Religion - which one is "the best"?

Your use of the word "truth" is a sticking point for me.

It suggests that anything else is a lie. Is that what you wish to suggest?

Regarding an earlier post I made, you can't see how if you were born and raised in India to a family and environment immersed in Hinduism, that you would most certainly believe that the path to everlasting enlightenment was through the beliefs and teachings of Hinduism? That Hinduism was "the truth"?

(Not everybody who has faith in a non-christian religion is being forced by their government to believe something non-christian. In fact most are not forced.)

motokid wrote:

Your use of the word "truth" is a sticking point for me.

It suggests that anything else is a lie.

In a world where there would be only one truth I would agree. But our world is not like that. As an example it is true that someone earning 5,000$ a year in north america is considered poor. There are many places on earth where this is not true and that without the firs description being a lie.

People may have their own truth and this without denying other's truth. The shit starts when someone consider he has THE truth and do everything he can to convince everyone.

In the catholic faith it says that when God created man HE left him the freedoom of choice. It's pittyfull that it's representative on earth don't do the same thing. That is true of any religion. If everyone would keep it's spirituality for himself and would try to understand others instead of convince them, manipulators wouldn't have such power over poor people. Doing good is much better than speaking good. You don't feed people by talking to them. Help them get food and then they will be able to take their own life in hands.

Captain Midnight wrote:

The referance to sheep is that God loves us so much, that He would die for each of us.

Uh huh, if that were true my father would still be here. So, I'm pretty much convinced if there is a "god" he EALLY doesn't care about us down here.

Captain Midnight wrote:

The only sure way to find out who's right or wrong in this matter is when you die; and since nobody's come back to tell us otherwise...
Well, Buda is dead, and Mohamad is dead, and Joseph Smith is dead, but Jesus is alive. You can talk to him. Ask Him to show Himself to you.
It leaves the whole matter open to debate. Considering all the religious faiths on this planet, and their differences, including the athiests, guess what? A whole bunch of people are going to be wrong!
It's not about being right or wrong, God loves everyone of us, He made us. He is asking for all of us to come to Him.
So I say again, are you prepared to admit to yourself, openly and honestly, that your entire faith could be absolutely wrong and completely misguided? What are you going to do if you're wrong?
Jesus came, so that we can be reunited with God, like Adam and Eve were, before sin separated them from God.
Talk about a lunchbag letdown.
Heaven will be a glorious place.

OH holy crap man... Do you honestly believe what you just said? O_o

Your use of the word "truth" is a sticking point for me.
It suggests that anything else is a lie.
Yes, everything else is a deception to leed you away from the truth.
In the catholic faith it says that when God created man HE left him the freedoom of choice. It's pittyfull that it's representative on earth don't do the same thing. That is true of any religion. If everyone would keep it's spirituality for himself and would try to understand others instead of convince them, manipulators wouldn't have such power over poor people. Doing good is much better than speaking good. You don't feed people by talking to them. Help them get food and then they will be able to take their own life in hands.
People have done terible things in the name of God. They will be judged for that. We have the ability now, through Jesus, to go directly to God ourselves. We don'd need a representative. You are correct that what's in a persons hart, is shown by their deeds.

OH holy crap man... Do you honestly believe what you just said? O_o

Your parents love you, what's so hard to believe the Maker of everything doesn't care for you.

Uh huh, if that were true my father would still be here. So, I'm pretty much convinced if there is a "god" he EALLY doesn't care about us down here.
It wasn't God plan for us to die. We were supose to live with Him forever. Adam and Eve, because of their sin, caused us to be mortal and die. He does care for us. He made a way for us, through Jesus, to reunite in Heaven, and have eternal life.

Captain Midnight wrote:

Yes, everything else is a deception to leed you away from the truth.

Care to expand on that?

Is Islam a deception?
Is Buddhism a deception?
Is Judaism a deception?
Is Mormonism a deception?
Is Hinduism a deception?
Is Taoism a deception?

By "deception" you mean?

What will happen to those who believe in deceptive ideologies?

Can there be separate heavens for people of separate faiths?

What happens to babies who die before they can make a choice based on anything at all?

Do you believe in original sin? What happens to a baby who's not baptized before they die?

Again, only answer if you feel comfortable. No pressure. I'll stop asking questions if you want to stop responding.

This is amazing.... freedom of speech, religion, press, bearing arms and serveral others could not be illustrated any better.

ROTFLMAO...

I love it.

I guess that some of the "flappers" have not been glued down thank goodness.

uh, sorry, continue, please.

Feel free to jump in T. There's lots of marshmallows to roast on the fire.

This is the problem with religon. I am right and you are wrong. The Christian guy has to take a P in the muslims well and vice veers. It is really amazin how much attention is taken by people in the 21 century to books that are supposed to describe good jesus allahs life(written 1900 year ago). Boks that probably where made upp, 2 of the gospels never meet jesus. This gospels where written centuries after jesus died. With what accurace can one describe somthing that sombody supposed to hav seen 100 years ago.

Maybe jesus was a homosexual, he was surronded by men, and some times a deciple and jesus went a way for a while,




Sorry it was an insult the same way that you insult other religons.

Thanks for the show Captain midnight ! Does anybody belive in peace on earth ?

rokka wrote:

Does anybody belive in peace on earth ?

When religion ends.... peace on earth may become a reality.

god, satan, heaven, hell...

Cap'n Midnight, do you mind if I ask what specific faith you follow?

I almost think you might be a Jehovah's Witness. My mother-in-law is a JW and she often times has a very un-bending, black & white, truth and deception way about her beliefs too.


As for the Adam & Eve story...

Why would an all caring and all loving God punish thousands of generations of people based on the actions of just one person? Do billions of people deserve to be condemed to such an existance based on what Adam did on that one day?

Which reminds me - do you take the Bible literally? Is the bible a "history book full of facts", or is it simply a grouping of metphorical stories and parables?

The New Testament has been written a few hundred years AD. It's been translated from aramaean to greek. There were words in the originals writings that did not exist in greek and the opposite is also true.

These wrintings were a compilation of historical facts mixed with spiritual ideas. It was a mean to reunite the monotheists of this region of the world. Obviously many are mixing up the spritual ideas and they tend to reject or accept these ideas in confronting them with the facts. As if the ideas couldn't stand by themselves.

There is no text that says that stealing something from your neighbour isn't good by itself. As a matter of fact it is good if your objective is to get rich without working and you don't mind the opinion of this neighbour. It says that if you want to have good relations with the people around you, you shouldn't steal. There is a good way to get somewhere and each religions propose a way. The religions are collections of paths to help people develop themselves is society. Thus the idea of faith in one or the other depending on wich one seems more appropiate to anyone.

When you look into history you will find that strong religious era always originated by large amount of people that were dominated by others. Be it from a dictator or by a majority like democracy. Instead of becoming crazy, people reached into themselves to find a way to find happiness. The opposite is also true. Whan people are able to reach happiness into their society, the religions are loosing ground. It's like the religions gives a tool of power where there is no other way to have it.

rokka wrote:

This gospels where written centuries after jesus died. With what accurace can one describe somthing that sombody supposed to hav seen 100 years ago.

Maybe jesus was a homosexual, he was surronded by men, and some times a deciple and jesus went a way for a while,




Sorry it was an insult the same way that you insult other religons.

Thanks for the show Captain midnight ! Does anybody belive in peace on earth ?

Well put...oh man the third last paragraph made me laugh so hard I almost wet myself. I believe in peace and harmony on earth, but you don't need religion to do it. Ok, maybe some ppl need that crutch, but really, everyone can achieve this if they believe in themselves for once.
Aaron has a good point. Without all of the religions saying their way is right, it would be much quieter and peaceful place in which to exist.

motokid wrote:

Cap'n Midnight, do you mind if I ask what specific faith you follow?

I
almost think you might be a Jehovah's Witness. My mother-in-law is a JW
and she often times has a very un-bending, black & white, truth and
deception way about her beliefs too.

I'm leaning heavily towards Christianity..I've met some who were very set in their ways. JW's as far as I recall, follow Jehovah, and that God is the big one. Jesus is just a nobody.

JW's are very much Christian.

Although most chrsitian groups refuse to accept them as such.

Hmm...I wonder why....

I don't subscribe to the "religion" stuff. Rather, I have a "relationship" with Christ. Religion is man's attempt to reach their own God or gods, with rules and regulations. When looking at the different religions and philosophy's, I think it's prudent to check out the history of such a philosophy. For example, how did that thought process come about, is there substantial evidence to support the paradigm. There are many paradigms out there that state they are the only way to eternal life or a repeat of life in another form; if this is the case, I think is very prudent to determine which one (based on evidence left behind) is telling the truth.....This truth may be evidenced by people's experiences who have died and written about it, or by literature that has described the past, as well as archeology that is being unearthed as we speak.....

In the end; it can be observed that we have a very short time to determine what road we should take, some shorter than others. There is ample evidence for each road, for those who actually "want to know the truth of each road", to determine the truth of each, and make an educated decision as to what road each will take......

For me; life is just a vapor in time, here today and gone tomorrow. We don't know what is in store for us tomorrow, life could end for us at the next stop light, so live life as if there is tomorrow. Cherish the present, because it is a present to you to enjoy.

motokid wrote:

JW's are very much Christian.

Although most chrsitian groups refuse to accept them as such.

I think this may be due to their view of the "Trinity"; God, Son and Holy Spirit. They deny that Christ is the God, and the Holy Spirit.

http://www.4jehovah.org/jehovahs-witness-trinity.php

“...we worship one God in Trinity, Trinity
in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons, nor
dividing the Substance. For there is one
Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another
of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son,
and of the Holy Ghost is all one: the glory equal, the
majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such
is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and
the Holy Ghost uncreate. The Father incomprehensible,
the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible.
The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal.
And yet they are not three Eternals, but one Eternal....So the
Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not
three Gods, but one God.” —Athanasian Creed


And the response to the JW denying the trinity:

http://www.carm.org/biblical-response-to-jehovahs-witnesses

Interesting video concerning religion among other things

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=825942553983229569&hl=en#

Interesting post Jager.

How many did "god" kill in the Bible?

Noah's Ark? Passover? .....

God killed so many, animals, women, children, babies, elderly, infirmed,....for what reason?
To prove humans should worship "him"?

motokid wrote:

Interesting post Jager.

How many did "god" kill in the Bible?

Noah's Ark? Passover? .....

God killed so many, animals, women, children, babies, elderly, infirmed,....for what reason?
To prove humans should worship "him"?

I don't know how many. However...

If you can tell me how many people have been saved because of people acting on what they believe were instructions from God - whether it is some church, the Salvation Army, religious charitable organizations, individual acts by individuals inspired with a moral code picked up from their religion... even the anti-abortionists if you like to play in that minefield... well, once you can put a figure on that number, then I'll take a shot at answering your question.

What I find interesting is that, aside from the debate over whether there is a supreme being/beings, is that most people want to focus on the bad/evil done with religion associated with it. Nobody seems to be much interested in putting that in context with the good that comes out of religious beliefs.

When we were in Yugoslavia, digging up mass graves and eventually fighting the battle of Medak Pocket to put an end to that particular genocide, my Mom used to send me newspapers from home (no Internet like today back in 1993). Learned writers sagely discussed the religious war and slaughter that was going on (although there, it was the Muslims that were getting slaughtered, and nobody was talking about intolerant and bloodthirsty Christians). And those of us over there scratched our heads and wondered what the hell Gwynn Dyer and the rest of the rocket scientists safe back home were talking about. Many of the collections of refugees we encountered were groups of Muslims and Christians, living and surviving together, and practicing their faith among each other. Those doing the killing - Christian and Muslim - were using religion (when they bothered) as their excuse. Far better to claim that you're doing God's work than to openly admit you're simply an evil, malicious, murdering scumbag.

Anne Frank and her family were sheltered and hidden by a Christian family - because the morality associated with their religious beliefs told them it was the right thing to do. The fact that the Frank family was Jewish did not somehow or other disqualify them. If you bother looking around a bit, that is just one story of thousands where people have done the right thing, the charitable thing, whatever, because their religious beliefs instruct them that is how their God wants them to treat their fellow man. Does the Dali Llama's beliefs spring from individual thought or religious beliefs? And if his messages and beliefs spring from religious beliefs, why is religion a bad thing? The Dalai Lama's religion has a long history of warrior monks, and they were very good at killing the other guy once they got stuck in. Shall we also attempt to count how many they killed while evaluating their religion?

Some people have no morality. Some get their morality from their family. Some get their morality from religion. Some of us get our morality from both - where is the separation in my morality between what my family taught me and what my religious beliefs (whatever they are) taught me? Some have no morality despite their family's teachings, and some have no morality despite their religion's teachings. And some have no morality BECAUSE of their family or religion's teachings. As in all things, there has to be context. Religion is no more the central theme to most violence than motorcycles are all about organized crime and brutality because of the Hell's Angels. Picking the exception to prove the rule is flawed logic anywhere.

When people natter about the unforgiving nature of Islam, I remember the Muslim man who risked his and his family's lives to come and tell us a mine had been placed overnight in the road we were about to take the next day. He told us through our terp that telling us about it scared him spitless because of the risk to his family and himself, but his religion was very clear on his obligation to not allow that sort of evil to happen, even to a bunch of Christians. Or the fact that the Muslims of Afghanistan tolerated other religions for centuries i.e. the Buddhist statues of Bamyan stood for 1500 years in that country, and there was a large Jewish population until the Taliban. Should I think of Islam in terms of the extremist Wahabbists, or the larger population? Should I think of Christianity in terms of the Christians who slaughtered Muslims at Medak and Srebrenica? Or instead, in terms of the Christians who have gone to places like Haiti after natural disasters to provide medical aid and other forms of relief, and the Salvation Army closer to home to help the down and out in our cities? Which one is the larger population, and which ones get to be the Official Christians/Muslims?

One thing we as a culture, and possibly as a world, seem to lack is the ability to apply critical thought to issues such as religion, law, etc. It has always boggled my mind how people who are quite capable of critical thought when running their business, doing their job within their profession, etc seem utterly incapable of applying the same thing to issues like religion, politics, gun control, whatever.