Help with new purchase of wr250r.

Hello, I am new to the forum. I am considering purchasing a WR250R and a KLX250S for my wife. I live in NY and was wondering what I should be expecting to pay at 2 local dealerships that both sell Yamaha & Kawasaki. I have $6k to put down and want to purchase 2 bikes.

As far as price goes that depends on the financing fees.
My opinion.....buy 2 WR's!

bt0515 wrote:

Hello, I am new to the forum. I am considering purchasing a WR250R and a KLX250S for my wife. I live in NY and was wondering what I should be expecting to pay at 2 local dealerships that both sell Yamaha & Kawasaki. I have $6k to put down and want to purchase 2 bikes.

I got my '08 WR250R for about $4k out the door two years ago. You might find some deals like that still if there are any 08's or 09's left out there, but I doubt you'll find them walking into local dealerships. Whether you do or don't, it still won't leave a lot left over out of that budget of yours for the second bike.

As I see it, you have two choices:
1. Shop like a bastard all over the country, looking for the bikes that occasionally show up barely used for around $3K.
2. Accept you aren't going to get the two bikes you want at the budget you want, and put more money in.

I'd suggest you consider going with two Yammies - or even two Kawies. Interchangeability of parts, one bike to learn to wrench on, etc. I rode both bikes a fair bit before choosing the Yammie, and one of my riding partners has the KLX and we regularly switch (he seems to always want to ride my bike for a bit for some reason or other). Still no question in my mind which is the nicer of the two bikes to ride - as it should be with the cost difference.

I think the Yamaha does indeed cost more, but I also think it is a better bike and better value, even for those of us who ride like tourists. I also suspect that with the WR250R's track record so far, if you hang on to your bikes for a while instead of replacing them every couple of years, TCO over the life of the bike will favour the Yamaha. Bigger investment at the front end - nicer ride, less fuss, higher resale value, etc over the long term.

The one downside is that the Yamaha can be way too tall for those of us with about 30 - 31" inseams or less. However, the seat height can be lowered two or three inches pretty simply - as numerous of the shortasses here have already done. Including me.

Now, does that help or confuse?

I guess I should have added a little more info in my first post. I have $6k to put down and would be willing to finance the rest of the cost. I know for a fact I would never get 2 bikes for $6k.

I would love to get 2 wr's, but I know my wife would struggle with the height. The KLX is a few inches lower than the WR. Also I think the WR would be too much for her to handle. We went to the dealer and she sat on the KLX, I then put some weight down on the rear end to simulate a lowering link being in place, and she liked the height.

I guess I am just trying to get a good # in my head so that I can barter with the dealer. I feel that if I am willing to purchase 2 new bikes, that I should get a break in the cost. Plus I have $6k cash to put down.

There is a local dealer that has a new 2010 WR250R for $5800 (sticker price, not OTD)
They also have a 2010 KLX250S for $4550 (sticker price, not OTD)

So thats $10,350 plus Tax, Title, Freight.

A few months back I saw a new 2009 KLX250S at a different dealer for $3800 (sticker) unfortunatley they no longer have it.

When do the 2011 models come out?

Both bikes are great bikes, the WR is the better one though (not by a landslide but still a noticeable margin). the wr is definatly lowerable. But honestly, the main thing I would advise would be to get both bikes the same model. That way you only have to learn the ins and perkiness of 1 model. But it also makes it easyer on everyday stuff like buying oil, tires filters and stuff. You only pick a bunch for both bikes and voila.

bt0515 wrote:

I guess I should have added a little more info in my first post. I have $6k to put down and would be willing to finance the rest of the cost. I know for a fact I would never get 2 bikes for $6k.

I would love to get 2 wr's, but I know my wife would struggle with the height. The KLX is a few inches lower than the WR. Also I think the WR would be too much for her to handle.

First, the bike won't be "too much for her to handle".

These are not the pipey two strokes many of us cut our teeth on, where they went from stumbling along to full out wail in about 100 rpm, with the rider flapping in the wind if they weren't paying attention. The power band is smooth and predictable - stock, nobody is going to find themselves doing unexpected wheelies and flapping in the wind. What some bitch about is a benefit for you - although you can change the nature of the beast with some basic sprocket changes.

Height, yes you are probably going to have to address this. A Yamalink and the internal adjustments will drop the seat about 2". A custom seat will probably get you about another 1 - 1.5" (and perhaps even better, a much nicer ride over a long day of dual sporting).

I don't know which one of Greer or SheWolf is the Champion Resident Female Shortass here. Why don't you contact them and ask them what they have their seat height down to. They seem to be very pleased with their current setups.

These are not necessarily the very best deals, but the kind of stuff you can be looking for:
http://charlotte.daype.com/autos/motorcycles/Yamaha-wr250r-dual-sport-3150-Ad-564374.html
http://atlanta.daype.com/autos/motorcycles/WR250R-Great-Christmas-Gift-4199-marietta-Ad-1566593.html
http://portstlucie.ebayclassifieds.com/motorcycles-scooters/vero-beach/2008-yamaha-wr250r-dual-sport-street-legal/?ad=7160074

Bottom line: with some aggressive shopping, you should be able to find pristine '08's and some 09's for about $4000. And probably better. Now is the right time to be doing it. I wouldn't lose any sleep over buying one of these bikes used, as long as it was stock and didn't show the signs of somebody riding it who thought they were Dick Burleson.

You can try contacting local dealers and saying you want to buy two leftover 09's, and all you want is their best price out the door. Tell them you're contacting all local dealers for their best price.

Thanks for everyones help and input.

"You can try contacting local dealers and saying you want to buy two leftover 09's, and all you want is their best price out the door. Tell them you're contacting all local dealers for their best price."

This is a great idea thanks! If they don't have any '09 leftovers in stock, can they order them in?

I am now considering maybe getting 2 WR's after everyones input. I have always had Yamaha's and love them.

After looking at the bike specs

The WR is only 1.6" taller than the KLX and about .3 lbs heavier. If my wife could ride the KLX, I dont see why she couldn't ride the WR.

I think the WR250X has a little lower seat height than the WR250R ??? You could get an X for your wife, lower it and put dual sport tires on it and it may provide a better seat height for her. Get yourself a WR25R or X.

Now for a bit of selfish input. I bought a used WR25R and a lowering link was onit that lowers 2.5 inches that I do not need. Here is my post in the for sale section.
https://wr250rforum.forumotion.com/t3531-25-inch-lowering-link-150-or-trade-for-yamalink-1-inch
Give me a shout if interested.

The main reason the WR-250X has a lower seat height when stock is due to the different tires and wheels.

The "best" deal may not necessarily be the cheapest deal. Find a local dealer who deserves your business. Clean. reasonably stocked store, people who act like they want your business. Times are tight, now it's not a matter of how much profit they will make but more likely how much they are willing to lose. Keep in mind that at MSRP there is probably only $800 markup or less. From a dealer's standpoint who will he (or she) be more willing to help if there is a problem after the sale? The customer who purchased from them and is a loyal parts and accessory purchaser or someone the only see when there is a "warranty problem" ? I'm not saying not to deal, but don't be unreasonable, think of the intangibles and try as I said, to support the shop that deserves your business. Dealers are just businesses trying to stay in business, especially now. Think of where you work, doesn't your business deserve to receive a reasonable profit for what you make or sell? Motorcycle dealerships are closing at a huge rate now. Some deserve to go away, and yes, the business is changing. I fear 5-10 years from now the parts and accessories departments will be even more lightly stocked than they are now. OK for the shopper who knows exactly what they want to mail order, but what about the undecided or uninformed? The phrase "Support your local dealer" has been around for years, I'll amend it to be "Support your local dealer if he deserves your support and work with him". Work with him if he's willing to work with you, most are. Look to match legitimate prices rather than beat them and look for the intangibles in a dealership and help them stay open and employ all those nice, helpful people.

railbird wrote:

The "best" deal may not necessarily be the cheapest deal. Find a local dealer who deserves your business. Clean. reasonably stocked store, people who act like they want your business. ....... Look to match legitimate prices rather than beat them and look for the intangibles in a dealership and help them stay open and employ all those nice, helpful people.

+1

I am happy to spend a little more for excellent service & support local business. Think about all the potential warranty problems you could have with a second-rate dealer.......

railbird wrote:

The "best" deal may not necessarily be the cheapest deal. Find a local dealer who deserves your business. Clean. reasonably stocked store, people who act like they want your business. Times are tight, now it's not a matter of how much profit they will make but more likely how much they are willing to lose. Keep in mind that at MSRP there is probably only $800 markup or less. From a dealer's standpoint who will he (or she) be more willing to help if there is a problem after the sale? The customer who purchased from them and is a loyal parts and accessory purchaser or someone the only see when there is a "warranty problem"?

And... there is also the view that "a dealer who deserves your business" should also be able to give you a very competitive price.

You should buy from a local dealer hoping for his goodwill afterwards? How about the dealer giving you a very competitive price, hoping for your service and parts business for that bike afterwards?

I didn't say "free" - I said "competitive price". In my case, the local Yamaha dealership wouldn't go any lower than $1500 higher than the price I had for another new '08, delivered across the country - still in the crate while theirs had about 50 miles on it. That's not competitive. I don't bear the dealer any ill will over it. Their sales manager was of the view that, sooner or later somebody would come along willing to buy the bike at that price. And, they probably did. But I wasn't going to give them an extra $1500 to earn their goodwill. It also occurs to me that, in dealerships like that, the sales guys are at the front and the service guys are another bunch in the back.

What would I have considered fair enough to have bought locally instead of across the country$ Well, they probably could have sold me at $500 over what I had quoted at the OTHER Yamaha dealer across the country with an agreement on some free labour on service work, something like that. Hard to say, but the sales manager gave the salesman no room to deal at all. Same reason I bought my extended service warranty at yet another dealer.

Nickle and dime'ing dealers over $100 or something similar is, at best, false economy. But when I can buy my bike, my parts, etc significantly cheaper - with shipping - from another Yamaha dealer online, or by phone call, then the local dealer shouldn't expect me to do my shopping in his business. I, on the other hand, am not going to expect him to do no more or no less than competent service work when I bring my bike in, whether warranty work or otherwise.

I value a good dealer. But if purchasing the bike from that dealer is the difference between receiving competent vs incompetent service work - warranty or otherwise - then you're already in trouble.

Point taken on the $1500. difference. He should have been able to do better...but I don't have all the facts. One thing a lot of people do not know is that the cost of a unit may vary from dealer to dealer. By this I mean, and I'm going to do some generalizations on dollar figures just to make an example. I don' t even remember what MSRP was on my '10 WR, I think it was $6499.00. Let's also say for argument the invoice amount (what the dealer paid Yamaha) was $5699. So if I am a dealer and I sell that bike the day that I am invoiced for it I have made a profit of $800.00. Let's forget for a moment freight, setup, tax, license, (undercoat, scotchguard, pinstriping, etc LOL). What does the dealer have to do with that $800.00? Pay the sales person a commission, the salary of the F&I person, pay to have the bike assembled and set up, heat for the building, lights, phone bill, coffee for the break room, toilet paper for the bathrooms, oh, yeah, someone to clean the bathroom. Get my point? Now let's say that the bike is not owned by the dealer but is being floored through their friendly bank. Again a guess but let's put flooring at 3% of invoice. 3% of 5700 = $171.00. Now let's say that it's been on the floor for 9 months. Now there is $1539.00 in flooring costs and an added $1500.00 the dealer needs to receive in order to "make" his $800.00. How long ago was your purchase? I am pretty sure there is no old stock in the Yamaha warehouse anymore. There are dealers who have them I'm sure. Did the dealer you bought from actually have it in his inventory? Possibly, when you committed to the deal he purchased it from another dealer who really needed to dump some inventory. Too many variables as to why you couldn't get a lower price. Maybe the sales manager just got reamed by the GM or owner for selling too cheaply, maybe he was an idiot, maybe their rule is $xxx.xx over invoice-no exceptions. I don't know. Delivery in the crate to you? There's some costs the selling dealer did not incur that your local dealer did (his was assembled and prepped if it had 50 miles on it. Oh, and by the way who did assemble and prep your bike if you purchased it in a crate? If it was not an authorized Yamaha dealer and I wanted to be a dick, I could already void your warranty. Unless I misunderstood your post and the bike was setup and then delivered to you, in which case I AM a dick!
All I'm asking for is, as a dealership employee who worries from day to day if this is the day my owner says "Screw it!", throws up a "CLOSED" sign and moves to Palm Springs, is to treat it like a business and try to think of what is fair for all parties concerned. Most people, as you stated, are willing to allow a fair profit. The problem is determining what that figure is, and who decides what is fair? Ultimately the marketplace, I guess. Especially now, as greedy dealers will not be around for long. One thing I have heard a time or two, and can't really argue with is the phrase "I don't care how much profit you make, i just don't want it to all be on me!"

My offer to my sales manager was $500.00 over invoice in February on my WR, as it turned out that was one of the highest grosses for the month. Pissed? No, I made the offer, I had the dough, I get all my parts and accessories at cost, maybe my $500.00 kept one of my co-workers from being laid off. If I find there was a $2000.00 incentive from Yamaha on WR's in February, I might be a little pissed, but I don't think there was. Lots of other bikes were sold that month (mostly leftovers) at -2%, -5%, -10% in an effort to turn dusty inventory into cash to pay the phone bill and my salary, and the coffee for the break room.

To digress just a little bit:
I'm just saying it's easier to be a little nicer to those who have purchased from the dealership I work at. I have worked in service and warranty now for oh, about 112 years, and if I really need to make something happen for a deserving customer I usually have a few "silver bullets" I can pull out of my belt. Having sold you the bike and made a few bucks on that end, I'm more willing to use one for you than the schmo who I've never seen before, probably will never see again, and who tells me "I went to Oregon to buy my bike, you asshats were too expensive!" You will get competent service on your bike from my Service Department no matter where you bought it. If you have a legitimate warranty concern, I will take care of that too. On my watch if you receive incompetent service work it will be because a human screwed up, not as a result of where you purchased. Remember Valentine's day in grade school? All the girls get a valentine, but I'm gonna save the biggest one for the girl I like the best. I'm not going to like you best if you badmouth my store (you guys are too expensive) the product (I never should have bought this piece of...) or the manufacturer (all my buddies who ride KTM's told me to never buy a Yamaha). I will like you a whole lot if, when you have a problem, you treat me like a human, politely ask if there is some way to resolve it, and work with me.
Don't promise me that if I give you a screaming deal now, you will do all your shopping here, send in all your friends, and buy every bike forever from me. We all know that isn't gonna happen. You are only going to spend money in my store as long as it is beneficial to you. Every bike sold at our dealership is with the hope that it will generate service and parts business, repeat and referral sales. That is what keeps the door open.
Down off my soapbox now and let's move on.

We all want the best deal. We all work for a living (at least in my world) and want our job to be around tomorrow. All I can state with certainty is that I do not have all the answers. Doesn't mean I going to quit trying to understand, though.

railbird wrote:

So if I am a dealer and I sell that bike the day that I am invoiced for it I have made a profit of $800.00. Let's forget for a moment freight, setup, tax, license, (undercoat, scotchguard, pinstriping, etc LOL). What does the dealer have to do with that $800.00? Pay the sales person a commission, the salary of the F&I person, pay to have the bike assembled and set up, heat for the building, lights, phone bill, coffee for the break room, toilet paper for the bathrooms, oh, yeah, someone to clean the bathroom. Get my point?

Yeah - along with the fact the other dealership also probably has bathrooms to clean, toilet paper to buy, commissions and salaries to pay, etc.

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Did the dealer you bought from actually have it in his inventory? Possibly, when you committed to the deal he purchased it from another dealer who really needed to dump some inventory.

I got one of 15 leftovers at the end of the '08 season that dealer had sitting on his floor. There's a fair number of us here that bought our bikes at about the same time from Andrews...

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Too many variables as to why you couldn't get a lower price. Maybe the sales manager just got reamed by the GM or owner for selling too cheaply, maybe he was an idiot, maybe their rule is $xxx.xx over invoice-no exceptions.

And maybe he knew - quite rightly - that for everybody who shops really sharp, there's another guy coming through the doors with his yearly bonus, or after two months in the oil patch, who wants a bike and wants it now and would pay the extra even if a one day's wait would get it several hundred dollars cheaper just down the road. That bike was the same asking price a couple of months later, just before it disappeared off the showroom floor - I doubt that dealership regretted refusing to move on the price for me. For him, not selling that bike to me was a good and profitable move on his part. For me, getting the same bike $1500 cheaper than the other guy in town who bought it from them was a good and profitable move on my part.

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Oh, and by the way who did assemble and prep your bike if you purchased it in a crate? If it was not an authorized Yamaha dealer and I wanted to be a dick, I could already void your warranty. Unless I misunderstood your post and the bike was setup and then delivered to you, in which case I AM a dick!

You are. Setup was done at the same dealership that wouldn't move on the bike they had, arranged between them and Andrews, as per Yamaha requirements. It wasn't delivered from there - I rode it home.

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All I'm asking for is, as a dealership employee who worries from day to day if this is the day my owner says "Screw it!", throws up a "CLOSED" sign and moves to Palm Springs, is to treat it like a business and try to think of what is fair for all parties concerned. Most people, as you stated, are willing to allow a fair profit. The problem is determining what that figure is, and who decides what is fair? Ultimately the marketplace, I guess.

Exactly - the marketplace.

My paycheque is a business as well, in that I have to manage my money to keep things moving just like a dealership does. In my experience, be it motor sports, outdoors sports shops, etc, good shops generally do well except for the very worst of times. They have a feel for the marketplace and where they can move around on things. There are a small percentage of buyers who will take every benny offered and then still order online if it saves them two dollars, but most people aren't like that. There is also the intangible of being able to walk into a dealership - even one you don't particularly like - and hand money to a guy who then hands you what you need, right now.

I was a partner in a dive shop/dive charter business for a few years way back when before I made a career change. I am very familiar with most of the challenges of running a storefront, carrying lines of equipment - far more than a bike shop will ever carry - leases, etc. And these days when I'm not doing the military thing I have a small geomatics business which involves bidding on contracts while gambling on the weather vs month long leases of helicopters, etc. In other words, I have had the experience of signing the front of paycheques more than once. For most people, getting it right running a business is tough. And as the consumer, either of products or services, it is not my job to ensure you survive - that's your problem, just like making enough money to buy your goods and services is my problem, not yours.

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I'm just saying it's easier to be a little nicer to those who have purchased from the dealership I work at. I have worked in service and warranty now for oh, about 112 years, and if I really need to make something happen for a deserving customer I usually have a few "silver bullets" I can pull out of my belt. Having sold you the bike and made a few bucks on that end, I'm more willing to use one for you than the schmo who I've never seen before, probably will never see again, and who tells me "I went to Oregon to buy my bike, you asshats were too expensive!"

If somebody called me an "asshat", I'd run him out of the store and he can keep his money. I'll explain myself to the manufacturer when they come asking, but I don't talk to people like that and they don't talk to me like that in my office. If somebody says "I went to ABC geomatics because they charge less than your hourly", then fine, now I know why I didn't get the contract. But if they throw in crap like "asshats", "jerks", "junk", etc, then they're done like dinner as far as getting anything out of me. It is one thing to simply say why you went elsewhere, it is quite another to make a point of trying to rub it in (as though the calculations behind my original quote have changed anyways) or using insulting language.

HOWEVER, if that guy goes and spends his money elsewhere, and then comes back to me with a little emergency or something, if anything, he is going to get any special treatment I can whip up, not just business as usual. That may be what makes him decide next time that maybe he should stick with me. And word gets around... "Geez... ABC came in and did the survey, I got stuck missing a bunch of spatial analysis, and the guy at Pegasus still went and stayed up all night so I had all the deliverables in time for the morning presentation". That's how you build a successful business in marginal conditions, not remembering whether they're a regular customer or not. Until I see the day when I have to beat off the lineup at my front door every morning with a stick so I have enough room to go inside, everybody is a special customer. What I have to say about them in private may well be another matter. Exceptions being made for people who don't reliably pay their bills on time or use antagonizing language as per the above.

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Remember Valentine's day in grade school? All the girls get a valentine, but I'm gonna save the biggest one for the girl I like the best.

Remember the valentine you got that you didn't think you'd ever get? Bet'cha paid more attention to that girl afterwards...

People that try to screw dealers and everyone else down to their very last dime, I have no sympathy for, and eventually most people like that - on either side of the counter - screw themselves in the long run. But at the same time, I'm like a lot of us here and don't have gobs of extra cash to throw around. And in our market, these bikes are pretty easy for a lot of the work to be done by ourselves. So if a dealer wants to sell the bike to me, he's going to have to offer pretty close pricing, or additional benefits that make his pricing competitive. If he goes under, it's not my fault as a consumer, he's just one of the majority of small businessmen who fail to survive, no matter what market they're in. Another will eventually come along to take his place. And when the first one failed and the second one succeeded in the same town, obviously the first guy didn't get it. The consumers didn't cause the first guy to fail and they didn't cause the second guy to succeed. One figured out an approach that would have consumers happily spending their money in his business; the other one didn't.

And in the end, it is just that simple. The Internet complicates things a lot, but it still gets down to that.

Hey bt0515 did you buy a bike yet? We kind of lost you in the shuffle.
Jager: I enjoyed our discourse. You reminded me of some things I temporarily forgot. Mainly the thrill of giving knock-em-dead service to someone, for whatever reason in my mind may not "deserve" it, and turning them into a loyal customer. Most of what I posted was meant to make people who didn't know how the whole thing works a little insight. If I seemed to put the entire onus on the purchaser, that was wrong. Any specifics would be javascript:emoticonp('')
Nothing is a given, loyalty and patronage have to be earned.
I'll take that with me to work today, thanks again!

bt0515 wrote:

Hello, I am new to the forum. I am considering purchasing a WR250R and a KLX250S for my wife. I live in NY and was wondering what I should be expecting to pay at 2 local dealerships that both sell Yamaha & Kawasaki. I have $6k to put down and want to purchase 2 bikes.

What looks like a very, very lightly used WR250R for $3400...

https://wr250rforum.forumotion.com/t3587-fs-2008-wr250r

Can get it shipped across the country pretty damned cheap with a bit of digging, especially when you're in no hurry because it's winter... that's what I did.