Loud Pipes - Laws Against

This is why we need to police ourselves. If we don't do it - others will.

80 db's is really really damn quiet.

Quote :

CALABASAS, Calif. – The laid-back vibe of this affluent Los Angeles suburb gets a jarring wakeup on weekends when hundreds of motorcycles thunder through the Santa Monica Mountains, triggering car alarms, rattling windows and jolting alive barking dogs.

"They rev their engines with complete disregard for the people who live here," complained neighborhood resident Tonia Aery. "It's obnoxious."

Aery's wish for peace and quiet could come true after the state Senate passed a bill this month that would make it a motor vehicle violation to ride a roaring hog. The only catch is that the decision now falls to the state's biker-in-chief, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, an avid motorcyclist.

Schwarzenegger's fellow riders — still bitter over an 18-year-old state law requiring helmets — are hoping he'll veto the law.

The bill targets motorcyclists who remove factory-installed emission control devices mandated by the U.S. government and replace them with custom, after-market parts that often make their bikes louder — and, consequently, dirtier. If passed, motorcycles would be required to bear the proper U.S. Environmental Protection Agency label certifying that the exhaust system is clean burning and does not exceed 80 decibels — about the same as a vacuum cleaner.

At least six cities, including Denver, Boston and the state of Oregon have passed similar noise-prevention laws, but muffling motorcycles here could have symbolic impact.

The Hells Angels started here, so did the raucous motorcycle rallies in Hollister that inspired "The Wild One," the 1953 Marlon Brando movie that cemented bikers' rebellious image in American pop culture.

"It's another example of government intrusion into our lifestyle," said Mike Levison, president of the Southern California Harley Riders Association.

The bill by Sen. Fran Pavley would fine first-time offenders up to $100, but their ticket could be voided if they make corrections. Subsequent infractions would be subject to fines of $100 to $250.

For years, residents in Pavley's district have complained about bikes that rumble along Pacific Coast Highway and echo through the twisting canyons of Malibu, Calabasas and Agoura Hills.

Last year, Pavley, D-Agoura Hills, tried to close a loophole in the state law that exempts motorcycles from pollution standards by mandating smog inspections every two years. Vocal motorcyclists helped defeat the bill so she amended it to target noise. If signed, the bill will effectively make the state's 826,000 registered motorcycles meet air pollution requirements by meeting noise standards.

Federal and state laws that limit motorcycle noise already exist, but Pavley said enforcement is lax because it's impractical to outfit police with noise-monitoring instruments.

"It's already illegal to modify the pipe to make your bike louder," Pavley said. "So this is not a new law, it's enforcement of an existing law."

California Highway Patrol Officer Leland Tang, whose Woodland Hills office regularly fields complaints about noisy bikes, noted that state law prohibits drivers from modifying their cars' exhaust system to make the engine louder. But bikers can dodge the ordinance because the Bureau of Automotive Repair, which inspects vehicles to ensure their exhaust systems are in compliance, is not set up to inspect motorcycles.

Bikers fear the legislation would put a crimp in more than their tailpipes and could prevent them from customizing their motorcycles because makers of aftermarket parts — faced with the daunting task of having to list every make and model their parts can be used for — could go out of business.

"We're never going to advocate breaking the law, what we're trying to advocate is reasonable choices to allow consumers to customize their vehicles," said Imre Szauter, government affairs manager for American Motorcyclist Association.

Pavley said the EPA stamp will be required for motorcycles made after 2013, giving enough time for parts makers to comply.

Even motorcyclists known for sounding off on their boisterous peers think the new law is a bad idea.

"This bill doesn't directly address the noise issue, it just regulates what you can purchase for your bike," said Don Amador, whose Quiet Warrior Riding consulting firm advocates riding with sound-compliant equipment. He suggests that authorities adopt a decibel test to measure actual noise output.

Schwarzenegger, who has until Sept. 30 to decide, has not taken a position on the legislation, said spokesman Aaron McLear. The governor, whose most famous movie image depicts him as gun-toting, motorcycle-riding cyborg in "The Terminator" series, has a bike collection and sometimes rides around the Malibu hills with his pals.

McLear said he didn't know if Schwarzenegger's motorcycles meet federal noise requirements.

The bill's not the first time Schwarzenegger has faced the prospect of being in the hot saddle over something that would affect his lifestyle. Earlier this year, the governor known for puffing on expensive cigars vetoed legislation that would have banned smoking at all California state parks and beaches. He said the bill crossed the line of government intrusion.

On the other hand, Schwarzenegger received environmental kudos for signing Pavley's landmark global warming law imposing stronger regulations on greenhouse gas emissions.

Mike Levison, the Harley rider, said he gets annoyed by loud hogs, but thinks peer pressure's a better way to quiet loud bikes. In the past, he's banished loud bikes to the back of the pack.

"Guys revving up their noisy pipes remind me of my 8-year-old grandson. Every time he jumps in the pool he yells 'Hey Grandpa, look at me! Look at me!'" the retired businessman said. "They're making noise to get attention. It's no wonder the public has come down on us because of these idiots."

I can't blame them for this - the Harley crowd needs to tone it down, since there is no reason other than style to have a bike as loud as the ones that cruise around my house.

That said, 80db is very quiet - not sure a R2 with a FMF would pass a 80db test.

It's easy to pick on the Harley crowd. Same goes for sportbike riders too.

But I've read a lot of posts on numerous forums in regards to single cylinder SUMO's and dual sports that poo-poo any idea of stealthy exhaust notes.

Most are seeking absolute power and openly disregard any consideration for noise level.

My FmF Q4 would not pass 80 db's. I think they are rated at 92db's????

I don't understand how some of you can pontificate on this topic. The archives will show page after page of drivel about aftermarket pipes, all of which are louder than stock. All of which draw negative attention from other trail users and are a factor in getting some trails closed to us.

That said the same sort of law should apply to the tomato can "muffers" on the Asian sedans, jake brakes on trucks and on and on. Noise is noise.

I used to live just outside of Calabasas. When i was growing up in Southern California. The city is very high dollar living if you know what i mean. A lot of celebrities live there. Anyways, to get to some of the best canyon roads you have to go through that city. It also doesn't help that they have a huge bar and grill that is almost dedicated to the Doctor, Attorney, etc..... type Harley riders.

Calabasas is also one of the few cities in the US where you can't smoke a cigerette, unless you're in a designated area.


As for the noise crap laws, i live in Denver, and they passed that law a couple of years ago. Not one friend i know has had any issues. Real simple.... Don't rev the shit out of your bike at every red light and/or stop sign you'll be fine.

moto noise is the number one complaint from people who vote... eventually voters rule and politicians don't care whether motorcycles are banned or not as long as they stay in office. So if you want to see more and more laws, public land access closures, more and more restrictions.... pull off your quiet pipes and install loud ones. Call it crap if you want but it's real and it's coming. Pretty soon the only place you will be able to rev up a loud engine is in a sound proof room inside your garage. Lots of riders don't care and will ruin the whole thing for the rest of us. We clearly don't have the votes to win the debate.

Hi All:

My take although I am more of a purist than most. You do not hear a cars exhaust so why should you hear bikes? Should someone walking down the streets have to listen to us when they do not want to?

On a recent review ride behind the windscreen of the 2010 BMW R 1200 GS and GS Adventure, the big GS’ are now louder than in the past thanks to a controllable exhaust flap that adds a deeper note. Something almost as intrusive as a Ducati in fact. Add the Akrapovic muffler and it’s a sound I did not particularly care to hear for 2,000 miles. The other reviewer loved it and brought up that it’s a marketing decision in order to compete with the Harley’s and Ducati’s of the world with an exhaust note all their own. I on the other hand believe the noise is something that we all have to listen to, not just the owner and the quieter the bike, the better off for everyone.

I have heard the pop pop pop of an FMF on a WR and for the 1 to 2 HP increase in power which is likely not even felt in the real world, it intrudes on others senses in a manner that it should not. The quieter a bike is the less chance of an outright ban. I am sure you do not want to hear a Harley or a piped up WR roaring down the street at 05:30 AM and I am pretty sure nobody else does either.

Regarding putting aftermarket manufacturers out of business, it surely will. If they cannot meet the specs, they will have to find some other fruitful means of income besides creating loud pipes.

Motokid, that was a really good article and thanks for posting.

Wayne

I run an FMF and I ( as in me, myself...) want to hear the engine when riding offroad. Not so much on road. I agree that it probably has trouble meeting the AMA spec at half throttle. I would like tuning options but have not seen them yet. Did I miss them, the cone jobs or whatever?

It's a double edged sword though isn't it?

How many would buy a wr/r or wr/x if they were forced to leave it in it's choked-up restricted stock form?
I might not have.

I personally don't think the FmF Q4 is overly loud.
I leave my house for work at about 4:55am - 5:00am everyday.
None of my neighbors has complained to me yet about my exhaust. I do my best to putt-putt out of the neighborhood.

I also try not to pass other cars at extreme rpm's and/or just make noise for the sake of it.

I don't want my motorcycle to sound like my (100% stock in every way) Honda Civic.
I also don't want it to sound like a vacuum cleaner.

That being said - people have every right to complain about a wide variety of noises from many motorcycles I've witnessed over the years.

Oh I agree that some folks are just being obstinate about having straight pipes. Believe me I live on the main bike route to the tallest mountain in the lower 48 so I hear them all. Ask our state's ferry loader guys what they think of loading bikes with straight pipes and I bet you will get more that an ear full as they do.

It's just "do not do onto others as you would not have them do onto you" for me... but then I like engines so I am more tolerant. That said I would like a tunable option for what dissonance I have about it.

The bike isn't 80db quiet stock. If the law goes in to effect, it will effectively ban just about every motorcycle from being sold in California.

It's amazing that people that doesn't care about intruding into other's lifestyle care so much about government doing so.

I just hope the enforcement will be on all vehicules. And it's not just the vehicules that make noise. There are some lawnmowers that do a lot to.

It feels like there is a mood against motorcycle and this mood is in Europe as well as in North America. Any reason will be used. Since motorcycle drivers are a minority we don't have the same political power that the non motorcycle drivers have. Everyone of us should take care of people close to whom they drive.

I kinda like the noise from loud bikes.

gatorfan wrote:

I kinda like the noise from loud bikes.

That's not the point.

Can you understand how others might not like it?

How do you feel about very loud music? Perhaps a variety of music you don't like?
Or loud construction noises?
Car alarms going off?
Firecrackers going off at odd hours when totally unexpected?

Can you get how young parents with newborn babies might not appreciate the very loud motorcycle waking their sleeping infant up?

Or how old people with hearing aides might actually feel pain from excessive db's when caught off-guard?

What loud sounds do you not like?

You know, what's interesting to note...if they are going to start whacking pee-pee's because of noise with bikes...(and yes, I agree there are some really idiotic individuals out there who LOVE to have loud bikes) they are overlooking a lot of cagers out there that are just as loud if not louder than that. Not saying it's right, or shuffling off the intent of the complaints with loud bikes, but in all honesty, there are a lot of noisy VEHICLES out there PERIOD. Take those "Fast and Furious" wannabe morons with their juiced up rice grinders, toting those annoying fart cans they call mufflers. Then the straight pipe diesel pickups (the ones who mount them in behind the cab, coming thru the box and up are fucking retarded...can you say WANNABE TRUCKER?! ) or just plain old junker with absolutely NO exhaust. Holy hell, there are a lot of ugly noisy things running around out there! I agree, 80 dB is quiet for a vehicle, and I'm on the fence with you, Dave. If they try doing that most motorcycles won't be allowed on the road.

SheWolf wrote:

If they try doing that most motorcycles won't be allowed on the road.

That's probably the ultimate goal sometime down the road.

My bike with FMF Powercore 4 and powerbomb header is much quieter than most imports, full size trucks, and harleys where I live.
I don't ride around in traffic giving everyone the pipe for no reason.
Never had a complaint about noise level from neighbors or anyone.

motokid wrote:

gatorfan wrote:

I kinda like the noise from loud bikes.

That's not the point.

Can you understand how others might not like it?

How do you feel about very loud music? Perhaps a variety of music you don't like?
Or loud construction noises?
Car alarms going off?
Firecrackers going off at odd hours when totally unexpected?

Can you get how young parents with newborn babies might not appreciate the very loud motorcycle waking their sleeping infant up?

Or how old people with hearing aides might actually feel pain from excessive db's when caught off-guard?

What loud sounds do you not like?

Motokid, please take this reply in the friendly spirit it is intended:

There are a great many annoyances in life. However, I have a live and let live attitude. As much as I'd like to strangle the guy next to me at an intersection booming rap music into my vehicle, I don't seek government prohibitions against such things. Why? Because like loud pipes waking infants or startling granny, they are in reality, very rare things. There is way too much regulation already. I was pulled over for standing up on my pegs during a 4 hour ride across the Florida panhandle. Didn't even know there was a law against it. IMO it's not the pipes people don't like, it's YOU AND WHAT YOU REPRESENT (think helmet laws).

You caution us to "police ourselves". I'd say "stick together" and beware of "the tyranny of the majority".

Along these lines, consider these large dual sport rides where the school marms who run these things hector everybody about "responsible riding". As if 50 motorcycles plowing together through forests and fields then down Main Street for a couple of beers (with "responsible pipes"!) is better than one guy with a loud pipe.

Bottom line is .... messy freedom is better than messy regulation.

Cheers mate.

I understand the "live and let live" philosophy - but it also has it's limitations.

How would you feel if your neighbor decided to start breeding skunks?

Those who are striking out against noise pollution feel that their rights are being infringed upon.
Much like smoking in restaurants and inside public buildings.

Do you want strip clubs, adult novelty stores, or gay bars across the street from elementary schools?

I'm not soap-boxing that we are all in the wrong here.

Just pointing out that we are all biased about this issue to some level, and perhaps it's something we need to consider as a community unto ourselves before the voting public gets annoyed enough to pass laws against us.

Where I live (Delaware) they do use a decible meter to check motorcycle exhaust levels. They do fail many motorcycles and require them to fix the issue before they can pass inspection and legally be on the road. This is checked every two years or so.

My Q4 has not been put to the test yet. My stock muffler passed without question.

I'd hate to see the maximum allowable db level lowered below what the stock muffler can achieve.

If this law come to pass, I do believe people will start looking new states to live. Not just this law, but there are others like gun amuntion regulation and weed being legal and having the right to smoke it almost anywhere. Wait, I thought this liberal state was about a drug free enviroment???

Listen, I love where I grew up in cali, I have alot of memories and my family. But this state is getting closer where people are afraid or cant afford to go out and do things cause there are so many regulations being put in place. The government is eventually going to regulate so much that honestly we might as well be living in organic huts. So I myself am considering moving to other states in the future.

Now in saying that Im not wanting to move because of family. But even my own dad is fustrated with it all and he is a gentle man. I like my guns, motorcycles and own life. But we have gotten to a point in this country where we literally cry at the drop of a hat and anything you do could end in a lawsuit. I do obey by the law even if I don't agree, but I think this law honestly could give less than 2 cents about it. There is way more tearing this state apart then a db law. Oh like just financially screwed forever. Im with you gatorfan just live, cause honestly once this state finally goes under completley none of this shit will matter and I wont be here.

Can't find a "true news source" on this yet, but....

it passed and has been signed <-- clicky

Quote :

California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed Senate Bill 435 yesterday that will authorize state law enforcement to ticket motorcyclists who have swapped out their stock pipes for non-EPA-approved aftermarket exhaust.

The new law will make it a crime to operate a motorcycle manufactured after January 1, 2013, that does not meet federal noise-emission standards. Motorcycles will be required to display a U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) label certifying that the exhaust system is clean burning and does not exceed 80 decibels. First-time offenders will face fines up to $100 while subsequent infractions can run up to $250.

Wow....glad I don't live in California.

Who makes "EPA approved" aftermarket exhausts?
Who makes an aftermarket, or even a stock exhaust that comes in under 80 dB's?

who in the world made the decision of 80 db's? I agree with your thoughts on this motokid. I also take it easy around town, especially during certain hours of the day and neighborhoods. There are many idiots out there who DO NOT care at all .. Im not sure what they are thinking, if they are not thinking of something like this, then they are probably the type who also do not care much about safety and give us a bad name in other areas .. if they have to do something, then I think they should come up with something more reasonable, something that would take care of the extreme

motokid wrote:

Who makes "EPA approved" aftermarket exhausts?

No one. Currently, the only EPA approved exhaust would be the OEM one.

This is not only an issue in CA. I have heard that in Boston & Denver the LEO's check for the EPA stamp & fine accordingly. I don't live in either place so I cannot confirm. But what starts in Cali, doesn't always stay there. I am keeping the OEM exhaust although I hope I never need to reinstall it.

I live in Boston and have never had an issue .. my bike is super quiet compared to some of the harley's and sport bikes around here .. I guess its not enforced .. funny, Im planning to move to Denver area next year .. hope its not enforced there

Redundant law is redundant.