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| Well...dangit. White smoke and mixed fluids | |
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krispykritter
| Subject: Well...dangit. White smoke and mixed fluids Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:57 pm | |
| Hello all! I've been lurking for a while, but a broken bike made me sign up to tell you all about it and maybe get some advice/perspective.
Mostly posting to complain. Makes me feel better.
I went for a ride with several buddies in Ocala National Forest last Sunday. (Nearly) Everyone else was on a 'real' dirtbike, ie WR450F, CRF450X, etc, so I have to work pretty hard to keep up, but keep up I do. Usually. Since I'm down 200 cc on everyone else and up probably 30+ lbs, I probably beat on the poor wrr a bit more than they beat on their bikes. I hesitate to say how much more, as we all run about the same speed, swap up leading and following, and generally just have a great time.
Anyway, I noticed towards the end of our ride what I thought was an odd noise; I stopped and checked the oil, and it was smack in between the level indicators. Engine sounded okay, but maybe a bit more 'mechanical' than I was used to, but didn't seem to be down on power or smoking, so we continued on. Ran great all the way back the trucks, probably another 15 miles.
Side note: The only issue I've ever had (and it nearly tossed me off) was a sudden lack of power while hitting sand whoops at probably 30-35 mph...bogged down like it lost fuel or something, then kicked right back in after I rolled off and back on to the throttle. Any ideas about that?
So I load up and head home sunday evening. Monday morning, I roll the bike back out of the garage, wash the leftover ocala off of it, then fire it up to burn off the water ... and it smokes. And stinks. But runs like a top. Maybe just some water in the exhaust? A quick ride around the neighborhood and it's still smoking.
So I start looking....and the coolant is full and black. And the oil is full and gray.
paoidvna097d8gf0a98efhq0237gfxzjcb olasdugfoasudhf adfha 7fyt0q9238rhpaduhf...
Any ideas what I did? That's fairly classic head gasket stuff, but others have mentioned the water impeller seal (which doesn't explain the burning oil and/or coolant), a cracked coolant jacked or something? Dunno...pretty bummed. My best guess is water pump seal let oil and coolant mix, and I rode the hell out of it with insufficient cooling/oiling, and probably overheated the pistons, damaged the rings, and maybe even screwed up the bearing races? The fan kicked on and off like it should have, and the temp light never lit while we were riding
Just loaded it onto the trailer to take it to a shop tomorrow, but it still fires up and idles fine, just smokes like hell.
This may sound odd ... but how hard is too hard? I hit 80+ mph on some of the wider areas ... enough to allow my wider gearing to literally make me faster than all the other guys. In the tighter stuff, I'm on the rev limiter a lot - a whole lot. I know it's not exactly good for it, but it's what it's built to do, right?
Thanks for listening =(
Edit: forgot - PO removed all the emissions crap and drilled a hole in the airbox; I added an FMF tuner. It's a 2008 WR-X converted to R with just over 5k miles on it.
Last edited by krispykritter on Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Forgot to mentioned bike info) | |
| | | saddletramp
| Subject: Re: Well...dangit. White smoke and mixed fluids Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:32 pm | |
| I cannot provide any insight as to what the problem might be but wanted to just send out this note to welcome you to the site. Not every first post is as interesting as this one. Let us know what you find out. I concur with your assessment to date. | |
| | | krispykritter
| Subject: Re: Well...dangit. White smoke and mixed fluids Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:12 pm | |
| Well, dropped it at the shop today. The mechanic listened to it and said he agreed with my assessment overall, but thought it wasn't too terrible as it still runs smooth and cranks up fine. Probably blew the oil rings and water pump seal but that may be all. He's going to take it apart tomorrow and let me know what he finds. | |
| | | YZEtc
| Subject: Re: Well...dangit. White smoke and mixed fluids Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:53 am | |
| Hopefully, it's only the seal on the water pump impeller shaft which separates the engine oil from the coolant. If you "blew the oil rings", I would think the bike would be running kinda' funny.
What is your air filter maintenance routine?
As for your bike cutting out in the sand, check your FMF Power Programmer settings. If the 5th number is too low, it can and will do that as it has happened to me, too. Search the fuel programmer section of this site as there are threads on the specifics.
Whatever the reasons end up being, come back on here and post the answers. 98% of the time with these threads, the guy looking for answers never comes back and tells the end of the story. | |
| | | krispykritter
| Subject: Re: Well...dangit. White smoke and mixed fluids Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:42 am | |
| It doesn't really run funny (well, it doesn't idle funny at least, haven't ridden it since I noticed the issue), but it blows pretty decent clouds of smoke out the pipe and seems to have quite an appetite for oil now =/ It does seems to make some kinda timing chain slap (sounds like my old 150F when the tensioner went) but the mechanic thinks if there was enough heat to cook the oil rings then the timing chain may have stretched as well.
I hate to admit it, but I don't do much air filter maintenance. Only once when I first got the bike, and that was probably 1000 miles ago.
I did notice that post about the fuel programmer - that's something I'll be taking a good look at once I get the bike back. On a related note (I'll admit I haven't searched THIS forum yet), is there somewhere with the sorta-recommended settings for a drilled airbox and all the emissions/noise related stuff removed? I can't recall my settings right now but it definitely livened up a fair bit once I added fuel via the programmer, and got ride of some of the low-rpm throttle sensitivity.
Thanks for the responses; I'll definitely post up once I hear what's gone wrong. | |
| | | krispykritter
| Subject: Re: Well...dangit. White smoke and mixed fluids Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:29 am | |
| Welp, heard back.
My mechanic said the oil rings are shot (just fall off the cylinder), though the compression rings aren't terrible. Looks like I've got a fuel pressure problem (holds 30 psi while running, but bleeds out when turned off - no pressure hold), and the extra heat that killed the rings also swelled the piston and scoured up the cylinder walls enough to need a re-plate. Since I had oil in the water and water in the oil, he also recommended changing the water pump seals as a precaution since it's all coming apart anyway.
Going to put in an athena standard-bore piston, then send the current cylinder and piston off to have the cylinder replated to match.
I'll do the fuel pump myself once I get the bike back, and he said the timing chain is actually fine on it, not stretched like he'd originally thought.
Including the fuel pump, he estimated 1200 ish dollars =( Assuming he priced the yamaha part and probably 50$ in labor, looking at maybe 850$ for the actual internal rebuild.
So, advice time: yamaha wants a first-born child for their fuel pump (and seems to be hit or miss whether any of the redesigns actually improved much). I've heard there's someone that makes a 130$ pump, and CNT makes a (literally) $30 dollar pump. Thoughts? I'd be happy enough buying four CNT pumps and calling it a day! | |
| | | chabon
| Subject: Re: Well...dangit. White smoke and mixed fluids Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:25 pm | |
| Ouch, at least your getting it sorted out. Not sure why it would fail like that. I run my WRX hard, I don't think the ride you are describing is unnecessarily hard on the WR. Perhaps when the oil and water mixed you lost lubrication and the problems cascaded.
I just put a CNT or similar pump in mine. Works fine and not that hard to do. I used a dremel to grind down one of the tabs to get the cage apart a little easier. | |
| | | CaptTurbo
| Subject: Re: Well...dangit. White smoke and mixed fluids Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:10 pm | |
| Sorry for the problems you ran into Krispy but I bought a German made fuel pump from an ebay vendor called Highflow Fuel Systems. I could have gone with cheaper pumps that are selling but decided to pay the $55.00 shipped from that guy thinking that it might actually be a higher quality component. The item was listed for a bit more but said or best offer so I offered $50.00 and he countered with $55.00 I think. Anyway, strong pump and I got to learn a bit more about the bike swapping it in. I also bought a new old stock complete fuel factory pump (cage and all) from another vendor for $175.25 (more horse trading) just in case my efforts failed installing the cheaper option. I honestly don't mind having a spare complete fuel pump with the track record these things have had. Best of luck getting everything back together again. | |
| | | krispykritter
| Subject: ....And it's back together Thu Nov 12, 2015 7:43 am | |
| Well, $1k later and my bike runs again. New Athena piston, recoated cylinder jug, water pump seal, and a fair bit of cleaning. Ended up buying a CNT fuel pump, but the mechanic said he cleaned the crap out of the one in the bike and now it holds pressure fine, so I guess the CNT will be a spare. No harm there.
Hopefully everything holds together well. I haven't actually seen it since the mechanic finished, as a buddy of mine lives down the street from the shop and picked it up for me. Any advice for break in of a new piston and coated cylinder?
Cheers, Kris | |
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