on/off effect

how is pobbible risolve the on/off effect on small gas aperture ?

I think this is the worst(and the only) problem of this bike.

I've read about tps ,but on diagnostic mode doesn't appear.

If anyone could help me ...

probably is a problem of european version ...

my dealer told me that this problem there is ,but cannot be resolved...

thank

Give us as much detail as possible about the problem and we can better help you.
When exactly does this happen? how often? what rpm's it happens at? does it happen when stopped?

Is it stalling at low rpm's? if so you may need to raise your idle up a little bit.

Or cutting on and off? if so you may have a problem with you lean angle sensor, have you done any airbox mods?

I think what he is referring to is the jerkyness of the throttle off idle, like most of us have complained about. Not much you can do about that. Some say the programmer helps smooth it out, and others say changing gearing helps. I have the programmer and it didn't change much for me. The bike is still jerky at low speed when you give it throttle. I think it is due to the EFI and the snappy throttle response it gives, as oppossed to a carb engine. It's something you just need to get used to. It has gotten better the more I run the bike. Or should I say, I have gotten better at controlling it the more I run the bike.

Chalk it up to Yamaha and EFI emissions. To keep emissions levels low on deceleration Yamaha engineers programmed the EFI to cut all fuel flow to the throttle body. Now, when you go to open the throttle, there is a delay while the EFI figures out you need fuel. The result is a lurch as the EFI releases the fuel all at once unless you open the throttle very slowly. This condition is prevalent across all of Yamaha's EFI bikes. I had it on my FZ-1 and FJR. While EFI has it's advantages a properly jetted carb is buttery smooth at all ranges.

The on/off effect of the EFI is not a problem, but like mwakey says, it's just something you have to get used to - the on/off effect annoyed me when I first got the WRR, but now I don't notice it at all

You might try raising the idle and see if that helps you with the slow maneuvers on the trail. On the left side of the throttle body is a screw to adjust the idle. Turn it to the left to raise the idle and to the right to lower the idle. Most people I have talked to say the bike is set too low from the factory. Mine is a WRX so I ride the street and I raised my idle up to about 1750 RPM and it helps with that jerkyness you get taking off from a stop. If you are riding trails, you could set the idle up even higher. I also have the FMF programmer , but didn't really notice any difference in regard to this problem. The programmer helps with the performance a lot but not the off idle jerk. I can't speak for the PC III.

You know, I don't notice it on my 09. This is what makes me think they did some tweaking on the FI mapping, because I don't get the hesitation and my top end has more there.

SheWolf wrote:

You know, I don't notice it on my 09. This is what makes me think they did some tweaking on the FI mapping, because I don't get the hesitation and my top end has more there.

But I thought we determined in another thread somewhere (maybe on TT) that the '08 and '09 ECU were the same part number. Maybe just your riding style is why you don't notice it.

Hard to say Mark. I mean in reality, we have the same ECU's but when you put a programmer on it, the mapping changes. Who's to say they didn't do something like advance the injection timing somewhere? You can still use the same ECU, can't you?

SheWolf wrote:

Hard to say Mark. I mean in reality, we have the same ECU's but when you put a programmer on it, the mapping changes. Who's to say they didn't do something like advance the injection timing somewhere? You can still use the same ECU, can't you?

When you say "they" (in bold above), do you mean Yamaha or the programmer manufacturers? I don't believe Yamaha has changed anything on the '09 ECU, because I recall from another thread (or possibly in another world) on another forum that all the numbers matched on the sticker on the ECU ('08 and '09 comparison), which makes me think they are the same internally. Sure, adding a programmer is going to change your injection duration, but it doesn't fix what I believe the OP is trying to explain is his problem.

SheWolf, you have a lot of experience riding lots of different bikes, I can tell. When you first rode a bike with EFI, didn't you notice this on/off effect when you opened the throttle and took off for the first time, compared to a carbed bike? Maybe the OP has just not gotten used to the instantaniousness (is that a word?) of the throttle on an EFI machine. My other thought is this may be his first thumper. The on/off effect is naturally going to be more noticable on a single cylinder machine as oppossed to a multi-cylinder bike. There is just no smooth way to crack open the throttle when you need just that wee little bit of acceleration.

With a carb you open the throttle and THEN the fuel flows as the increased vacuum sucks it out of the float bowl. Fuel timing is subject to how the carb is jetted and what delivery method is used to get the fuel into the intake tract. On an EFI, the ECU controls the fuel so the timing between throttle opening and fuel delivery is shortened (sometime with too much precision) and I believe the result is a jerky throttle for those who have not gotten used to how this system works compared to the old school carbs. I'm trying to understand the OP's broken english and this is how I see his problem.

Here is another way to think of it. Listen to an album (analog music) with your headphones on (Pink Floyd comes to mind). And I mean a good full ear headphone, not some cheap ass ear buds you got at Wally World. Now really listen close and see how great it sounds? NOW, pop in the same Pink Floyd CD (digital music) and do the same test.... really listen close. If you are a true audio nut you WILL be able to come to the same conclusion I did.... The CD sounds like shit. The music is jerky and for a lack of a better term, it is digital sounding. Little bits and piece of digital notes strung together with such precision that it fools most ears into thinking it sounds the same as the good old analog album. Now compare that to your EFI thumper with it's digital ignition and digital fuel delivery. It's jerky! Little bits of fuel and spark controlled in such a precise manner that it fools most of the users into thinking it runs just like their old "analog" carb. The "analog" carb is much smoother and more flowing to the seat of your pants, much like the analog music is smoother and more flowing to your ears. It just takes some getting used to is all it is. Analog anything is becoming a thing of the past and one has to get used to it's replacements.... namely, EFI and CD's. Personally I can live with the change to EFI, but I sure miss my albums. I hardly ever use my headphones anymore. It's just too depressing.

Hey guys I am going to try the Throttle Tamer throttle tube from G2 Ergonomics. While not listed on thier web site www.g2ergo.com I was assured in an email that we can get on for the WR250R/X Here is what they had to say:
Hi,

If you buy the Yamaha FJR Tamer and write in the comment section that it is for a WR 250, I will make sure you get what you need.

Sam



G2 Ergonomics

Sam Wancket

905 Locust Drive

Rock Falls IL. 61071

815-718-5860

www.g2ergo.com

I will have mine next week and will report on how it works out when I give it a try. Quality USA made product and good people to deal with. This should make the initial throttle movements less jerky. I had ordered the FJR1300 one from Dennis kirk, but it was too long for use, G2 is exchanging it for the right one for free. Great service.

I for one really noticed the throttle snatch on this bike when I got my first ride. Started out just putting around the parking lot and was utterly unimpressed precisely because of the throttle snatch. I got impressed with the bike in a hurry, but the point is that the first thing I noticed about the bike was the throttle snatch.

Now, in my case, this is my first thumper. Everything else other than pure road bikes have been full on motocross bikes. So that may be part of why I notice it - never mind the fuel injection, there's a tremendous difference between the reaction of a two stroke on the pipe and a four stroke.

Anyways, I still notice the throttle snatch and probably will for a long time to come. But I'll either figure out a work around (increase the idle... thanks Mark), or simply get fully comfortable with it. It certainly isn't something that would make me turn my nose up at the bike.

I can say my Power Commander did help with the off idle jerkyness a little, but it is still there and still annoys the hell outta me. I may play with the programmer and try to eliminate it.

This problem has been my only complaint about WRR slow speed off-road performance. Combined with the stock gearing, trials-type riding is not easy. In warmer weather I may try fooling with the TPS adjustment to try and fool the computer.

Fuel cut-off on deceleration is just about universal on EFI design. Reasons are improved fuel economy, lower emissions, lower catalyst temperature, elimination of pop-back in exhaust. In a multi-cylinder engine it usually cannot be felt due to greater rotating mass and more firing events per revolution. For example, I cannot feel it at all on my CBR1000RR. It may also be that the Honda uses "Dual Stage" injection and Yamaha does not.

While re-gearing the WRR does not really cure or eliminate the problem, it does lower the speed at which it becomes bothersome. As many owners have noted, unless you are doing a lot of highway driving , lowering the gearing is a cheap and effective mod for better off-road performance.

Fly-by-wire isn't exactly what I mean by a dual-butterfly EFI setup. The main throttle butterfly can still be controlled by conventional throttle cable. The secondary butterfly is modulated by the ECU in the same way that engine vacuum modulates a CV carb slide. More info here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=wC2dThrY2BMC&pg=PA96&lpg=PA96&dq=dual+butterfly+throttle+valve+motorcycle+efi&source=bl&ots=jen0TPzV8h&sig=RVYgbZ0bfquUBHoo21SfJKDUsj0&hl=en&ei=lZu2ScPtG5LQsAPTv_jkCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

I don't own a WRR, but I'm disappointed in the FI. I wish they had spent a little more money and made it a closed-circuit system like the Husky 610 FI. Husky 610 owners report about the same gas mileage as WRR owners thanks largely to the Husky's excellent closed-circuit Mikuni FI. I'd like to see Yamaha go "all-in" and develop a closed-circuit FI with dual-butterfly throttle body for this bike.

I have an FMF Power Programmer on mine - problem solved.

scottmac wrote:

I have an FMF Power Programmer on mine - problem solved.

What numbers are you using, because I have the FMF too and it only helped part way with the jerky throttle.

mwakey wrote:

scottmac wrote:

I have an FMF Power Programmer on mine - problem solved.

What numbers are you using, because I have the FMF too and it only helped part way with the jerky throttle.

steveakus had his R² dyno'd and this is what he posted up on TT as giving the best power curve
they could find. I've been using the same and they have worked well.

1-3
2-5.5
3-.5
4-8
5-4
6-4.5

These numbers are very. very close to the original settings the programmer
is pre-programmed with by FMF when you first get it. If you're using a FMF
header and muffler as well it makes sense.

FMF must have done a large amount of dyno testing in conjuntion with their
other R² products to come up with what they felt was the best combination.

I'm also running 13/46 gearing so my 1st gear is not as tall as stock either.

The Tamer Throttle tube sounds interesting, basically it has a cam that the throttle cable attaches to that increases the amount of tube rotation required to initially open the throttle. So basically you get finer grained control on the initial throttle openings, and normal response on wider throttle openings..

This is the only thing that annoys me about this bike - riding smoothly around the parking lot, and trying to gracefully roll on the throttle on steep downhills. Although, I am getting used to it.

I think I'll increase the idle speed a little - see what happens.............

I installed my G2 Ergonomic Throttle Tamer last weekend, I have not tried it in the tight woods or anything like that, but in slow speed standing on the pegs in second gear I love it! I have a 47T rear sprocket and the PCIII so I am sure that helps out as well, the nice thing also about the G2 throttle tube is that it has some teflon like bushings pressed in and it is very smooth....

Is it pricey? Yes, but it is made in the USA, the build quality is top notch, and the action is second to none....

It was worth it to me....

Never was able to find out what the actual part number is...not sure why some companies insist on keeping these things secret...so I would say your best bet is to just call the folks at G2 and order over the phone....

The problem with this bike is in the computer. In all new Yamaha sport/road bikes they shut off fuel below say 6K at closed throttle openings for emissions. Then when you re-open the throttle BAM there it is. Big problem with the 06+ FZ1 crowd. A PCIII or TFI can make it "feel" better but does not actually fix the problem. Click here for part to fix this problem:

http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/2006fz1.htm

No idea if it would work on a WR, but who knows ;)

JonDaddy82 wrote:

The problem with this bike is in the computer. In all new Yamaha sport/road bikes they shut off fuel below say 6K at closed throttle openings for emissions. Then when you re-open the throttle BAM there it is. Big problem with the 06+ FZ1 crowd. A PCIII or TFI can make it "feel" better but does not actually fix the problem. Click here for part to fix this problem:

http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/2006fz1.htm

No idea if it would work on a WR, but who knows ;)

That may be part of the problem, but not all of it. This fuel cut thing does not explain why the throttle has the SAME jerk when I first apply it after starting the engine. I have not decelerated yet, so how is the fuel cut after engine start? Me thinks it is not the root cause of what people here are bitching about. I believe it has more to do with the abrupt factory throttle cam like vwsandman mentioned, and the throttle tamer should help this IMO.

vwsandman wrote:

I installed my G2 Ergonomic Throttle Tamer last weekend, I have not tried it in the tight woods or anything like that, but in slow speed standing on the pegs in second gear I love it! I have a 47T rear sprocket and the PCIII so I am sure that helps out as well, the nice thing also about the G2 throttle tube is that it has some teflon like bushings pressed in and it is very smooth....

Is it pricey? Yes, but it is made in the USA, the build quality is top notch, and the action is second to none....

It was worth it to me....

Never was able to find out what the actual part number is...not sure why some companies insist on keeping these things secret...so I would say your best bet is to just call the folks at G2 and order over the phone....

Are those G2's open ended for handguard installations? Their web site sucks for info.

Agreed the web site sucks, but when I emailed them they responded right away and answered my questions. To answer your question,Yes, the throttle tamer comes with a machined plug with o-ring for the end cap so if you are running guards like I am you pop out the plug and you are good to go, if not leave the plug in and your closed ended grips and you will be ok that way, either way you can go back or forth with it...

Seemed like I had to slide my throttle in about 1/8"and the starter button and Brake perch..but I could have had the hole I drilled in my bars(Pro Taper Se) off from the factory location so YRMV...it was not a big deal to shift the hole in the bar for the throttle assembly ( the hole keeps it from spinning around)

Also when you order you may want to get the stock "cam" in case you want to compare back to back...I did not and just for the smooth action of the throttle it is a huge improvement over stock so for me it was worth it for that alone, the smoothing of the jerkyness was a bonus...

Made so nice it is a shame to cover it up!

HI All, new guy to the forum here
I noticed the same thing on tight first gear trail's, I think it's technical description is "Abruptness"
There are thing's you can do to change it but the result is poor fuel economy
You can adjust the CO setting on these bikes just like any other Yamaha EFI bike by grounding a wire but that's a long story
It allow's you to add or remove fuel from the low speed circuit, I did this and I couldn't notice much difference
To be honest I think there's a lot of drive line snatch in the bike making this "Abruptness" more apparent