stock tires on the trail

I just got back from a ride on the bike trail at Allegheny National Forest in Marienville Pa. 2 days ago I took off the tire I had on the rear,(Pirelli Garacross), and put the stock tire back on the rear to see how much difference there was between the 2 tires. I arose early today and took off, forgetting about that swap, to the Bike Trail. If any have been to the bike trail you know it is as difficult as any Hare Scramblescourses, at least the ones I have ever raced ---except for a couple that were TERRIBLE. The rear Bridgestone was a star on the rocks----REALLY IT WAS. I could not believe the grip that tire had over the boulders. There is about 4 miles of trail there that is nothing but rock garden--uphill downhill everywhere and is very draining on an old guy like me,(53). Got me to wondering if it was because there is so much rubber on the tire, perhaps that gives it more grip on rocks. Honestly that tire went up and over rocks that had my real knobbies spinning like crazy. It also did not do too bad in the mud either. I am very surprised. Maybe I am going to try a TRIALS tire soon. I have a Bridgestone ED04 coming Monday and am anxious to try that tire also. Anybody have similar experience or some knowledge why it preformed so well. I just got it-----IT WAS ME I MUST BE REAL GOOD. LOL. wilburj

Probably because you were riding over hard rocks, and not anything softer that would require a tire knob to be stuck into it.
Get yourself in that situation (or even wet grass) and write another post about the Trail Wings.
Then, again, you thought they were not so bad in mud... :)

I think they're just fine on the street.

I never really had a problem with the stock rear in the dirt. It just didn't last very long. My problem with the stock tires off-road was with the front. That sucker will slide out on you with no warning.

Krabill wrote:

I never really had a problem with the stock rear in the dirt. It just didn't last very long. My problem with the stock tires off-road was with the front. That sucker will slide out on you with no warning.

Try riding with an Michelin AC-10 on wet pavement. It's like putting a large block of ice between your forks, lol.

It's a helluva tire off-road though, so I take it easy on the pavement.

I've been happy with my stock tires. Ahh but ignorance is bliss, and I have no dirt tire experience to the contrary. I mostly ride on hard, rocky terrain though. A trials tire should be even better for what you describe, traction-wise. The soft compound that makes trials tires sticky also doesn't wear well on the street...probably not off the street either for that matter. I will say that my recent ride through gravel washes gained the stock tires no favor. I never fell, but the feeling was pretty disconcerting.

I've already decided that the vaunted D606 will be my next tire, along with 3 or 4 more teeth of rear sprocket to more than compensate for its increased diameter over the Trailwings. I have been pleased with the stock tires' pavement performance, so I hope the 606's are decent in that regard because I have to cover a fair amount of asphalt.

I think you and I have the same exact requirements and the same exact conclusions :)

Let me know if/when you get the 606.. I think I may spring for a pair after I do my gearing this or next month.

Are you going with a 46 or a 47 sprocket? I'm thinking 47 for two reasons:

1. I'm about 220 - 230 in gear, NOT counting all the shit I bring along, like tools
2. A 47 will use the same chain length as a 48 (I believe?), so I could always go up. But a 46 requires a shorter chain (I think!), so I couldn't go up to a 47 if I wanted to.

Am I missing something?

Boondocker wrote:

I've already decided that the vaunted D606 will be my next tire, along with 3 or 4 more teeth of rear sprocket to more than compensate for its increased diameter over the Trailwings. I have been pleased with the stock tires' pavement performance, so I hope the 606's are decent in that regard because I have to cover a fair amount of asphalt.

The 606 is an awesome tire. They were the last set I had on and they gave me great return. Really good all-around DS tire.

Don't you run a tire right now that you said (a while back) kicks the 606 in the hiney? Both onroad and offroad? If you do run such a tire, what is it? And how is the life?

As I posted elsewhere, I need a tire that's going to wear well (or at least decently) on the highway, since I need to do at least 30 miles of slab one way to get to dirt. The 606 sounded like the ticket, but then I heard you growling in the corner and I'm not longer sure :)

SheWolf wrote:

The 606 is an awesome tire. They were the last set I had on and they gave me great return. Really good all-around DS tire.

I haven't decided on 46 or 47 yet, but then I'm only 260 pages through the 658 pages of the ADV Monster Thread

Even though I don't like the 12-tooth CS sprocket solution, basically for wear reasons, I might do it anyway until I get new tires. Then I'll go with a 13/46-47 + new chain. I hate to throw away non-worn out/busted parts. They're not that bad. Of course I did replace nearly new stock handlebars and clamps for the full HDB package.

I'll be posting up to that thread when I get the comparo pics done.

In general, I favor low gearing. I had a Suzuki Samurai with 4.56:1 ring & pinon with full lockers and a 4:1 transfer case. With all of 62 horsepower and mild AT tires, it crawled like a spider and could still hold 65 mph on the highway. By comparison, my Jeep Grand Cherokee, with 5.2L V8 is over-geared. I have to say, that bothers me more than the under-geared, under-powered Samurai ever did. So you can see which way I'm leaning. I think 13/48 will get tedious doing hours on the highway that I expect to do when I get luggage and fuel capacity sorted out. There's enough DS riding opportunity in the vicinity of Las Vegas, but to get out of town is like 150-mile minimum.
I'm trying to reign in the spending for while, but I've been drinking too much R² Koolaid

Mr.Metal wrote:

I think you and I have the same exact requirements and the same exact conclusions :)

Let me know if/when you get the 606.. I think I may spring for a pair after I do my gearing this or next month.

Are you going with a 46 or a 47 sprocket? I'm thinking 47 for two reasons:

TRIALS tire soon

If you ride in PA you need to run a trials to eat up the rocks... And they do real well in mud as long as it's not really deep. All the really old and fast guys run them... If I was not sooooo poor I would be to.... Lots of then will be used in the Shotgun Enduro and it's is always a wet one so they say...

I = MA coupled with the object in motion theorem and life (almost regardless of tire - "Surface friction") is good provided you keep it all pointed in the "correct" direction.

Unfortunately going the other direction (braking) isn't always a comparable experience

Mr.Metal wrote:

Don't you run a tire right now that you said (a while back) kicks the 606 in the hiney? Both onroad and offroad? If you do run such a tire, what is it? And how is the life?

As I posted elsewhere, I need a tire that's going to wear well (or at least decently) on the highway, since I need to do at least 30 miles of slab one way to get to dirt. The 606 sounded like the ticket, but then I heard you growling in the corner and I'm not longer sure :)

SheWolf wrote:

The 606 is an awesome tire. They were the last set I had on and they gave me great return. Really good all-around DS tire.

Yes I am running the Mitas StoneEaters and they beat the 606 all to hell off road and onroad (onroad traction on dry pavement is incredible, wet pavement the 606 is a bit better...wear, I think the 606 is a bit better so far). The 606 will definitely do it for you, the Mitas will too. My highway trips are usually over 50 and my speed is up there, both tires hold their own. Big difference is the price, IMO. You pay half on a Mitas than what you would on the 606.

Tammy wrote:

All the really old and fast guys run them...

Um Tammy when I look in the mirror I do not see a REALLY OLD GUY. In fact I see a man who is only a couple months older than when he graduated high school. Ok Ok perhaps a whole lot less hair and perhaps 50 or so pounds heavier**********but still a stud that is as good once as I ever was----my wife carol told me I was allowed to say this stuff thanks Carol. wilburj

While we are at it has there been much experience on this forum with the Bridgestone ED 04?? I like the looks and will have one on Monday, hopefully it does a good job on the rocks, as I am using that rocky trail to train for at least one race this year--- wilburj

Well, hell... then why would I go with the 606s? It sounds like I should be looking at the Mitas instead

By the way... today I changed my mind about the stock tires. We went on a pretty cool DS ride around some mountain forest roads. At one point, there was a short water crossing, followed by a sharp left and a very short uphill to get over the edge of some dirt. I crossed the water no problem, but I dropped my goddamn WRR 5 times trying to make it up that f'n edge. Couldn't do it. Had to have the two other guys help me power-walk it up. How embarrassing

I know it was my lack of speed, lack of skill, and lack of confidence. However, I don't think the tires helped. I felt like I had no grip in the somewhat muddy dirt-and-rock climb. Gah

SheWolf wrote:

Yes I am running the Mitas StoneEaters and they beat the 606 all to hell off road and onroad (onroad traction on dry pavement is incredible, wet pavement the 606 is a bit better...wear, I think the 606 is a bit better so far). The 606 will definitely do it for you, the Mitas will too. My highway trips are usually over 50 and my speed is up there, both tires hold their own. Big difference is the price, IMO. You pay half on a Mitas than what you would on the 606.

I usually ride about 80% road to get to interesting places offroad, so the stock tires work well for me. I used the WRR to run up and down the gravel/rock/asphault road up Holston Mountain in east Tennessee last week, and it worked well.

Mr.Metal wrote:

Well, hell... then why would I go with the 606s? It sounds like I should be looking at the Mitas instead

By the way... today I changed my mind about the stock tires. We went on a pretty cool DS ride around some mountain forest roads. At one point, there was a short water crossing, followed by a sharp left and a very short uphill to get over the edge of some dirt. I crossed the water no problem, but I dropped my goddamn WRR 5 times trying to make it up that f'n edge. Couldn't do it. Had to have the two other guys help me power-walk it up. How embarrassing

I know it was my lack of speed, lack of skill, and lack of confidence. However, I don't think the tires helped. I felt like I had no grip in the somewhat muddy dirt-and-rock climb. Gah

SheWolf wrote:

Yes I am running the Mitas StoneEaters and they beat the 606 all to hell off road and onroad (onroad traction on dry pavement is incredible, wet pavement the 606 is a bit better...wear, I think the 606 is a bit better so far). The 606 will definitely do it for you, the Mitas will too. My highway trips are usually over 50 and my speed is up there, both tires hold their own. Big difference is the price, IMO. You pay half on a Mitas than what you would on the 606.

It's kinda like trying to stuff an oyster into a slot machine....

Wait... what? :)

SheWolf wrote:

It's kinda like trying to stuff an oyster into a slot machine....

Mr.Metal wrote:

At one point, there was a short water crossing, followed by a sharp left and a very short uphill to get over the edge of some dirt. I crossed the water no problem, but I dropped my goddamn WRR 5 times trying to make it up that f'n edge.
I know it was my lack of speed, lack of skill, and lack of confidence. However, I don't think the tires helped. I felt like I had no grip in the somewhat muddy dirt-and-rock climb. Gah

Wasn't lack of speed. With 606's or the like, you could have stopped in the middle of the hill...started, and kept going.

*look at me talking like i know, you know, i know where you are talking about.

Well, I can't place all the blame on the tires. I am a n00b and it shows. I know the bike is capable of a LOT more than I am comfortable with at this time. The two guys I was with both rode my WRR and both of them jumped it and hauled ass. Me? Slow, slow, putter, putter. I'm just not there yet. But, it'd be helpful to have more grippy tires for sure.

By the way, this was off of exit 38 on I-90, you may be familiar with that area?

inspector wrote:

Wasn't lack of speed. With 606's or the like, you could have stopped in the middle of the hill...started, and kept going.

*look at me talking like i know, you know, i know where you are talking about.

Bwahaha....yes, i know the little creek with the large drainage pipe, left up the embankment which 4x4's use. LOL.

*I went that way before there was a trail. took me almost an hour to get up the overgrown embankment at the time.

Yep, that's the one! That's kinda impressive that you were able to figure that out from my first, vague description

I keep going over the incident in my head, trying to figure out where I went wrong. I really think that if I got on the throttle more I could have made it up.

Have you ever went into the "play area" that's by the power line towers a little further up the main forest road? It's a little further up from the turn you would take to go up the forest road to the river crossing. It's a neat little place to practice. That's where I realized just how slow and n00b I am. I was with a guy on a KTM 950 and a guy on a GS1200, both of whom were ripping that area up. Me? Putter, putter. I want to go back there and practice more. Maybe I'll finally get over my mental block and accelerate over bumps and ruts, instead of slowing the hell down.

inspector wrote:

Bwahaha....yes, i know the little creek with the large drainage pipe, left up the embankment which 4x4's use. LOL.

*I went that way before there was a trail. took me almost an hour to get up the overgrown embankment at the time.

Hey what happened to this thread??? looks kinda like it got hi-jacked Just got my ED04 will put in on tonight and the report as ordered sir. wilburj

My bad

Honestly, though, my experience has lead to me needing new tires, as opposed to just thinking about them. So, that's kinda tire-related

wilburj wrote:

Hey what happened to this thread??? looks kinda like it got hi-jacked Just got my ED04 will put in on tonight and the report as ordered sir. wilburj

I had a hijack one now where did I stick it....