Is it worth it?

So we are FINALLY back in the States!!!!!!!!! What does this mean? I now get to actually do all the stuff I've been wanting to do with the WR now!

I'll get right to it. As is very well known, the WR is grossly street oriented in its gearing from the factory as well as pretty plugged up in terms of available power.

My question(s) is(are) is it worth it to remove the AIS, flapper, exup, etc. in addition to re-gearing? I am not looking to make the bike what it is not, and I am also not looking for unrealistic gains. Most importantly I am NOT willing to sacrifice reliability for performance.

The bike is going to really be trails oriented and not a whole lot more. We bought a new tow vehicle, and I've got the GSA for distance stuff, so I really want to make the bike a bit better for trails from the power and gearing perspective. Last year I came back from Europe and did a 1400 mile trip with the little WR. It totally rocked, but desperately needed to have some lower gearing at a minimum- and some more power to compensate at altitude wouldn't hurt either.

I've determined that I'd like to go to 12/47 for the gearing which I know is quite low, but based on the research here, I can still put the 13 up front with a 112 link chain to calm that down a bit if needed. But, will removing all the other stuff really make a huge difference? I'm going to do the gears here very soon, but now am contemplating doing some of the other stuff in an attempt to squeeze a couple more hp out of the machine. I wasn't really planning on doing an exhaust, but will changing that out in addition to the removal of the other stuff be the only way to get big gains? If it doesn't, I'll just live with it and plan my lines and such accordingly.

The real reason I bring this up is after a trail ride with a buddy (my first since getting back) we swapped for a bit and I rode his DRZ400 that had a slew of motor work done to it. MAN that thing had sac! I'm not aiming for the high strung machine he's got, but would like to be able to feel a touch of power when I twist it, and not have to have the throttle pinned when I'm on the freeway or drop 2 cogs when going up hills.

There is no right answer here but I just wanted to see what the community thought.

Oh yeah, I forgot to add; I am learning to slip the clutch a bit more in an effort to loft the front tire to clear obstacles more easily, so that has a huge impact as well on what I end up doing. Right now, it is really only in first I can do it, but I'd like to be able to slip it in third in the sweet spot of the power band. If that is too much to ask of the little bike, then no worries.

Couldnt hurt to try the free mods first.
Gear change is an obvious next step, assuming you have decent tires.

For me, if I had the coin, I would definitely do the programmer n pipe...maybe even tweak the airbox a little more.
The only good reasons not to are money and noise factor, IMO.

Welcome back! From Germany? How was it?

Funny you should ask. There is a thread here about a guy that bought a Husaberg and I mentioned this:

"I don't understand people that buy a little 250cc bike and then complain about the lack of power. And then spend a fortune on upgrade at the risk of making it less dependable.. Why not just buy a bigger one in the first place.
I understand that someone can outgrow a bike which is fine but buying the wrong thing and then blaming the factory makes no sense."

The discussion turned into the question of reliability, but it kinda sums up what I think.
I wasn't saying that he (or you) bought the wrong bike, but like the WR for what is.

I prefer stock. Like somebody mentioned "it's not great at anything, it's just good at everything" Personal touches or maybe a sprocket yes, but pipes, programmers, ripping off parts etc, not so much for me.

Another thread worth reading is this one.. Worth checking out. It mentions CA (as in California, not Canada haha) too. That's where you are right?

You gotta point T...but to the question is this bike worth it?...to me it is, untill a better bike comes along.
We're lucky that it's hard to go wrong either way I guess.

longtallsally wrote:

My question(s) is(are) is it worth it to remove the AIS, flapper, exup, etc. in addition to re-gearing? I am not looking to make the bike what it is not, and I am also not looking for unrealistic gains. Most importantly I am NOT willing to sacrifice reliability for performance.

Not to worry because with a WR-250R, these are what are considered the tried and true and, really, just the basic modifications that bring out the best in the bike.

Street-legal and off-road-legal bikes (not motocross bikes, but dirt bikes that are called "green sticker legal", meaning they are allowed to ride on approved areas off-road) come from the factory all choked-up in order to pass EPA regulations imposed on the manufacturer.
This means the bikes don't run and perform or feel as well as they could, and I believe considerable time has to be spent at the factories in order to design a bike that will pass these regulations, and yet still run well enough to sell to somebody looking to buy a motorcycle.
The side effect of this is that the bikes come off the showroom in a restricted form, although the sales brochures your salesman gets every year will not mention this.

The small airbox inlet is due to this.
The overly-tall gearing is due to this.
The plugged-up muffler, complete with catalytic converter, is due to this.
The EXUP being there is due to this.
The overly lean FI mapping is due to this.
Hell, I believe it's the main reason the bikes have FI to start with - it's easier to meet the regulations with FI.

At the very least, I'd lower the gearing and install a fuel programmer.

The only advantage to removing the AIS is weight savings. There is no performance related gain to removing it.
In fact, if you're keeping stock exhaust you want the AIS on there to prevent backfiring.

The EXUP is there for the stock pipe. If you change exhaust then you can ditch EXUP. Keep stock pipe I see no reason to mess with EXUP.


Flapper mod is something you won't really "feel" much I don't think. In the long run it won't hurt the bike, but I doubt you'd notice any change in performance if you did it. What you could feel though is removing the airbox door completely. For that I'd suggest you'd need a programmer.

Gearing changes make a huge difference. HUGE.

First place I'd start if starting over is gearing. Not a huge expense and you surely feel it right away.

WOW! Thanks everyone for the very prompt responses!

Right. So you guys remember me as the big goon- who yes, live(d) in Germany and now am back in the Bay Area in CA (so I know and appreciate the whole plated/green sticker bit- thus why we got on WRs in the first place). Forgive me, and I apologize to European forum members, but that place SUCKS! That is, if you appreciate wide open spaces and the ability to enjoy them, Europe is NOT for you. OK, you'll get me on a tirade there, so I'll be quiet and stay on task.

You guys obviously read my mind and understand what I'm looking for. Yep, it's a small bike. Yep I know that. If I were David Knight, Marc Coma, or even Jimmy Lewis, yeah, I'd probably have gotten an Orange bike, and probably would still be in the hospital from busting myself up. No, I love the little WR for nothing else other than the giggle factor. I mean shoot, how could I dislike a motorcycle that I can bunny hop?!?!

But what I can't help thinking is what about a couple modest gains here and there adding up to a good bit more juice. The response I'm getting (and yeah, I've read some of the other threads that have discussed some of this ad nauseum) is basically Yamaha engineers are paid to make a pretty decent machine. That said, I'm not skilled or talented enough to truly appreciate creating a race bike- nor do I want to deal with the high strung nature of one. I've also been injured enough to realize I'm not made out of rubber any longer.

The more I had thought about it a while back (when we bought the bike for my wife) the more I came to the realization that I don't NEED much if anything more. If I want to do 100+ mph desert runs, well, I've got the GSA. If I want a little toy that I can pick up with one hand when I crash, the WR rocks. I really am scared if I get anything much faster, I'm going to bang myself up.

So I really am just trying to make it a bit better for slow to medium speed single track. I end up lugging the motor almost frequently on some hill climbs and run out of steam sometimes when I wish I had just a touch more torque. Also, as I mentioned, there are MANY times I want to be able to rear up the front end a touch to help with obstacles. I'm running D606s and LOVE them as they allow me to ride very irresponsibly in tight twisties on the pavement, but them offer a good deal of grip when on the trail. There are times I ride to the trail, and there are times when I'll be towing to the trail. The only real distance oriented trip I can think of is to tow the bike to the border, and then ride a few days in Baja strictly off the bike (thus why reliability is king over everything else). At some point, the same concept in Moab as well.

Bottom line, it looks like gears and suspension for me. Thanks again for all the insight.

longtallsally wrote:

Forgive me, and I apologize to European forum members, but that place SUCKS! That is, if you appreciate wide open spaces and the ability to enjoy them, Europe is NOT for you. OK, you'll get me on a tirade there, so I'll be quiet and stay on task.

Ohhh.. but I have to. I immigrated a couple of years ago for Europe to Canada. And the main reason was space! And the negativity of the people in general there.

Don't be quiet, tirade away

Europe just isn't my style. In terms of Germany, just think the Borg as the modus operandi, and you're there. Europe in general also solidified a very sincere hatred for socialism and all concepts based in it.

Interesting history, good food (once you are out of Germany), exceptional beer (in Germany), and other things that are positive. However, the utter lack of personal accountability, common courtesy, and total inconvenience of living there just wore me down. It is not the utopia many folks make it out to be and is more about image than substance (at least Germany).

And the drivers. Oh my. As a 20+ year 2 wheeled veteran, you'd think I could handle a decent amount. Well, in Germany they are so bad I cancelled the insurance on the GS (the only bike we took over) and refused to ride there. Italy is another story all together, but the struggle just to get down there wasn't worth it- not to mention the expense even on the GS (remember fuel is $8-9/gallon).

There is a lot more than this, but it's really not appropriate to beat the place down here. Also, I'm trying to not have a horrible attitude about it as it was a good experience and taught me a lot and made me feel all that much more fortunate to be an American citizen.

So then, I'm very glad to be back and enjoy the WR- and all my other toys for that matter. We ordered a new Wrangler Rubicon and I drove it cross country to CA and got to enjoy a few hundred miles off road along the way. I also got a hitch carrier for the WR so I can now take the family on off road adventures as well as take off on the little bike to do some trail rides at the same time.

Bringing the conversation back on task, this is why I want to sort out the gearing and such on the WR so I can do harder trails while out and not worry about getting home (always a concern with the GS). Here in CA, to get any length of fun, a plate really is a necessity, and the small yet capable package of the WR make it a perfect machine to fit that bill. I just don't want to do distance wringing its neck, and now with the Jeep, I can get the best of all worlds.

longtallsally wrote:

... just think the Borg as the modus operandi, and you're there ...

longtallsally wrote:

... There is a lot more than this ...

Sorry for going off topic with this, but I totally understand what you mean. There is something seriously wrong there, and I am not talking about the economy taking a nose dive.

There's a reason many of our parents left everything behind and came to what became or what was the USA and Canada, and why people still come here in droves. Space was just part of it.

For what you're trying to do with your WR, I'd get the suspension worked, regear it more to your liking, and ride it for a few thousand miles to see how it feels once the motor is fully broken in and you are used to a motor that wants to rev to make power. If you still want more torque, either get a big bore or swap bikes for a more powerful machine before adding a full exhaust and programmer. Pipe and programmer mainly adds top end, the only way to get more bottom end really is more displacement.

That being said, I love how my X simply sings with the powercore4 and powerbomb header.

Wow... Bunny hop a 300lb M/C ? I wanna see this ! You... ...or both !

skierd, you solidified it; it truly is down low that I want more grunt. Up top, it has PLENTY for me and my skills. The gears will help me get there more easily and that finalizes it. THANKS!

X-Racer wrote:

Wow... Bunny hop a 300lb M/C ? I wanna see this ! You... ...or both !

Well, as I mentioned, I am rather a goon at 6'7" and 230-240 lbs (my power lifting and bouncer days at 260 are long gone as I'm old and broken).

The GSA was pretty much tailored to fit me and most say it looks small under me, but I think it's a perfect fit.





The WR on the other hand, looks a bit tiny under me...



And it is a good fit my 6' wife (whose friggin' inseam is only an inch or so shorter than mine)...



It was a little worse for me when the bike was totally stock and brand new...



I actually didn't realize I could bunny hop the bike until a trip to Death Valley after we got done with Titus Canyon. After getting to the pavement and taking some pics of everyone doing a couple wheelies, we started to head back to camp. I knew I could easily yank on the bars and bring the front end up (not slipping the clutch or gassing it or anything). The guy next to me literally almost crashed as we were riding down the road at 50 mph he started laughing so hard. I thought to myself, "it wasn't THAT funny dude". Well, when we got back to camp he told me the back tire was like 6" off the ground. It was hilarious, but a bit embarrassing at the same time and kinda made me feel like a bit of an ogre. I will say picking up a 300lb bike compared to a 600lb bike from a crash is a dramatic difference.

6'7"....talk about a high center of gravity. I too was looking for more low end trailablilty. The mods that have worked for me are:

AIS removed- Made my own plate. Easy. Reportedly reduces popping sound on decel. Decreases efficiency of catalytic if you care. Doesn't do squat for power.

Opened up the airbox- Hi Five style- Easy. Used a dremmel to trim off the excess plastic and removed useless flapper and accompanying vacuum octopus. Bike is still quiet but has a bit more growl. Nice sound if you care.

FMF programmer- Not much point in modding the airbox if you don't add a programmer. The bike already runs lean. $200

12/47T Gearing- BIGGEST bang for your buck. Way easier to lift the front over obstacles. Not always stuck in hi first or low 2nd in the trails or smaller roads . Still able to do decent amount of road comfortably at 100km/hr (60miles/hr). I have quickly swapped the front to a 13T for longer tours. I'm pretty sure I can fit a 14T but haven't tried it yet. Might even try a 12/48 combo next time. ?? $140 Needed new anyways

Mtas C17 and C18 StoneEaster tire. Aggressive knobby but hard compound. Got a whole season on the back. The front should make it thru most of the season. Inexpensive. $160 delivered for the pair. The trailwings were going to kill me they sucked so bad in the dirt.

12 O'clock Labs SpeedoDRD - No performance change but the gearing will change your speedo or odometer by as much as 25%. $80

I plan on getting the rear shock redone this winter at a suspension shop. I hear/read it's a great mod if you like dirt. Your a big guy so this might be a good mod for you for $250ish.

Overall, I'm really happy with the results. Thought about a performance pipe but not sure about the noise vs HP increase.

Good Luck Goon Guy

I sold my GS for a WRR...no regrets

longtallsally wrote:

... I want to sort out the gearing and such on the WR so I can do harder trails while out and not worry about getting home (always a concern with the GS). Here in CA, to get any length of fun, a plate really is a necessity, and the small yet capable package of the WR make it a perfect machine to fit that bill. I just don't want to do distance wringing its neck, and now with the Jeep, I can get the best of all worlds.

'sally, stick with the stock countershaft sprocket and go with a 47T rear. Best of both worlds. Personally I'd never put a 12T counter on anything outside of a Taco minibike.
You'll be able to do trails very well, especially the DV stuff you're doing, and any other 2 track. On the hwy you'll easily be able to do 70mph.

Just know that this bike likes revs, So when you're slabbing it over Altamont into the Bay you'll need to grab a gear when the revs come down. The lil sucker will rev right back up to speed. That goes for any gearing you choose.
Enjoy!

Gear it first.

I went with a 13/48 after a lot of reading the beebs. Plus, If its good enough for Motokid...

Still roll down the road plenty fast but can now walk through gnarly stuff without having to touch the clutch. 13/47 Would be good too.

I rode some fairly nasty crap (uphills w/rocks) with stock gearing and it worked okay. Just have to attack it, instead of picking your way up. I also intentionally let it lug down in 1st on some moderate hills w/rocks to see how it would react. To my surprise, it just grunted along pretty good. All of this with stock gearing. (Bike is stone stock, in fact.)

I currently have 13/49 gearing on it. Definitely has made a difference in down low ability. However, I feel I've given up too much blacktop speed for those short jaunts to the nearby mountains. Unfortunately, our summer heat has hit (100+ F) , and I haven't wanted to get back up into the mountains anytime soon to try out the gearing under the same conditions mentioned above. That will have to wait.

However, I have a new 47 tooth sprocket waiting on the work bench, for I suspect the 13/49 is going to be overkill. IMHO, you don't want 1st to be TOO low, or you give up the ability to hit a hill at a nice brisk pace in the fat part of the power band and not deal with a downshift. If geared too low, you often have to hit a hill in second in the wrong part of the powerband, and even then it is sometimes too fast for the condition of the hill, as well as needing a downshift once on the hill while fighting to maintain momentum/etc.

IMHO, all the WRR needs is just a bit of gearing to help it down low. The motor makes ample power down low... more than one first thinks. I may find that 13/47 is my personal "sweet spot" for the type of riding I have access to as well as my style of riding (or lack of!).


Vinduroman

+1 as another person who recommends getting the gearing right first and then mod from there. This bike is pretty sensitive to getting it where you like it.

Chrispy1200 wrote:

+1 as another person who recommends getting the gearing right first and then mod from there. This bike is pretty sensitive to getting it where you like it.

+2 as another person who recommends gears first.

I went with a 48 tooth rear (kept the 13 front) and don't regret it one bit. It was my first and still best farkle. Waaay more usable low end.

On my 2nd year of ownership and this year I want to take care of the throttle snatch issue (via the fix in the TPS resetting thread floating at the top). To me that's the #2 low end problem that my bike had.