again mate. I'd say that to check those 3 wires that go into the Reg/Rec from the stator you would / should be able to test with the plug dis-connected. Also as per the supermotojunkie thread, don't forget to have the volt-meter set to the AC reading. So you can check this stator output first - but then to further check the Regulated output DC voltage, you would have to check this obviously with the connection pugged in. ( Anyway, check the stator output first with the plug dis-connected to see what you get - if you have the good readings as per the spec's listed in SMJ thread, then you can pretty much say that it will have to be the Re/Rec assembly ). The only reason i could think of that might be a problem when checking those 3 wires with the plug dis-connected would be if it needs to be plugged in to "keep" the earth circuit.... but without looking at it, i can not say for sure - and it's not clear to confirm this possibility on that SMJ thread ?. In any case it won't hurt or cause any further damage to just go ahead & check those stator wires with the Regulator un-plugged. Then we can see what you've got & go from there. ( If your fuse's are confirmed as all ok - then my money would be on that Reg/Rec being the fault - so hopefully you get the correct readings from the stator to help confirm ).


Also in relation to the heat being a possible factor, i would not agree 100% with that - at least in the case of old mate on SMJ. In that case, and possibly even for your bike, i would also more likely suspect that by continuing to run the bike with a "dead" battery that this could possibly cause an overload / voltage spike type condition that can destroy the relatively "fragile" internals of the voltage Regulator / Rectifier. As a Qualified Auto Tech, this concept is nothing new to me, as i have seen it occur previously over the years, mainly with the "old school" external voltage Regulators that many vehicles also were eqquipped with right up to the 90's etc. ( Most newer vehicles now have the voltage Reg/Rec built into the actual alternator itself - and they are also the most common component to fail in relation to the charging system ).


Anyway hope that you get that spare time to check further into the problem later on today. I will await your reply on the findings.


Cheers.

ok, so at least i was doing it right. here's what i got:

battery reads 11.5v at idle (DC)

AC

red and blue wires: 21.4v

white 1 + 2: 8.9v
white 1 + 3: 8.7v
white 2 + 3: 0.1v

had to put the battery back on the tender since i've drained it doing these tests already, haha. i've got a meeting to go to but i'll check it again when i get home. i'm already pretty sure i'm buying another reg/rec but might as well keep checking just in case. thanks again, gt-250 for your patience.

it appears one of your stator windings may be out....do a resistance test on each of your white pairs (with the stator unplugged and bike off)...each pair should be less than 1 ohm...

thanks fuzzy. i'll check it out.

meanwhile, i found this thread...

https://wr250rforum.forumotion.com/t5933-charging-system

looks like i might be replacing the stator as well.

is there a way to have the reg/rec tested to see if it's bad? someone in the above thread mentioned that if there's any fused wires in the reg/rec that it would fry the stator. i don't want to replace the stator and fry it again because the reg/rec is bad. i'll probably get my battery tested too just for good measure.

i'll post up my resistance test findings later. i think they'll be similar to the guy's numbers in the other thread, with the white wires 2 + 3 showing low ohms.

Quote :

Specification .168 to .252

resistance test results (Ω x 200)

the first two sets of white wires jumped around a lot, with 2+3 staying pretty steady at 2.6

1+2: 2.9 - 4.5
1+3: 3.5 - 7.2
2+3: 2.6

i suppose my next step is to visually inspect the stator?

re: testing the reg/rec. the service manual says to measure DC voltage while engine runs at 5000 r/min. i don't have a tach so i can't do this test. i think my service manual has the wrong drawing for testing the reg/rec (it shows to test the battery) but i'm assuming you test the red and black on the coupler. not sure if this has been revised in the manual, mine's a few years old.

i'm not sure you'll find anything visually...you've already done the output test: voltage at the battery when running, which was NOT 14 volts...inspect your main fuse at the starter relay (30 A), that's the only fuse that prevents charging...if it's good (or you have continuity from the red wire at Reg/Rec to battery) then the only thing that will screw with the Reg/Rec is the input: the stator...there is no test for the voltage regulator except output, that's why you test the stator first...your stator resistance test fails according to the shop manual...

fuses are good, i double checked them hoping that i missed a bad one. no such luck. seems like i'm pretty much replacing the stator at this point.

thanks for the help you guys. this has been a good learning experience for me.