questions about down shifting

I have yet to take mine off road yet. Waiting to get some protections before I lay it down in the dirt. Anyway, I feel like I am going to drop it in the street any day now because I don't know how to down shift right... When I come into the corner in higher gear, when do I or should I down shift? Because every time I do it, I fish tail it due to severe engine break. Do I need to rev it to match the gear before I let the clutch out? I have hard time doing that without tacometer.

Dont downshift while you are in the corner.do it before you lay the bike into the turn.you ll learn when its time to downshift fron the sound of your engine you dont need a tach for that;-)

WR25RY wrote:

I have yet to take mine off road yet. Waiting to get some protections before I lay it down in the dirt. Anyway, I feel like I am going to drop it in the street any day now because I don't know how to down shift right... When I come into the corner in higher gear, when do I or should I down shift? Because every time I do it, I fish tail it due to severe engine break. Do I need to rev it to match the gear before I let the clutch out? I have hard time doing that without tacometer.

Have you taken a rider safety class before?

Sounds like you're downshifting too early.

A slight blip to the throttle with clutch pulled in during the downshift helps to match rev to engine speed, but if you're shifting too early it won't matter much.


Bottom line - wait longer to downshift.

I usually downshift right before I start turning on my other bike. I bring the clutch in and rear break to slow down and and when RPM drop enough, I downshift to 2nd gear and let the clutch out and turn the throttle. That worked for my other bike, but on WR250R, between letting the clutch out and turning the throttle, I fish tail. Sometimes its a minor jerk, and other times, I feel lucky not laying down... Or maybe I just need to learn to not ride on clutch so much and get better at timing of letting the clutch out and throttle at the same time?

WR25RY wrote:

I usually downshift right before I start turning on my other bike. I bring the clutch in and rear break to slow down and and when RPM drop enough, I downshift to 2nd gear and let the clutch out and turn the throttle. That worked for my other bike, but on WR250R, between letting the clutch out and turning the throttle, I fish tail. Sometimes its a minor jerk, and other times, I feel lucky not laying down... Or maybe I just need to learn to not ride on clutch so much and get better at timing of letting the clutch out and throttle at the same time?

What's your "other bike"?

Rear brake? No front brake?


If you're fishtailing the rear end due to engine braking after downshifting, you are downshifting too early.
You need to wait longer before the down shift.

also try to let the clutch slip a little bit. don't just pop it back out. I usually only let it slip when I notice I downshifted too early, or am going too fast for that particular gear into a corner, or the road is especially slippery. by letting it slip you won't have the sudden engine break, but will be more gradual. though it's certainly not something I do every single time, just in particular situations, so something else must be wrong...


you say this happens when you downshift into second? second is pretty short on this bike, so downshifting from 60 or 70 kph which 3rd will do if you pull it, that is wayyy too fast for 2nd gear. just keep it in 3rd, and it'll have no problem pulling you out of the corner even if you're down to 50 or 40 kph

You definitely want to scrub excess speed before the turn...prepare to accelerate out of the turn.

Engine breaking will easily skid the back tire, worse with knobbies, so hold off on that down shift...and don't forget to use both brakes well.

Its a small bike and will scrub speed quicker than a big bike...you just gotta get the feel for it.

You don't even need to downshift all that much. First back off the gas and let her slow down some on her own. Then take her down one gear, let the clutch out and let the engine slow it down a little more and by the time you get to third, you could just let it coast till you get to the required speed or just give it a little gas to keep it where you want before you start your turn. Sounds like your downshifting through too many gears all at once.

The way I'm reading this something like this may be happening:

A. You're releasing the clutch too quickly when wheel speed is too high for a lower gear.

B. You're downshifting and starting a turn at the same time. This would certainly cause some fishtailing. (I look forward to the sliding personally )

I don't think downshifting in a straight line would cause fishtailing. Everything should be done before you start your turn. Rev matching for each downshift coupled with smooth clutch action will make downshifts that much smoother.

What kinds of speeds are we talking in these corners where you're having issues?

My other bikes are old XS650 and XS1100. Compare to them, engine break is stronger and WR250R feels like using a break just by backing off on the throttle. All of you have assessed my problems I think... If I don't slow down by backing off on the throttle and rear break, I do use front break as well. I do coast with clutch in for a bit and use the front and rear break to slow down enough to take on the turn. It's true that a lot of times, I go straight from 4th to 2nd gear... And probably 2nd is not necessary. I will try to take on the turn in 3rd next time I ride. I guess I need to get used to dual sports' gearing and feel of the tires. I don't know the speed, but I am going around 40mph before the turn so maybe 20-25mph at the peak of the corner?

I try not to downshift too much, especially on a straight way. I was told breaks and clutchs are much cheaper to replace than the gear.

WR25RY wrote:

My other bikes are old XS650 and XS1100. Compare to them, engine break is stronger and WR250R feels like using a break just by backing off on the throttle. All of you have assessed my problems I think... If I don't slow down by backing off on the throttle and rear break, I do use front break as well. I do coast with clutch in for a bit and use the front and rear break to slow down enough to take on the turn. It's true that a lot of times, I go straight from 4th to 2nd gear... And probably 2nd is not necessary. I will try to take on the turn in 3rd next time I ride. I guess I need to get used to dual sports' gearing and feel of the tires. I don't know the speed, but I am going around 40mph before the turn so maybe 20-25mph at the peak of the corner?

I try not to downshift too much, especially on a straight way. I was told breaks and clutchs are much cheaper to replace than the gear.

I'll repeat my first question to you:

Have you ever taken a motorcycle rider safety course?

NO I haven't taken the course.

WR25RY wrote:

NO I haven't taken the course.

I would suggest you do.

Might save your life and/or prevent you from draining your bank account.

I second the rider course. I took it at 45 yrs old and learned a few things. Not so much technique for me but a lot of good strategies to avoid the cagers.

I run the piss out of my bike daily. Just actually took the airbox door off by way of Motokids advice. Thanks by the way!!!! If your sliding when your down shifting , your letting the clutch out way to high in the rpm range. Did it about 3-4 times today. SLOW DOWN. You can use your brakes ya know. If it has you concerned your over riding your abilities. Take the saftey course and slow down.
With that said...Happy Wednesday!! (Budweiser by the way for curious mids lol)

My tips:

1: Don't use the rear brake at all. Learn to use the front brake for everything, master it, then start experimenting by adding in some small amount of rear brake. This short wheel base bike will transfer weight so quickly to the front that the back tire will slide lose at the slightest provocation under heavy braking.

2: Let the clutch out slow when down shifting, you are beating your tranny up if you are just dropping it like you do on an upshift. When you are up shifting you are chopping the throttle so there is reduced load, when you are down shifting the load is inversed, the chain and tire have the load and the only way to reduce that load would be to slow down, if you haven't slowed down enough, the only other option is to rev match OR slowly let the clutch out. Rev matching takes skill and practice... is also honestly mostly a waste on a bike with such light internals that just being used on the street, so start with just letting the clutch out slow and you can work on rev matching later. Besides, if you are slowing down, you aren't losing any time not being engaged in gear. Its probably a bit harder on the clutch pack, but clutches are cheaper than transmissions and after 13k miles of doing it my clutch is still going strong.

3: Generally avoid shifting while leaned over. On a race track you might have to, on the road, pick your gear going in or wait until you've stood the bike back up to downshift.

4: A slipper clutch is made to reduce the complications with number 2 and 3. Our bike doesn't have one. However, it doesn't turn a bazillion RPMs or have a lot of rotating mass so you can survive without one pretty easily.

I use my brakes to slow down more so than the engine, they're cheaper to replace.

+1 on taking the course. Being brutally honest - you're doing a bunch of stuff that doesn't make sense. A buddy of mine just started riding and took a four day course from an ex-racer. I'm amazed at how he rides in such a short time. He went back and took the advanced course afterwards - really fast tracks the skill set.....


The other option to taking a course is getting a dirt bike and start racing. You'll learn real quick how to handle just about anything that can happen to a bike...... ;0)

Thanks all. I will look into taking a course or two. And those who made a real suggestions, thanks, I will take the corner in 3rd gear and keep reminding myself to let the clutch out slowly when downshifting.

WR25RY wrote:

Thanks all. I will look into taking a course or two. And those who made a real suggestions, thanks, I will take the corner in 3rd gear and keep reminding myself to let the clutch out slowly when downshifting.

The class suggestions are probably the best piece of advice that you have been given so please don't dismiss them and don't look into taking a course or two - just take them.

I started riding motorcycles when I was 15. I rode up till my late twenties when my daughter was born. After the death of a friend (he left behind a wife and two small children) in a motorcycle accident I made the decision to stop riding until my daughter was old enough to make decisions on her own.

About 17 years later and after setting up a custodial account for my daughter I decided to start riding again. I picked up a DL650 and started working on getting the rust off. My brother (who was in the Navy at the time and was required to take the MSF classes in order to ride his bike) strongly suggested that I take the MSF class. I found one in my area and signed up for the class.

I will be honest, my first thought in class was that this was going to be a big waste of time especially when I realized the other riders in the class had never ridden before. Figure I had learned more in my early days of riding/racing than anything that class would ever teach me.

I was never more wrong in my life. I picked up quite a few techniques in the class including one that probably could have saved my friend's life had he only known about it many years ago.

Please don't underestimate the benefit of these classes.