Water in motor oil

My roommate just bought an 08 WRX with 3200 miles on it.  He doesn't have his license yet so I am just walking him through maintenance.  One of the first things we did was change the oil, and it looked really milky (water intrusion?).  It was literally the color of a Starbucks bottled mocha frap.  We drained and flushed it a bit and then filled it up.  The oil looked good in the sight glass as well as the bleeder bolt.  He took it for a test ride down the block and back.

Fast forward one week.  Over the week there were a few scattered showers, although in Hawaii it always becomes sunny afterwards and dries up immediately.  The bike was parked mostly underneath a tarp overhang, but it is not immune to diagonal rain.  I was changing my plug and needed an extension so I took his bike to the hardware store 1.5 miles away.

When I got back, I noticed his sight glass was all milky again and the level was higher than normal.  A little more white than mocha this time, but definitely not the sweet amber color it should have been.  I figure the only explanations are either severe water intrusion, or old oil left in the system that I pumped loose in my 3 mile ride.  I'm really hoping it's old oil.  When I have time I'm going to supervise another oil change to be safe, but I would like your thoughts.  I'm also concerned about how the water got in there in the first place...

Thank you!

Check radiator fluid.

Rain isn't the issue.
I doubt residual oil from prior to oil change would cloud the new oil to that extent.

Something cracked/stripped and allowing coolant into oil is more likely the issue.

+1 to what Motokid said.

I think Mr. Kalani had a similar issue with his bike where coolant from the water pump was getting into the engine and turning his oil all milky.

Yeah I was just looking at his troubleshooting videos this weekend.  Lovely.  I've never delved that far into the bike before, but it doesn't look terribly difficult.  I love thumpers.

Any suggestions on where to start?  Water pump area I guess?

Thanks for the input!

I was hearing a weird sound while on that short ride too. There was a strange grating/rattling-like noise coming from the case, seemingly the left side. It would only show up for a second when passing certain RPMs. I was thinking it might be the Zeta skid plate, but it was not consistent enough. Now I'm thinking it may be related to the leaking radiator/head.

Has the bike had any engine work done to it, e.g A big bore ?

Monkeynuts wrote:

Has the bike had any engine work done to it, e.g  A big bore ?

According to the previous owner (2nd, I believe) the internals are all stock.  The airbox, EXUP, and AIS are all intact so I can't imagine anything else was done to the bike.  The guy we bought it from seemed to have no clue about the bike and he only put 500 miles on it over the course of one year and some months (combined with his almost non-existent mechanical knowledge, this is somewhat alarming).  The bark busters were installed a little wrong but aside from that, the skid plate, removed spark arrestor and an edge tail light, the bike seems to be stock.  The previous-previous owner was in the Army and I know he took it off road as it came with OR wheels (and red dirt).  

That's all I know about the bike, relevant info or not...

 I'd be keeping an eye on all of the fluid levels to try an see if the water is from the cooling system or if the previously owner took it snorkelling.
Note that these bike don't hold much water or oil.

Might as well run cheap oil till you figure this out. Change the oil, run the engine, change the oil repeat, until its spotless. Check coolant level obviously.

You could get the cooling system pressure tested, you could also do a leakdown test.

I would ignore the noise for right now, well make sure the drive chain isn't to loose, but otherwise I would consider it a distraction from the main problem.

beee wrote:

Might as well run cheap oil till you figure this out.  Change the oil, run the engine, change the oil repeat, until its spotless.  Check coolant level obviously.

You could get the cooling system pressure tested, you could also do a leakdown test.
 
I would ignore the noise for right now, well make sure the drive chain isn't to loose, but otherwise I would consider it a distraction from the main problem.

Yeah the noise didn't worry me much until the I had notion that it may be related to the oil issue. My bike definitely does not make that noise though.

It sounds like the only (easy) choice right now is to change it again and see if the coolant level reduces. I have a feeling it will because the oil level has increased.

Thanks for everyone's input!

If it becomes obvious that it is coolant leaking into the engine oil, the water pump impeller shaft seals are suspect.
Not too big of a job, as the parts are all housed within the right-hand crankcase cover (clutch side cover).

When riding the COBDR this summer I dumped my WRR in a rather large puddle and ended up with water getting into the crankcase.

When I got the bike back into Delores, CO I changed the oil and took it for a 5 minute spin and changed the oil again. It took 3 oil changed to get the milky appearance out of the oil after those short rides. I did a 4th change the following day in Telluride, CO just to be sure and it still looked good.

Just an update - the coolant reservoir was down to the minimum mark.  Not too distressing on its own, but the coolant throughout the system is a dark coffee color.  That worries me.  It smells like antifreeze and something else - I'm guessing motor oil.  Combined with the raised oil level, it seems that a leaking gasket is the culprit. Also, what does it take to get oil into the coolant system? A pretty serious leak I imagine.

The owner is opting to take it to the shop.  Does anyone have any experience having a shop change the head gasket?  IF that is the problem, the owner doesn't want to spend more than $700 (and at $85/hour, that's only about 8 hours of work in his budget...).  Beyond that he just wants to sell it.  Doesn't look good for this little WR :[

YZEtc wrote:

If it becomes obvious that it is coolant leaking into the engine oil, the water pump impeller shaft seals are suspect.
Not too big of a job, as the parts are all housed within the right-hand crankcase cover (clutch side cover).

rocketjump wrote:

Just an update - the coolant reservoir was down to the minimum mark.  Not too distressing on its own, but the coolant throughout the system is a dark coffee color.  That worries me.  It smells like antifreeze and something else - I'm guessing motor oil.  Combined with the raised oil level, it seems that a leaking gasket is the culprit.  Also, what does it take to get oil into the coolant system?  A pretty serious leak I imagine.  

The owner is opting to take it to the shop.  Does anyone have any experience having a shop change the head gasket?  IF that is the problem, the owner doesn't want to spend more than $700 (and at $85/hour, that's only about 8 hours of work in his budget...).  Beyond that he just wants to sell it.  Doesn't look good for this little WR :[

Start with YZEtc's suggest (quoted above).  I've not worked on a WR but I have done water pump work and it's usually pretty straightforward.  I've had head gasket issues on other bikes and it was not a big job for someone that knows what they're doing.

On a related note: I once bought a track bike that had been improperly winterized and popped a freeze plug leading to oil smoothy.  That lead to a head gasket.  I had just bought the bike so called the PO and he took care of it.  I would encourage your friend to call the PO and see if he/she will take responsibility.

Make sure to take it to a (reputable) dealer if the PO is willing to take responsibility so things are properly documented, done with OEM parts and presumably done right.  Of course if the current and previous owner can agree on a shop that is ideal.

He'll take a bath if he sells with the issue but I'm sure you'll find takes.  I'd buy it for the right price if he/she were local and I didn't have one already.

Good luck and let us know what he/she finds.

-morgan

PO in this case is clueless. He said he knew nothing about it and didn't respond to any other contact. Plus he didn't strike me as particularly knowledgeable - it was his first bike and he put 500 miles on it over a year and a half or something like that.

He's kinda out of luck on dealers too - the only Yamaha dealer on the island doesn't have the best reputation, but it's pretty much his only choice. I don't really have a problem with them but there are always horror stories.

I had actually forgotten about the water pump suggestion, so I will pitch that to him. I can handle that, and I feel I could do the head gasket but not necessarily with confidence. I am not sure that I would try it on my own bike, but mine is my primary mode of transportation! After getting the WR I can't imagine commuting on the Fireblade :S

Thanks once again Morgan!

rocketjump wrote:

PO in this case is clueless.  He said he knew nothing about it and didn't respond to any other contact.  Plus he didn't strike me as particularly knowledgeable - it was his first bike and he put 500 miles on it over a year and a half or something like that.  

He's kinda out of luck on dealers too - the only Yamaha dealer on the island doesn't have the best reputation, but it's pretty much his only choice.  I don't really have a problem with them but there are always horror stories.  

I had actually forgotten about the water pump suggestion, so I will pitch that to him.  I can handle that, and I feel I could do the head gasket but not necessarily with confidence.  I am not sure that I would try it on my own bike, but mine is my primary mode of transportation!  After getting the WR I can't imagine commuting on the Fireblade :S

Thanks once again Morgan!

That is the risk one takes buying used.  Then forget the dealer and find a good mechanic.  Chances are it will cost less to repair than the money he will lose selling it with the problem.

-morgan

This problem has probably been resolved by now, but I just wanted to point out that the noise mentioned above was, imo, most likely the water pump bearing. I think it likely that the seal leaked coolant into the oil supply, giving the bearing a big drink of destruction.

It was actually dropped off at a shop yesterday so we will know soon. I feel like it's the water pump too. I didn't stick my nose in it but I am pretty sure the coolant system was straight tap water and I know that the PO put 500 miles on it in a year. Something in there must be nice and rusted. I'm sure I could have fixed that, but my friend opted to go with a reputable shop we found.

For those interested, it ended up being the water pump.  The shop scared us for a while because he replaced some parts in the pump (not sure what yet, haven't picked it up) and still got murky oil, but it turned out to be residual and went away with a flush.  $150 bill.  Yay!

rocketjump wrote:

For those interested, it ended up being the water pump.  The shop scared us for a while because he replaced some parts in the pump (not sure what yet, haven't picked it up) and still got murky oil, but it turned out to be residual and went away with a flush.  $150 bill.  Yay!

Thanks for the follow-up.

Always helpful.   


And $150 dollars actually sounds like a pretty fair deal to me without knowing any more info on what they replaced. Any time some shop has to do anything to a motorcycle I assume a minimum of $100 before parts are included.