Dual Sport Philosophy

What do you think is the most important element in a dual sport bikes OFF ROAD worthiness? The tires? The weight? The chassis?

For example, would a Suzuki 650 V-Strom with a good set of off road tires do better than say a WRX or WRR with street oriented tires in typical (not overly technical) situations?

Or how about a mid-weight GS like the Triumph or BMW 800's at nearly 500 lbs with serious off road tires? Can tires make up for the weight and geometry?

For me I would say :

1. weight

2. ground clearance

3. tires

4. larger diameter front tire

Ah ... front wheel diameter ... big one. Dismissed the tires though? I thought they would be number one.

I'd say:

1) Tires
2) Weight
3) Front Wheel Diameter
4) Ground Clearance

To me, the term dual sport is a newer marketing term.
I never really cared for it because at the time it came out in the 1990s, it seemed to me it was dreamt-up by a salesman/marketing man looking to spice-up the same old offerings from the manufacturers' dual purpose bikes available at the time.

To me, all of those bikes like the V-Stroms are street bikes that are better for covering longer distances at the expense of much more mass, size, and weight.

What I want in a dual purpose bike is a dirt bike that can be legally ridden on the street without getting you pulled over for operating an unregistered motor vehicle on the street.

I would MUCH rather have a bike that's good off-road with street-orientated tires than a street bike with knobby tires.

I agree that the bigger bikes are better suited for paved or easy gravel road adventure riding. You get one of those big boys in some deep mud, boulders, etc, & you'll wish you had a lighter bike. So for me, & the kind of riding i do, here's the order of importance:

1. weight
2. tires
3. clearance

I don't really see wheel size as being a big factor, unless you get real small, & then it relates more to clearance, anyway. I think there is also a power to weight factor in there, too. If you've got a lightweight bike, but load it down with a lot of baggage, it will handle a lot differently, & you might as well get more power with the weight.

I think you need a bike to be in the 300# range to be a good dual sport. Much lighter, & you'll lose stability on high speed pavement. Heavier, & it is less manageable off road. That's why the 650's are a popular dual sport, & the drz, & now the wrr. You get a good balance of weight & power, with decent manners in any terrain.

You need some good knobs with the tires, but they don't have to be super aggressive. My shinko 244's have good traction, & i've not had any more problems in tricky terrain than those with much more aggressive knobbies, & they are nicer on pavement & longer graded roads.

But everyone should get what they like, ride what turns them on, & have fun. Other people cannot say what will do that for you.

1 Weight

Absolutely it is weight. I used to have a KLR650 and I hated riding that thing off road. It was just to heavy for me. A Super Sherpa or XT225 has plenty of power to take you anywhere off road and is easy doing it. They may not be as fast as the WR250R though.

2 Tires

Tires will help you go alot faster and make it easier to ride when there is not alot of traction.

3 Ground clearance

Not really needed to badly until you go over large logs or rocks.


I would hate to ride a V-strom on anything worse than a dirt road regardless of tires or setup.

ok i will take a stab at this,
1 Weight,from time to time ya gotta pick it up or get it unstuck.
2 Suspension,this could be number one. What good is any bike that will not go ware it is pointed or stay on line.
3 Broad usable power,so engine is third. I can make up for highway or woods with gearing.
As for tires,well my right hand can make up for that.Hey i ride single track in new england on 17s.
That is what my Dual Sport needs to do for me,just get from trail head to trail head with a side trip for lunch.

I'm surprised that no one mentioned gearing. A street-only bike generally has final drive gearing that is too tall for trail work. Many dual-sports get geared down via sprocket changes to rectify this shortcoming.

Interesting discussion. I agree with the comments regarding weight as being an important factor ( this coming from a KLR 650 convert ). Taken on its own one could thereby conclude that a dualsport that weighs in at 225# would be much better than our WR's. So, in addition to the weight factor I would submit that the dualsport needs to be reliable and relatively easy to maintain. My list is:
1. Weight
2. Reliability
3. Ease of Maintenance
4. Sufficient power to suit your riding style

I guess my dualsport philosophy is 50/50...the perfect balance.
What that is, shows in my effort. I'll figure it out.
My wrr, seems like the perfect 50/50 bike for me.
50/practical
50/toy
50/offroad
50/onroad
50/responsible
50/ass
50/ecomical
50/splurge
50/reliable
50/performance
50/ should I have bought it
100/glad I didnt buy something else.../and so on

Sure, I want other bikes more than ever...Though,I think my positive experience with my wrr is fueling that.

Nothing like , having your expectations met. For me it was my first bike in a long while.
A damn good fit so far. I couldn't suggest a better 50/50 bike for me.

All performance is about lightness, power and coordination...and dealing with the task at hand...that part, is up to me.

I agree, weight is number 1 for me. I have a KLR as well and have had it some pretty rough stuff. The WRR is way easier to deal with in the single track and rough stuff. And especially in deep soft sand.

I would put engine next. Decent low end torque so you can go slow without killing th engine. But enough horses to run down the road at 65-70 comfortably. That also means low vibration!
For me the WRR engine achieves this with slightly lower gearing.

I find the stock WRR suspention adaquate so I would list tires next. I like knobs for less sliding around.

I don't do anything too terribly nasty, so ground clearance is not too high on my list.

But then I have a whole other set of priorities to achieve an adventure touring setup.
- Cumfy seat
- Wind protection
- luggage capacity (now suspention becomes important)
- Heated grips
- etc

A well farkled WRR makes a really nice all around bike.

Looks like weight is the main issue for the WR crowd. That makes me feel a little better about dropping a rented V-Strom 650 twice on the Alpine Loop (Colorado) trailhead.

gatorfan wrote:

Looks like weight is the main issue for the WR crowd. That makes me feel a little better about dropping a rented V-Strom 650 twice on the Alpine Loop (Colorado) trailhead.

My daughter has a nice weestrom.. great bike. It is very fun on the twisties, has lots of power, & i really like the balance. But if i got into some of the terrain we got into on the white rim trail, i would not have enjoyed it. It's fine for gravel roads, & some milder dirt, but anything gnarly & you'll wish you had a real dirt bike, or were walking.

The wr has many compromises that make it less competitive with more dedicated dirt bikes, as we all know. But those compromises are what make it better on pavement or longer adventure rides. That's why it is one of the best dual sport bikes out there. It is a good compromise on all fronts.. & is as good as you can get to one do-it-all bike.

To me "Dual" "Sport" implies being able to participate in both sports. The implied sports being street riding and all terrain riding. A lot of what the manufacturers call "dual sports" are about as all terrain as a chevy suburban.

1. Comfort (Ergonomics and rideability in all terrains for long distances )

2. Reliability (No muss - No Fuss)

3. Performance (HP, Suspension an yes a 21" F. wheel with knobbies)

4. Weight (I would never have a DS bike over ~ 320 lbs loaded so it's that much or less so the top three prevail compared to a Wee, GS or some other not quite (in MY mind) dual sports).

1) comfort; vibration, noise ect.......

2) Handling; suspension, how it carried it's weight ect.....

3) Service schedule; rather ride than wrench.

4) Tranny; 6 speed for road use.

1) The Rider

2) everything else





But seriously, compromise without giving up too much in any single direction. I don't consider a Strom to be a good off-road dual sport any more than its a good supersport bike. Adventure tourer I guess?

A dual sport should be competent enough to get on the slab to the trail head for an indefinite amount of time then be able to run down trails at anything from a moderate to aggressive pace. To use a metric we used to have locally, a dual sport should be able to ride from Baltimore to western MD's Green Ridge State Forest and run a couple laps of the 17 mile ORV loop (that closed in April ) and ride back legally and comfortably enough. Or stay the night to go camping and hit the hundreds of miles of great gravel and paved twisties.

Since many said weight - what is TOO light? Assuming you do a fair bit of slab, when do you lose more road worthiness than is smart?

Last week I passed a semi on a county road going the opposite direction. He was hauling ass and I was doing 75mph. I should have slowed and braced more. The wind hit me so hard I expected to wake up surrounded by Munchkins.

gatorfan wrote:

Since many said weight - what is TOO light? Assuming you do a fair bit of slab, when do you lose more road worthiness than is smart?

Last week I passed a semi on a county road going the opposite direction. He was hauling ass and I was doing 75mph. I should have slowed and braced more. The wind hit me so hard I expected to wake up surrounded by Munchkins.

Seems like here, everything with a speed limit over 55 is a divided road. Then again, I'm heavy enough I compensate for any lightness the bike might have lol. Stepped on the scale the other day, my dry weight is dangerously close to the bikes dry weight! On the roads I ride though, I can't really imagine a bike being too light. That includes 75-80mph highway stints with tractor trailers galore.

rear subframe

For me, a dual sport is a bike I can ride out in the boonies, camp overnight, and ride back - 50% on the highway 50% in the dirt.

The key here is, I need to carry my camping stuff. That's where a light-weight (read street legalized dirt bike) loses it's dual sport cred. Without a rear subframe, you can't mount decent luggage. Piling a big, fat duffle on top of the bike makes for crappy handling regardless of the rest of the power, weight, suspension equation. Either you have a subframe for luggage mounting / weight bearing, or you don't. The extra sturdiness of the WR250R/X frame is what makes it weigh 300 lbs. and what makes it a real dual sport. For me, that design characteristic is more important than engine displacement. The short-stoke 250cc with a 6-speed transmission can hold the highway speed limit, fully loaded (give or take a hill or two), and that's adequate.

Interesting that the 650 V-Strom was mentioned several times. I ride one daily. It's a wonderful commuter bike, decent light touring bike, mediocre dirt road bike, poor trail bike. My last trip down a gravel wash with it convinced me to get the WR250R. The WR is a keeper because it's all the off-road bike I need (don't need a wanna-be racer, I'm not that fast). The V-Strom may soon find its replacement in a Super Tenere, because the XT1200Z is better at everything than the 650 V-Strom, but it'll never be 300 lbs. It can carry some payload though.

Good point Boondocker. The subframe is an important aspect for me as well.