Bike Protection Mods Worth It???

Krabill wrote:

That picture is sweet! I went out to an ORV park last weekend and had 3 REALLY bone jarring hits on the bottom from some rocks I couldn't go around. I thank god I listened to everyone else and had a skid plate installed.

Quote :

If there is a lack of damage reports its because
we use protection. We will leave the damage posts to you

No further comments your honor.


This thread is dead. Everyone back to work. Unless you want to see what NOT to do.

KRABIL and ALL:

I'm not some risk happy inexperenced nut - just a guy looking for some DATA. At 67 years old and with many thousands of miles of off road riding and around 100 enduros and a half dozen 2-day qualifies I understand that "shit happens". My view is just that we have a tendency to SUBSTANTIALLY exadgerate the likelyhood of bad things happening. I have, at times, run minimal skid pans, and might do so again if I was going to ride way out in the rockey boonies a lot.

In my earlier post I asked for any data on damage to your WRRs. So far no such data/reports.

I'd imagine that the folks that have made the 300 views of this topic have collectively read virtually every post ever made on a fourm about WRRs. (10s of thousands of posts??? about thousands of WRRs???)

I understand that some have already added protection to their bikes. I'd GUESS that maybe 50%??? of WRR riders have skid pans but probably <10%??? have disk gurads, case guards and/or radiator guards. Even so this would mean that accross the entire WRR communty there are Thousands of folks with NO or only PARTIAL "protetcion" installed on their bikes.

In an attempt to find ANY DATA on WRR damage - I'm expanding my request for DATA on WRR damage to iclude ANY WRR damage anyone has ever seen evidence of (posts of fourms, ettc.) on ANY WRR! SO PLEASE POST THE DATA REPORTS HERE!


THANKS!
Thanks!

This

Ok, I only have about 1000 miles of mostly offroad WR use but here is my WR damage report; NONE. I have dumped my bike a few times and the mirrors are the only thing that has taken any type of damage. I've loosened them up so they will just go twirling around instead of bending and breaking. I JUST GOT my KTM folding mirrors that I will be folding inwards when I go offraod from now on so that won't be an issue anymore. And besides a couple scrapes on the front fender, that's about it. I'll let you now when I hit 10,000 miles though.

Looks like the ruling is out. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. When you spend over $7k on a new bike, have had previous experiences with other bikes due to lack of protection, you cover your assets and put it on. Like Rick said, $400 is nothing compared to what you're gonna put out in repairs and everything else over the life of the bike. I think we'll be waiting a long time to see if someone with an R² posts with damage due to no protection. Most of us who ride off road to any degree have armored our bikes to make sure that doesn't happen...and I can lay money on it that if someone who DOESN'T have armor on their bike and gets air conditioning in the bottom of their case by a horny rock is gonna be cussing that they didn't have protection...but by then it's too late and they'll be looking at more than buying a skidplate.

BigBird wrote:

In my earlier post I asked for any data on damage to your WRRs. So far no such data/reports.

On that ride where the KLX took a hit, there were three WRR's and one KLX. All three WRR's have full skid plates, so no, you aren't going to see that kind of damage from any of us. We're smart enough to protect ourselves.

A few pics of the rocks that took out the KLX . . . if you want to ride this kind of stuff w/o a skid plate, you're more than welcome to, but I'm not about to . . .





Now, if I were only riding back home in Michigan where it is nothing but sand and dirt with the occasional log thrown in, I might think about skipping the skid plate, but out here where they grow rocks instead of trees, I won't even turn off the pavement without one - and I know not everybody rides in the same type of terrain that we have out here.

For the rest of the protection - I don't have a rad guard, I don't have a front disc guard, I only have the plastic rear disc guard off the WR250F to keep the small dings at bay from all the gravel roads we have around here, and this is the first bike I've ever put hand guards on . . . and I really put them on more for wind protection and because the blinkers in the Zeta guards get me away from those massive stock front blinkers. A skid plate for me, however, is not an option . . . it is mandatory.

BigBird wrote:

In my earlier post I asked for any data on damage to your WRRs. So far no such data/reports.

I'd imagine that the folks that have made the 300 views of this topic have collectively read virtually every post ever made on a fourm about WRRs. (10s of thousands of posts??? about thousands of WRRs???)

I understand that some have already added protection to their bikes. I'd GUESS that maybe 50%??? of WRR riders have skid pans but probably <10%??? have disk gurads, case guards and/or radiator guards. Even so this would mean that accross the entire WRR communty there are Thousands of folks with NO or only PARTIAL "protetcion" installed on their bikes.

In an attempt to find ANY DATA on WRR damage - I'm expanding my request for DATA on WRR damage to iclude ANY WRR damage anyone has ever seen evidence of (posts of fourms, ettc.) on ANY WRR! SO PLEASE POST THE DATA REPORTS HERE!hanks!
his

First, at the end of the day, if you look at the number of users signed up on WR250 specific websites, I doubt that there are even enough of us signed up to form a sample population large enough to have statistical significance (pardon me, but my 4th year statistical analysis courses are a few years back in the past).

Now take out of the equation those who just lurk and seldom if ever post.

Now take out those who own the bike but never take it in harm's way - they don't contribute to whether or not the bike is at risk when being actually used as a dual sport bike.

You're talking about probability. I am not even going to begin to try and dredge up my understanding of statistical analysis (although it is a pretty cool field - the Allies figured out how many tanks the Germans were producing during WWII simply from field reports on destroyed German tanks on battlefields using Krieging analysis), but suffice it to say, I don't believe you are approaching the question you propose properly from the point of statistical analysis.

Challenging a group who mostly run skid plates to come up with reports of damage to their motors isn't going to come up with a lot of damage reports, don't you think?

If you want to generally explore the issue (as opposed to attempting a rigorous statistical analysis), poll the forums asking people if first of all, they take their bikes into harm's way - if you only ride on the highway and gravel roads or never in rocky, nasty turf, then obviously skid plates are irrelevant.

Then ask those who actually do take their bikes where the nasties lurk whether or not they run protective gear, and if they don't, whether or not they have suffered damage that protective gear would have prevented.

The beauty of the whole thing is that, at the end of the day, it's your bike. Nobody can force you to either put protective gear on or decide not to in order to save a few bucks and a few pounds. If you don't run protective gear and you damage your bike, lose some days on the ride of a lifetime, whatever, it's your loss, not mine. If I spend $400 on protective gear and never drop my bike on the bars, never dump onto the radiator side, never hit a rock, etc in ten years or so, then it is my "wasted" money (ignore the peace of mind value), not yours.

Having said all of that, I'm sure what works for you works for you, or you wouldn't be challenging us to see it as you do. But it will probably be a cold and frosty day in hell before you'll ever talk me into running my bike without the protective equipment that's on it right now. I've had one three day walk out of the mountains in the past. That was three decades ago, and I have no intention of ever doing that again if a piece of protective equipment will save my ass.

Once again Jager you put my thoughts exactly into words. I agree 100% with the above post.


Bigbrid, if you don't think protective parts are worth it then just dont buy them. However, I don't think you'll ever convince me (or anyone else on this forum) not to put them on our own bikes.

This thread is hugely entertaining. What I believe was BigBird's original intent was interesting, but the way that it has been perceived as "BigBird calling everyone with a skidplate a sucker" is the entertaining part. Everyone is getting a little defensive. I don't think anyone is asking you to justify your purchases or to bin the protection that you have bought.

The original idea, as I took it, was that riding a motorcycle is about stacking the deck in your favor in order to limit the risk. What risk? Well for some it might be to avoid becoming a hood ornament & for some it might be to avoid a 50 mile hike after you break the bike. There are no guarantees. Even with every piece of protection. Where you stack the deck the highest is definitely a personal thing. I thought that BigBird was looking for feedback as to what are the most vulnerable parts on our bikes so he could stack his deck accordingly. For example, on a scale of 1 to 10 for vulnerability is the radiator a 10? What if I don't ride in the rocks -- does it drop to a 6?

Anyway, I know that I use this forum to help make informed plans for me & my bike. I think the BigBird (and all of us) are trying to do the same. Don't dog pile me now.

if you are so worried about wasting money on protection, you'll be happy to know that it can be done cheaply. A skidplate is nothing more than a sheet of aluminum with a couple of bolt holes. Go down to your local metal supply shop, get a scrap piece of 6061 for about $10, throw it in the table vise and put a couple bends in it, and walla you have a skidplate. Same idea with case savers, I have seen people just epoxy or silicone a piece fiberglass or aluminum right onto the side of the case.

I still think a lot of it has to do with where and what type of terrain you're riding.

Sand = no skid plate

Rocks = skid plate

If you listen real close at the very end of this video after I pass the camera you can hear a nice loud "smack" . . . that's my skid plate saving my ass once again in the middle of nowhere . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKV-GlLD-wk

I personally have no use for the skidplate, handguards, or radiator guard I bought.

I just hope people will see them and think: "Man, that guy must be a hardcore rider, he has a skidplate, handguards, and a radiator guard".

Krabill wrote:

I still think a lot of it has to do with where and what type of terrain you're riding.

Sand = no skid plate

Rocks = skid plate

+1.

@Jagar - I see how that quote could fire folks up & you make a fine point. I wonder if it matters that the quoted post is after the fireworks started, rather than being part of the original post.

At any rate, it is good to see everyone is passion about the sport. For the record, if I was riding in rocks, like Krabill, I'd have me a skidplate (even if it was just to avoid scratches). I don't like scratches.

@MeefZAh - It absolutely works. When I saw that stuff, I thought, "What a bad ass!"

like others have said protection is not about risk assesment vrs $ spent,
it's about the difference of riding home vrs walking.

in the offroad world damage protection can NEVER be short changed.

I have not damaged my WR from trail incidents beyond a blown up headlight bulb from a mudhole dive. It did get a skid plate and hand guards before seeing any rough terrain as a result of lessons learned on prior bikes. Twice I have slammed rocks hard enough on the KLR to bend the plate until it almost touched the case and had to remove it to pound it back to shape with an 8 pound hammer. What are the odds that I would have broken the engine case in at least one of those incidents?

My CRF snapped a chain during a MX practice session, slicing a slit in the case despite having the rail type case guard that my Yamaha came with from the factory. The WR now has a plate type protector. Had the CRF been so equipped it would have prevented the slice. Lesson learned and applied.

Thing is, these work for me, your mileage and experience may vary. If no protection works for you, go for it. If more guards than I have works... again go for it. Your bike, your trip your risk and comfort zone.

This is a good thread for the personal and emotional responses elicited. Even though the OP asked for supporting data, the subject of insurance is far more emotional than empirical - at least for the buyer. Yes, I'm way over-insured, and a skid plate is on my short list.

Turning the topic slightly, but staying on subject - my first purchase after buying the bike will be knee braces. Not guards, but the serious, orthopedic type that are very expensive. Many twists and hyper-extensions have weakened my knees. It would foolish of me to think that I could ride in the dirt and not put a foot down badly. That will put a dent in my farkle budget, but it's in line with my risk assessment. I know how much the braces cost and weigh, but I don't know how to put a price on the potential pain and suffering of an injury or the disappointment of not being able to ride because of it.

Still over-insured? I hope so.

First, i should say i've never had any damage to my wr for lack of protection.. so i have no data to add to this compilation. However, i think that others' experiences with their bikes, even different models, is good enough evidence for me. There is nothing special about an unprotected wr that gives it an edge over another unprotected bike model. So statistical evidence from other bikes & owners regarding protection is still valid, imo.

Before i got the wr, i had a drz. One of the common protective mods was case savers that had been siliconed to the cases. Due to other owners' suggestions, i got them & put them on.. only $20 & negligible weight. They took many a ding & dent from my dumping the bike repeatedly, but held together. Then one time my bike fell over in the garage when the kickstand folded backward, & the shift lever knocked a hole in the case.. right through the case saver! I got a new case & knocked the dents out of the case saver & reinstalled. The moral of this story is not, 'Why bother with case savers since they don't fully protect, anyway." It is, "The drz cases are so vulnerable & feeble that even a case saver isn't going to do the job in all situations."

This is about risk management. I've never been one averse to risk. Most on this forum probably are in the same category. I don't bother with full coverage insurance, because i figure the risk of damages do not outweigh the cost of the insurance. For what full coverage insurance costs on a motorcycle, i can fix & replace many parts that would have been covered by the insurance. I haven't really needed a helmet in a long time.. no major get offs, so perhaps i could forgo wearing a helmet? No, protective gear for me is very important.. i also don't want to get injured in a simple get off, & i know from first hand experience how the gear protects me. The protective mods for the bike are like gear for me. They will protect the bike in most minor get offs. That's good enough for me. I know if i go over a cliff & drop a few hundred feet & burst into flames on the rocks below, the gear doesn't do much good. Like a lot of the harley guys who don't wear helmets say.. "the only difference in wearing a helmet is an open or closed casket funeral." This is true if you head on a semi at 80 mph, but not if you fall over at a stop. Then the difference is getting up & riding or eating from a tube the rest of your life.

Most of our crashes are in technical riding conditions, & at low speeds. Generally we get low impact collisions with rocks, stumps, trees, or other bikes. Many of my 'crashes' have been drops from a stop. In these situations, the simple gear for me & the bike enable me to pick it back up & go on with the ride, which is what i want to do, anyway.

Now if all i did was pavement & fire roads, i could get by with different gear both for me & the bike. So certainly part of risk management is considering the conditions you will be in. I don't have axle sliders or wear toe sliders, because those are low risk damages for me & the bike. But knowing how many times i've dumped my bike & the conditions i was in, i would not venture out without a skid plate, bark busters, helmet, gloves, boots, back, knee & elbow protection. Dressing a dirt biker up in full leather track gear is as absurd as dressing a track sport bike rider in dirt moto gear. Both are good gear for the right conditions.

Another good example of this is a roost protector. I have one, but seldom wear it. I don't ride in conditions that warrant it. I don't race.. no one in front of me is that close i need to dodge their roost. A good ventilated jacket is more practical for my style of adventure riding, so that's what i wear. But if i were to ride on a track with rocks flying around, i'd have on the roost guard.

Basically, we take a risk every time we saddle up on the bike, wherever we're riding. We consider the risks, & dress accordingly. Some people take more risks, either with themselves, their bikes, or others around them. We live & learn, or we live & repeat our mistakes. Sometimes we don't live. c'est la vie.

Update on KISS Skip Pan

What I have done is made a simple flat "plate" out of lexan that attaches to the bike much like the aluminum skid plate Yamaha sells. It covers the frame rails but does not extend beyond them. I then made extensions to the white plastic wings that come stock on the bike out of a left over white hand guard. The added pieces of hand guard materiel fit inside the OEM plastic wings and extend up and back to protect/cushion the water hose and the various protruding engine parts from a direct impact with a rock - but they fit very close to the bike. They are held on with zip ties.

Cost = almost nil Weight = a few ounces Increase in the size/width of the bottom of the bike = 1/8" Increase in noise = None

So far I've run 2 rocky Dual Sport events with this setup - including the VERY rocky "AA" option at the Shenandoah 500 last week with no problems - but as they say "time will tell" Just to clarify - my intent is more to keep the weight down and the profile of the bike small than to save the $ as I haven't skimped on upgrades such at Q4 + Megabomb, Scotts Stabilizer, PCV with Autotune, etc.

If it's a cost/benefit thingy then I don't think $400 (over the life of the bike or possibly longer) and 5 lbs. is very costly. And that assumes you get the whole works.

On the benefit side, "peace of mind" while less tangible is a benefit none the less.

I rode the first 5K miles without a skid plate. I would cring and pray everytime I heard something smash into the engine area or after I dropped her. Now I don't (or to a much less degree).

You are arguing - quite well btw - that "peace of mind" is an irrational benefit because the risk is in reality very low. But it is clearly not zero.

I especially agree with those who have priced in their minds "save the ride" very high. Big rides for most of us are rare (time) and expensive (logistics, missed work) therefore losing one to bike failure is very costly. And the cost may be compounded by dragging your friends down with you.

How do you price ruining your friends vacation or dream trip because you wanted to save $80 and 4 lbs of weight?

I think you and others are VASTLY undvalueing WEIGHT. IF Yamaha could knock 40 lbs off of the WRR without giving up anything else the bike would be about the lightest 4 stroke street legal bike in the world and worth a fortune.

By FAR the biggest problem with the bike is its weight and I don't see compounding that problem by ADDING weight.

5 lbs is 1/8 of that 40 lbs. KTM makes parts out of magnesium to keep the weight down. I could only guess how much it would cost to substitute enough magnesium for aluminum to save 5 lbs???

Many people will spend $100 on something like aluminum bars to save less than a pound.

I don't know the rule of thumb for dirt MCs but for bicycles it used to be $1 per gram. Thus it cost (or was worth) approximately $1000 to reduce the weight of a bike by 2.2 lbs

BUT each to his/her own!

Sam, since when do you worry about weight?



Sorry I missed the ride.

BigBird wrote:

I think you and others are VASTLY undvalueing WEIGHT. IF Yamaha could knock 40 lbs off of the WRR without giving up anything else the bike would be about the lightest 4 stroke street legal bike in the world and worth a fortune.

By FAR the biggest problem with the bike is its weight and I don't see compounding that problem by ADDING weight.

5 lbs is 1/8 of that 40 lbs. KTM makes parts out of magnesium to keep the weight down. I could only guess how much it would cost to substitute enough magnesium for aluminum to save 5 lbs???

Many people will spend $100 on something like aluminum bars to save less than a pound.

I don't know the rule of thumb for dirt MCs but for bicycles it used to be $1 per gram. Thus it cost (or was worth) approximately $1000 to reduce the weight of a bike by 2.2 lbs

BUT each to his/her own!

A pound off of a bicycle is in a different world from a pound off of a motorcycle. Simple weight reduction does not make a bike any faster through the woods, over the mountain, or in the mud. Besides, we are not all in races on every ride.

Adding pointless weight would be (pardon the redundancy) pointless. Adding protective weight I.E. eight ounces of hand-guards in all likelihood saved my ride in Oregon. I dropped the WR 2,000 miles from home hard enough to bend the bars and tweak the hand-guard. It all moved enough to curl the brake lever a bit. However... the brake lever did not break, so I was able to continue.

You want to take five pounds off your bike? Lose five pounds!

ed29 - I generally agree with your post and I DO have handguards on my dirt bikes (but not the GL1800) and I DO need to loose at least 5 lbs :>)

However I find that every extra pound on the bike makes it MUCH harder to pick up when you're OLD like me!

With the little KTM it's relatively easy to pick up but then I have to KICK start it

With the WRR IF I can pick it up the Magic Button is WONDERFUL!

PS: It looks like the Average cost per pound for weight loss is ~ $108 just using the cost and savings proided by the substitute items listed in the weight savings sticky on this forum.

OZ. Cost $/LB

36 $480 $213 •Replacement of stock battery with VoltPhreaks lightweight battery($480) -36oz(voltphreaks)

56 $230 $66 •Replacement of stock battery with Gybe SuperB 230($??): - to -56oz(Gybe)

28 $100 $57 •Replacement of rear tail light/blinkers with DRZ setup ($100): -27.9oz

19 $70 $59 •Replacement of rear sprocket with Renthal Ultralight sprocket ($70): -19.0oz

8 $110 $220 •Replacement of factory US spec headlight and shroud with Japanese spec headlight and shroud ($110): -7.6oz


147 $990 $108