Dyno Tune or Auto Tune?

I'm going to get a Power Commander V and a FMF Q4. I'm also going to do the Ultimate Airbox Mod, pull the flapper, etc.

There's a dyno tuning center not far from my house, but I assume it will cost upwards of $160 to have it done. I'm thinking of getting an autotune unit instead. Does the autotune add on work as well as the advertisements suggest? Is it truly plug and play? Are there any downsides?

Thanks in advance!

Shovel

In order for the Autotune to work, you'll need an O2 sensor bung welded somewhere in the exhaust. The tuner reads the exhaust gases in order to make adjustments. You will also need to remove the AIS, otherwise the sensor, once installed, will read incorrectly, thinking that the bike is running leaner than it actually is, due to the AIS injecting fresh air into the exhaust. After that, then the Autotune should work just fine.

it is worth the hassle to have someone weld the stuff to install the autotune?
or you still need to dyno tune it?

cloudbuster wrote:

it is worth the hassle to have someone weld the stuff to install the autotune?
or you still need to dyno tune it?

If you get the autotune you don't need to dyno as the proper fuel map will be generated by the autotune unit. The downside is it costs more than a dyno tune but will correct for all conditions, all the time. Not just be perfect the day at the dyno shop.

It sounds alot simpler and cheaper to put it on the dyno.
Thats what I'd do to my bike.
I doubt the auto tune runs any better than having it tuned on a dyno, the fi looks after temp and elevation changes on its own.

jefmad wrote:

cloudbuster wrote:

it is worth the hassle to have someone weld the stuff to install the autotune?
or you still need to dyno tune it?

If you get the autotune you don't need to dyno as the proper fuel map will be generated by the autotune unit. The downside is it costs more than a dyno tune but will correct for all conditions, all the time. Not just be perfect the day at the dyno shop.

That's kind of correct.

The Autotune module monitors the A/F ratio all the time, however, it does not adjust your map in real time. Changes to the map only occur when you download the trims from the Autotune into your computer and manually accept the adjustments to your map. You then have to upload the modified map back to the PC5/Autotune setup.

I've had the PC5 & Autotune for a couple of years. It can be very fiddly. I've considered going to a dyno to compare results, but also to get a read on HP & torque (I have a fully ported head and the Athena 290 kit as well). Wish there was one closer to me.

I just had mine on the Dyno and I think a good guy running the Dyno is worth the money.

He tuned the bike on the Dyno and then rode it for a bit and was not happy with the low speed / low RPM throttle response. So he played with it on the Dyno a bit more and then took it out on the road again.

As he explained to me there is the Dyno results and then there is real world results. The Dyno gets you close then you tweak it with some real riding.

I suspect the Autotune will be very similar to a straight dyno run without taking the bike out to see what it is doing in the real world.

I had considered going with the autotune but what held me back was it was some more hardware on the bike that would be prone to breakage. So I decided to go with the dynotune instead.

But who knows, at some point down the rode I may go with the Autotune setup but right now I am happy.

A Good Dyno guy is like a Good Therapist, both are good for the soul.

So, question.

Can't you guys with PCV's and AutoTunes occasionally upload maps to a thread here, so that others without the autotune can try them?


If elevation, temperature, and humidity were provided along with the list of mods done to bike and your riding impressions were included, you could build a nice little "custom PCV" database of maps for others.

motokid wrote:

So, question.

Can't you guys with PCV's and AutoTunes occasionally upload maps to a thread here, so that others without the autotune can try them?


If elevation, temperature, and humidity were provided along with the list of mods done to bike and your riding impressions were included, you could build a nice little "custom PCV" database of maps for others.

If you tell me how and where to load them I would.. just not sure how to do that.

See my post(s) in the "The Official FI Mapping Area" thread .

To be honest what drove me to the dyno testing was all the different FMF settings that were reported that were so much different but yet all were still good. I even tried a few of these and the only verifiable difference that I could measure was fuel economy and some engine cut off issues that I got but some others didn't. This convinced me that I did not know how to tell 'good' from 'bad' so I went with the dyno testing. I suspect the same would happen with a bunch of fuel maps but I am willing to give it a shot if it helps somebody develop a good starting point.


Then again there are maps available on the Power Commander site that can be used that probably get you 80% of the way there. IMHO to really optimize a map requires some dyno testing and a good dyno guy who can do some real world testing too.

I have no idea how those maps are formatted.

I assumed that since there are downloadable options on the PC web site that somehow maps can be "packaged" and uploaded as downloadable files.

The problem with the dyno tune is conditions change.

Where I live we go from 20-30 degrees F in winter to 90-95 degrees and very high humidity in the summer.

I'm sure a dyno tune in late April to early May might cover 80% of the conditions bike runs in, but .....

Plus, I don't live where elevation changes much.

Yes - a dyno tune by a professional would be optimal - but if ballpark maps could be uploaded for others to try that might be nice.

Again - I have no idea what that might entail regarding creating files and uploading them.

motokid wrote:

I have no idea how those maps are formatted.

I assumed that since there are downloadable options on the PC web site that somehow maps can be "packaged" and uploaded as downloadable files.

The problem with the dyno tune is conditions change.

Where I live we go from 20-30 degrees F in winter to 90-95 degrees and very high humidity in the summer.

I'm sure a dyno tune in late April to early May might cover 80% of the conditions bike runs in, but .....

Plus, I don't live where elevation changes much.

Yes - a dyno tune by a professional would be optimal - but if ballpark maps could be uploaded for others to try that might be nice.

Again - I have no idea what that might entail regarding creating files and uploading them.

The files are not large and my guess is they are some type of text file.

I am heading out to CO and UT with the WRR this summer to do some back country riding. Looks like we will be hitting some elevations at around 12 or 13,000 feet so I should have pretty good idea on how well the FI system compensates for barometric changes. I do believe their is a barometric pressure sensor of MAF sensor that actually provides data to the FI system to make adjustments. My backup plan is to drill several holes on the airbox door and then cover them with tape. If things are getting too rich I will pull off the tape.

Autotune and a dyno tune are not the same, per se.

With a dyno tune you could actually test different AFR's to find out which makes the most horsepower, or torque. Once you know those AFR's you can plug them into the PCV for a given RPM/gear/throttle position and let the Autotune make the adjustments for atmospheric conditions to keep it there.

I was under the impression that Autotune DID make real-time changes to maintain the given AFR. Unless connected to a switch for base map vs. learn mode, you're in learn mode all the time. Learn mode is where it adjusts values real time. You have to accept the trims for it to make any adjustments to the map. Suggested trims are retained in the trim tables until accpeted, but it modifies the motors fuel curve while riding so you get the optimum AFR.

pbnut wrote:

I was under the impression that Autotune DID make real-time changes to maintain the given AFR. Unless connected to a switch for base map vs. learn mode, you're in learn mode all the time. Learn mode is where it adjusts values real time. You have to accept the trims for it to make any adjustments to the map. Suggested trims are retained in the trim tables until accpeted, but it modifies the motors fuel curve while riding so you get the optimum AFR.

This is correct. Autotune constantly monitors A/F and makes changes to a file called "trims". Trims have to be downloaded to a computer and added to a map. The map is then uploaded to the PC5. The current map being utilized in the PC5 is then static until you again download trims and apply them to your map, which is again uploaded to the PC5.

I went with the auto tune so I can optimize the changes as I go. Since I plan to play with the exhaust some I welded the bung in the head pipe. The target AFR's you can adjust to suit for each gear if you like. For my use I plan to set 5th & 6th gears up in the 13.8 range for cruising economy & 1st-4th more in the low to mid 13's. My intent is to play with it until I'm happy for what ever stage I'm in & remove the autotune until I make another change. For $215 shipped it's a better deal than two dyno sessions

i just took a spin with the GSXR can and the PCV/auto tune (started with map VI) and I was very pleasantly surprised at the improvement in the way the bike feels. I was feeling a little foolish for spending the time and money on a bike that was already a ball.
I had previously opened up the air box lid but the exup was still in place. The response is much crisper and the front end lofts easier for clearing rain ruts and ledges. I bought the bike with the intent to install TR's 280 kit this summer so all of this lays the groundwork for that.

I have the 40F0 can installed with the spark arrestor now & decided to work on the tune tables. I had read Ramz's efforts at tuning each gear & was curious so I hooked up & calibrated the speed sensor, calibrated each gear & built target AFR tables for each gear.
The trim tables will tell me if the engine actually wants different fueling for each gear. I'm doing a 220 mile ride tomorrow including 30 or so miles of 75mph freeway each way to get to the flowy two track, so I should have some data when I get back.
Love the sound of the GSXR can!

I rode 200 miles today, 70 miles of pavement, 130 miles of aggressive two track including ~20 miles of sand washes.
The auto tune was working, the bike ran beautifully. My low fuel light came on right at 190 miles & took 3.6 gallons to top it off so I'm happy with the low fuel light relocation & 52.7 mpg for the type of riding I was doing is very acceptable. I checked the trims & they were slightly different for each gear, setting up the AFR tables for each gear makes sense to me.

I'm going to go a touch leaner in the cruising ranges in 5th & 6th

4play wrote:

I rode 200 miles today, 70 miles of pavement, 130 miles of aggressive two track including ~20 miles of sand washes.
The auto tune was working, the bike ran beautifully. My low fuel light cam on right at 190 miles & took 3.6 gallons to top it off so I'm happy with the low fuel light relocation & 52.7 mpg for the type of riding I was doing is very acceptable. I checked the trims & they were slightly different for each gear so to me setting up the AFR tables for each gear makes sense to me.

Good work!   

What kinds of mods to you have? Care to share your map?

I removed all the normal stuff, ultimate air box mod, Twin Air filter, stock head pipe & GXSR muffler with an FMF spark arrestor.



14/49 gearing with a MT43, love the tire for our dry conditions. It was a bit interesting to get on top of the deep sand from a standstill but once on a plane it did great.

I am amazed how much better it feels uncorked. It's definitely has better throttle response & will loft the front end MUCH easier.

I don't mind sharing my map, but no warranty is expressed or implied   

4play wrote:

I removed all the normal stuff, ultimate air box mod, Twin Air filter, stock head pipe & GXSR muffler with an FMF spark arrestor.



14/49 gearing with a MT43, love the tire for our dry conditions. It was a bit interesting to get on top of the deep sand from a standstill but once on a plane it did great.

I am amazed how much better it feels uncorked. It's definitely has better throttle response & will loft the front end MUCH easier.

I don't mind sharing my map, but no warranty is expressed or implied   

Ah, no big bore kit (yet). Won't work for me, but others on the site may benefit from your research and generosity. Keep up the good work!

The Thumper 280 kit will likely be my Summer upgrade. Everything I'm doing now is laying the ground work for that.

It's too bloody hot to ride here in late July early August.