Oil, oil and more oil

Quick question. I have only changed my oil once since purchasing the bike used with 3,700 miles on it. I switched to full synthetic but did not change the filter from conventional oil. Now, is it okay to use a synthetic blend or do i need to stay full synthetic if I change my filter also?

If you change your oil type you should change your filter, regardless. Changing the filter every other time is fine if you are running the same type of oil, but when you are say, running a dino oil, and switch to synthetic, you should change the filter at the same time. Going from a synthetic to a semi synthetic won't hurt the bike, but I'd be changing that filter this time around.

I know I'm a bloody raging hypocrite on certain things, but why oh why on earth would you change the oil and NOT change the filter?

Look how damn small that thing is.

Unless you are changing oil every 500 miles - like some of the "nutters" around here

I can't for the life on me understand why you would not replace the filter every time you change oil.

I honestly don't care what the owners manual says.

You change oil because it's dirty or old. That means the filter is dirty or old as well.

Change both.

Do you take a shower, clean your body, then put back on the dirty clothes you took off? Underwear and all?

motokid wrote:

...I can't for the life on me understand why you would not replace the filter every time you change oil.
You change oil because it's dirty or old. That means the filter is dirty or old as well.

Nope. If your oil is "old", that does not necessarily mean your filter is dirty or old (beyond service life). It very well might have plenty of filtering life left. The oil also may not be "dirty", just "old" in the sense that it starts to break down and does it's lubricating job less well. How dirty your oil gets vs. how well used (old) it gets depends a lot on the terrain you ride. Dusty, deep water crossings, etc. all play a part in contaminating the oil vs. it just breaking down from use. So I consider dirty and old two separate and largely unrelated conditions with one (dirty) impacting the oil filter life and one not so much (old).

I change the oil every 1,000 - 1,500 miles depending on riding conditions and the filter every other oil change. Summer time dust may have me changing the filter with each oil change while the rest of the year's riding I change it every other (I put on about 6,000 miles a year on this bike).

SheWolf wrote:

If you change your oil type you should change your filter, regardless. Changing the filter every other time is fine if you are running the same type of oil, but when you are say, running a dino oil, and switch to synthetic, you should change the filter at the same time. Going from a synthetic to a semi synthetic won't hurt the bike, but I'd be changing that filter this time around.

Yeah, changing it this time. Just changed oil quick after I picked up the bike. Thanks

Any combination of full Synthetics, blends, and/or dino oil are all compatible with one another as are various brands mixed together (when doing a change without changing the filter or just topping off a vehicle). There is no reason to change the filter if your only reason is oil compatibility. After all, a synthetic blend is just that. If they weren't compatible, there wouldn't be such a thing as the blends (synthetic/dino combos) in one bottle.

I love discussions like these...


But seriously... for all of you who spend $4-$6K on a precisely engineered machine and choose to either not run Synthetics or not change the oil filter with every oil change... I will never understand you.

Interesting term "blend".
Have asked several suppliers about the % of dino/syn mixtures. Seems no one knows.
That means "blend" can mean 1% or even less of syn & 99% asphalt or commonly called dino.
Would be interesting to learn the truth about these "blends" of oils.

For the record I use syn & change filters everyother change.
Not because I'm cheap nor lazy. Only because I just don't believe out filters are anywhere near 10% used up.
I do believe certain filters are fare inferior to others commonly on the open market.
Only time I might replace a filter before the next change is if I am planning a long hard ride for thousands of miles beyond my normally desired change of oil.

You know we can really piss of a lot of possible friends over oil & filter discussions.

Suggest we allow those who want to do what ever do so & not get to excited about what is being done.....unless they do it to your bike.

Suggestions are all great & most can learn form but bikes seem to keep right on making dust down the same roads as the pampered putt putts.

Oil pressure is my concern when using a oil filter to long.

An over used filter may even filter better than a new filter but then what happens to the oil pressure?!?!

Same as w/ some air filters. Air intake suffers greatly & mpg goes down.

I've a bmw & those dealers are real pains about maintance & warrenties, yet still they have longer than usual milage & time between their suggested schedules for filters etc.

Well, since I run currently run synthetic in every engine I own, I agree with Mr. Metal...on one hand. But on the other, even all the years I ran dino oil (and that was back before the advanced oil additives of today), I have never owned an engine that failed or wore out due to the oil; Even autos with hundreds of thousands of miles on them. Though bikes with wet clutches are far more demanding on oil, there are many bike owners that put 50,000 - 100,000 miles on a bike running dino oil.

For me, the real reason I run synthetic is the extra margin of safety. If I'm in a situation where the heat buildup is excessive or I'm on a long trip and, for some unseen reason, I don't get to an oil change in a timely manner, etc. that is where a synthetic is important to me.

I seem to run across example after example of folks sending both synthetic and dino oil to labs when they've removed it from bikes and cars under the suggested maintenance schedule and the oil, though it looks dirty and used up, tested to be in quite good shape and could have remained in service. Such are the additive packages in today's modern oil (dino and synthetic). That is mainly in street use, however, so the dusty environment, in which many of us use our bikes, needs to be considered and that means oil changes more often than if used only on the street. Note that environmental contamination would be the same whether the oil is dino or synthetic and the argument could be made that changing the oil two or three times more often with dino oil is actually easier on an offroad engine than changing it once with synthetic though the two methods would cost about the same.

Chadx wrote:

all the years I ran dino oil (and that was back before the advanced oil additives of today), I have never owned an engine that failed or wore out due to the oil; Even autos with hundreds of thousands of miles on them. Though bikes with wet clutches are far more demanding on oil, there are many bike owners that put 50,000 - 100,000 miles on a bike running dino oil.

Nicely put, Chad, agreed 100%. I run a semi, but I'll run whatever I can get the oil at a good price as long as it's within spec.

Rotella synthetic is so cheap at Wally World that it almost makes the oil discussion redonkulous. Particularly with little engines like ours that take so little. Christ, you can spend more on coffee at Timmies or whatever in a day than what an oil change will cost you using Rotella or any similar oil.

I change my oil about every 1500 miles (or less). Changing oil may be argued to be unnecessary at that particular point, but it can never be a bad thing for the engine.

Extra margin of motor safety works for me.

Wow, what a long thread!!
Couple of questions:
How long would you keep the bike for? Couple of years maybe? How many miles? 15,000 perhaps? So, regular oil changes as per instruction manual (3,000 miles), using either Yamalube or similar price branded oil to same specification surely should suffice. I agree there are probably those that ride these machines beyond Yamaha recommended limits, & therefore 'better' oil should be used, & possibly more regularly, but for us mere mortals, standard servicing should be OK......
Also, how long does it take for engine oil to 'break down'? I am sure there is a safety factor built in - maybe twice (??????) the actual longevity stated???

Rotella T meets the JASO specification that Yamaha requires... www.rotella.com; hard to imagine that an oil that is used by millions of diesel trucks with 12+:1 compression and turbos is not perfect for a moto engine. $12/gallon at Wally World.

I'm running Wolf's Head 15/40 which is also a diesel oil. It's cheaper than the Rotella by far and is just as good.

I don't think all synthetics are equal, but then again I'm the dude who actually gets his oil analyzed by professional labs. I run Total Quartz Energy (Elf) in my TDI, and I've been running Amsoil in my bikes for ever. Both are pretty much top of the line in my book, and I have no reason to try anything else. Then again, I have an aversion to anything that's carried by Wallmart or any other big chain store. In the end, the only thing that matters is that we all sleep well at night

SheWolf wrote:

I'm running Wolf's Head 15/40 which is also a diesel oil. It's cheaper than the Rotella by far and is just as good.

Never heard of that brand... where do you get it?

Mr.Metal wrote:

I don't think all synthetics are equal, but then again I'm the dude who actually gets his oil analyzed by professional labs. I run Total Quartz Energy (Elf) in my TDI, and I've been running Amsoil in my bikes for ever. Both are pretty much top of the line in my book, and I have no reason to try anything else. Then again, I have an aversion to anything that's carried by Wallmart or any other big chain store. In the end, the only thing that matters is that we all sleep well at night

Wally World is the only place to buy gallon sized containers within 80 miles of here... I've always been curious about oil analysis... what data do you get? Is it expensive? Can I ship a sample to a lab? How much difference do you see between oils when used in a routine way in a stock engine?

Short Story on hi-end oils & AT's: When RR was deciding on a new AT for their cars (this was back in the 80's), they bought some GM trannys... they took them apart and noticed that the oil was not really "hi-end" oil and that there were many oil passageways with sharp edges that had not been deburred or polished. So, they took a few trannys and "improved" them, polished the passageways and whatnot... only to find out that when re-assembled and filled with hi-grade AT fluid, the transmission failed to perform as well as the "stock" version. Noticably worse. The shift points were different, the slippage was higher, the transmission was not as smooth... stuff like that. Come to find out, GM actually knew what they were doing and had optimized the AT for the manfuacturing processes used at the AT plant.

Higher priced oil and smooth advertising is not always an improvement, IMHO. Lots of people swear by Amsoil, pay 3-10X's extra for it, but I would be shocked if they see massive improvements in stock engines used in a routine way. Harley markets a "Harley Brand" of oil... $8-9/qt. Someone ask a HD Tech Rep at the Sturgis rally... what do I do if I'm in Mexico, Africa or some place that doesn't sell or offer HD oil? He said, "find the best diesel truck oil available and use that, it doesn't make that much difference." do tell?

Oil and motos seems to be more witch craft and marketing than real engineering.... IMHO....LOL.

I got my oil at the truck shop I get my parts at. I also get oil analyzed thru Finning (Caterpillar). It shows up the slightest amount of wear so it's a good indication if something is starting to go and you can catch it before it flies apart...hopefully. The best oil out there so far (at least diesel wise, fuel consumption, wear, soot, etc) is the Chevron Delo 400 15/40. Sadly we can't run that in our bikes or I'd be using that in a heartbeat.

SheWolf wrote:

The best oil out there so far (at least diesel wise, fuel consumption, wear, soot, etc) is the Chevron Delo 400 15/40. Sadly we can't run that in our bikes or I'd be using that in a heartbeat.

por que? additives mess up the clutch?

Chadx wrote:

Nope. If your oil is "old", that does not necessarily mean your filter is dirty or old (beyond service life). It very well might have plenty of filtering life left. The oil also may not be "dirty", just "old" in the sense that it starts to break down and does it's lubricating job less well. How dirty your oil gets vs. how well used (old) it gets depends a lot on the terrain you ride. Dusty, deep water crossings, etc. all play a part in contaminating the oil vs. it just breaking down from use. So I consider dirty and old two separate and largely unrelated conditions with one (dirty) impacting the oil filter life and one not so much (old).

I change the oil every 1,000 - 1,500 miles depending on riding conditions and the filter every other oil change. Summer time dust may have me changing the filter with each oil change while the rest of the year's riding I change it every other (I put on about 6,000 miles a year on this bike).

The oil gets dirty when you don't change it soon enough or if something isn't right in the engine. So when you drop the oil and it isn't dirty you can skip on changing the filter. Every time it's dirty, you must change the filter.

Dancamp wrote:

Chadx wrote:

Nope. If your oil is "old", that does not necessarily mean your filter is dirty or old (beyond service life). It very well might have plenty of filtering life left. The oil also may not be "dirty", just "old" in the sense that it starts to break down and does it's lubricating job less well. How dirty your oil gets vs. how well used (old) it gets depends a lot on the terrain you ride. Dusty, deep water crossings, etc. all play a part in contaminating the oil vs. it just breaking down from use. So I consider dirty and old two separate and largely unrelated conditions with one (dirty) impacting the oil filter life and one not so much (old).

I change the oil every 1,000 - 1,500 miles depending on riding conditions and the filter every other oil change. Summer time dust may have me changing the filter with each oil change while the rest of the year's riding I change it every other (I put on about 6,000 miles a year on this bike).

The oil gets dirty when you don't change it soon enough or if something isn't right in the engine. So when you drop the oil and it isn't dirty you can skip on changing the filter. Every time it's dirty, you must change the filter.

We can't run oil that's got moly in it because of our wet clutch. It's too slippery an additive and screws up the clutchpack.

mash100 wrote:

How long would you keep the bike for? Couple of years maybe? How many miles? 15,000 perhaps?

I'm driving a 1995 Dodge Ram Turbo Diesel that runs as good as the day I bought it, and with many, many, many miles on it. Will the WR be around for more than a couple of years? No doubt about it.

Why WOULDN'T I change the oil regularly? Can't spare 20 minutes? Would have to forgo my expresso one morning and pay for the oil instead? When did changing the oil in a little engine like ours suddenly become a bad thing?

Quote :

So, regular oil changes as per instruction manual (3,000 miles), using either Yamalube or similar price branded oil to same specification surely should suffice. I agree there are probably those that ride these machines beyond Yamaha recommended limits, & therefore 'better' oil should be used, & possibly more regularly, but for us mere mortals, standard servicing should be OK......

I'll go you even better than that. I bet you can ride your WR for the entire 15,000 miles you intend to keep it, on the oil that originally came in the engine - as long as you just top it off when necessary of course. Instead of five oil changes, none. Or maybe just one. Think of the time and money to be saved.

We're not talking about what it takes to change the oil in my truck here. We're talking about a little engine that takes hardly any oil. If I can't afford either the time or the money to change that oil regularly - even if I am accomplishing absolutely nothing useful whatsoever - I probably shouldn't have a motorcycle in the first place.

I have one brother who has been a mechanic for about 30 years now and has worked on everything from race cars to British Challenger tank engines. The little brother was trained and worked as an oils engineer and worked in the production of various oils and lubricants until he found the grass grew greener elsewhere. Both of them like and believe in quality oil and frequent oil changes. Neither owns any stock in Shell or any other company. I might be the big brother of the bunch, but I know who the SMEs are here and listen to what they have to say.

Bottom line: it can't hurt.

The beauty is everyone gets to service and maintain their bike as they see fit.

Dancamp wrote:

The oil gets dirty when you don't change it soon enough or if something isn't right in the engine. So when you drop the oil and it isn't dirty you can skip on changing the filter. Every time it's dirty, you must change the filter.

Interesting train of thought. OK. I'll bite. How do you tell if the oil is "dirty" (since how an oil looks is not an indication of how dirty it is or if it's protection qualities are used up)?

Hey Jager: I understand what you're saying, but your truck is probably an indespencible part of your life (??), whereas your R2 is just a plaything that you won't keep for ever. I wonder how long your average R2 rider will keep his machine - I've ridden 2,000 miles since March, & at the moment intend to keep the bike for at least another year, maybe year & a half. I think depreciation will then become an issue, & it will be time to move on, probably to something different (???).
I guess my bottom line is: Yamaha engineers designed this machine to take quite a bit of abuse, & recommended the standard servicing/oil/etc. accordingly. I ride fairly hard, but I don't race or continually thrash her, so I guess I can follow the manual.....

Not that many people care one way or the other but there is a larger perspective... There's probably 200 Million vehicles (or more?) of one sort or another in this country. On average, if all change their oil 4 times per year and average four quarts or one gallon, that's 3.2 Billion gallons of oil. Or 58 million barrels... at $75 a barrel, plus refining, say $100/barrel, that's $6 Billion.

If we were able to extend the oil change interval so that oil is changed twice a year, we save $3 Billion, just in oil. That doesn't count the costs of oil changes, filters, labor, etc... probably another 3-4 Billion. Nor does it count the costs to deal with the occasional spill or leak, like the one in the Gulf right now.

World wide, it's probably 10-20 times that? I don't really know.

Since there's a finite amount of oil available, you get the picture. We can talk about the pros and cons of an individual motorcyle oil change and think that it doesn't matter but when you look at it as a total, it makes a huge difference.

Oh well.