Bike dies going up hill

Hello WR250R/X Forum.  I purchased a '08 over the summer and have had a good time getting it setup to my liking. I think I have it mostly where I want it.

I am experiencing the engine going completely dead when riding up hill.  It has happened 4 times in the last few hundred miles.  Always happens in the same situation.  Going up a long hill, at speeds over 50 MPH, throttle held steady at 1/3 to 1/2 throttle.  Rolling off the throttle instantly brings the bike back to life.

So far, it does not happen in any other condition.  As long as I stay away from long uphills at constant throttle position it runs perfectly all day.  It does happen regardless of full or near empty fuel tank.

Bike setup
13/47 gearing
OEM fuel pump new in last 400 miles
stock OEM exhaust
FMF fuel management computer  - 2 months old
air filter - clean
Battery - New

Any thoughts?

My first guess:

https://wr250rforum.forumotion.com/t7636-cutting-out

That does sound very close to my situation. Mine is more constant throttle position, but definitely worth a look.

Thanks.

If it's not a loose battery terminal/connection the first thing I'd do is disconnect the FMF programmer.
Since you have a stock exhaust you don't need a programmer.
Take that out of the loop for a bit and see what happens.

I'd also check for pinched or kinked fuel lines.

You may also want to check to see if anyone futzed with the lean-angle sensor under the seat.

 

Bump the programmers 5th setting up to 6 or higher.

My bike with the fmf programmer with the 5th setting on 4 would cut out at steady throttle on flat ground but im kindy heavy you may need to ride uphill to simulate the same load on the motor lol.

ummm...my lawn mower does that when there is a bit of water in the tank...just sayin.

I'll check the battery first, but I suspect it's fine.

I will give the bump to the programmer this weekend and see what happens. I have two hills nearby enough where I believe I can get a good test out of the change.

Glad to see there are suggestions. I was hoping this thread would not sit idle as people thought this has never happened before.

I went back through the settings that have been posted, and I bumped up a couple.  Today I ran at:

G 3
Y 5.5
R .5
GB 8
YB 4
RB 6

With these setting I felt a some improvement in other areas where I had not been completely satisfied.  Overall liked it better, and after 30 miles of riding I was ready to declare the cutting out issue solved.  Then I was going up a long, very gradual gravel road hill at about 58 MPH (gps) and it did it again.  Seemed less abrupt this time, maybe because I was on gravel, and all the other times it was pavement.

Got back, bumped it up to 6.5 on the setting.  Did it again, this time on pavement, but also seemed less abrupt.  Got home, bumped it up to 7.5.  Ran out of testing time.  I'll give that a shot on the next ride and see what happens.

I ran 8 on my last three numbers when I had my FMF programmer. Got rid of the cut out problem.

Dirt_Dad wrote:

I went back through the settings that have been posted, and I bumped up a couple.  Today I ran at:

G 3
Y 5.5
R .5
GB 8
YB 4
RB 6

With these setting I felt a some improvement in other areas where I had not been completely satisfied.  Overall liked it better, and after 30 miles of riding I was ready to declare the cutting out issue solved.  Then I was going up a long, very gradual gravel road hill at about 58 MPH (gps) and it did it again.  Seemed less abrupt this time, maybe because I was on gravel, and all the other times it was pavement.

Got back, bumped it up to 6.5 on the setting.  Did it again, this time on pavement, but also seemed less abrupt.  Got home, bumped it up to 7.5.  Ran out of testing time.  I'll give that a shot on the next ride and see what happens.

Hey mate in your list of "mods" it shows the bike is only running the stock exhaust, so this being the case you are really running very high / rich numbers on the FMF. Not sure if the air box has been modded or stock, but in any case with the stock exhaust you are just dumping in excess fuel with those current settings. Also this in itself could be contributing to the problem. As many others have said here, there is a known issue with the 5th number setting on the FMF - my bike displayed the exact symptoms as well on intitial FMF fittment. ( Changing the 5th setting to "6" sorted my bike out 100% and immediately ).

What i'd suggest is to go back to more modest settings to suit your stock exhaust, and then focus on the adjustment of the 5th setting to see what happens during consistant testing. ( Ie, ride the same hill and conditions to get a good replication ).

Even though you say that you have felt some improvement by greatly increasing the accel mode, i believe that you will be just overfuelling big time, and by actually backing the settings down you should get better results as far as smoothness & ecconomy go. Really to gain the best benifits of the FMF overall you need to fit a performance muffler & some base airbox mods.

With your current set up i would go with these below listed numbers as a base,

2~2~0.5~8~6~4

( Mode "3" is set to "off", so this negates mode "6", but just leave it at the FMF default of "4" anyway. ) Also i'd say that mode "4" could be set down to maybe 6 with a stock bike, but for the purposes of sorting out the "dead spot / cut out" in setting "5" it may be best to leave on default setting "8" during this test ).

I'd almost bet motorkid's left nut on the FMF setting # 5 being the cause, but if those above numbers don't sort it out then, as also mentioned by motokid, try running with the FMF disconnected.

If all above fails, then i would go back to look at the recent fittment of the new fuel pump. It could be that the new pump is not fitted or secured correctly, and this shows up under those certain conditions. The only thing that would go against the fuel pump is that you say that it still occurs even with a full tank.


Anyway try the above settings first then report back please.

Also if you can advise on the airbox in regards to being stock or modded.

Cheers, Gavin.

HEY HEY HEY!!!!!!


Can you please leave my nuts out of this.....

 

Prior to yesterday I was running

G 2.5
Y 2.5
R .5
GB 8
YB 4
RB 4.5

With those settings I was feeling at least one flat spot in the rev range.  That flat spot was gone yesterday with the new settings.  As for dumping too much fuel, could be, I'll admit I view the fuel controller as a black box and have little understanding of how to tweak it correctly on my own.

Even with the old settings my fuel mileage had gone down significantly after changing the gearing and adding the FMF.  With the settings yesterday I was getting a true (gps measured) 49 MPG.  Which is about what I was getting before that.  I don't know that I can blame the FMF for the loss of MPG. I tend to ride at fairly high RPM to stay where I'm happy in the powerband.  I also tend to have the back wheel spinning a lot whenever off pavement. I try to powerslide every worthwhile bend in the road, and often on straight sections as well.  I ride like a punk kid with a bad attitude.  Yesterday was probably 70% off pavement, so with habits like that, how reasonable is it to expect better than 49 MPG?

I'm not all that suspicious of the fuel pump.  Bike never has the issue when I go to full throttle and hold it there for a few moments.  I use the full range of throttle settings when off pavement and it only happens when holding it in the same position for more than 5 seconds at higher speeds.

My air filter is stock, and I have done the flapper mod.  No other airbox mods have been done.

I do appreciate all the suggestions.  Unfortunately I don't get out to test as often as I would hope, but will try anything that is suggested until I get this worked out.  Thanks for making recommendations.

Either jack the YB number to 6, 7,or 8 (a known and documented issue with FmF programmers is using a number below 6)

or remove the FmF unit form the equation all together. <-- I'd do this

You don't need a programmer. You're running a 100% stock bike.

If you remove programmer completely you can either determine that it's the source of the problem completely, or it's not and then start looking at something else.

It's a sure-fire guarantee that you won't damage bike by not using the FmF programmer.

Only change one thing at a time, otherwise you wont know what fixed the problem.

Your adding a lot of fuel to a stock bike with your new settings, more than I am to a bike with a very open airbox and pipe.

Try running 2-2-.5-8-6-4 like gt-250 mentioned or 2-1-.5-8-6-4, you dont need to add much fuel to a stock bike!
If you run .5-.5-.5-8-8-8 you turn the programmer off if you want to try running with out it for a test run.

If your rich on the 2nd setting you will get flat spots and cut outs but the bike does make a touch more power running too rich, making the 5th setting higher/slower helps but the cure is dialing in the 2nd setting and leaving the 5th one on 6.

The 5th setting needs to stay on 6 or higher with the fmf programmer you get glitches/cutouts with it below 6 thats just how it is and they should come set to 6, with a warning dont run below 6 or you will get cut outs lol.
This is brought up all the time but people still try to run it on 4 lol.

Here's my thought:

I'd want to truly and definitely isolate, verify, and define exactly what the problem is.

If my bike is 100% stock, except for the FmF programmer.....I'd want to remove the programmer. Completely.

In my opinion (worthless perhaps) having the thing still hooked up but set to 0.5 isn't truly isolating the potential problem.
There are still signals traveling through the programmer, as opposed to bypassing it altogether.

If you truly and absolutely want to KNOW if the programmer is causing the problem, then completely disconnect it and return the bike to as close to stock as possible. Especially if doing so won't hurt the bike at all.

Again....that's just me.

There might be something more wrong with the programmer than setting number 5.
It might be something FmF would replace or fix somehow.

That's assuming the programmer is the problem.....but without a complete removal, that question might never be answered.

Peace out and good luck.  

Be sure to let us know what the true fix is for this issue.  

Biglake wrote:

... the bike does make a touch more power running too rich

That is the one thing I don't want to give up with any change I do make.  

For reasons much too long to go into and too far off topic for this thread, I'll just say I was ready to sell the WR until I made the gearing and controller change.  I did them at the same time without checking one without the other, so I don't know what gave me the most improvement.  I really wasn't concerned, I was happy the bike finally became entertaining to me.  I don't mind giving up some MPG for the most power I can squeeze out of this thing.  Unfortunately adding a louder pipe is not an option since I'm tying to stay as quiet as possible for other reasons.

You should try taking off the airbox door and going for a test ride since your after the most power posible without adding a pipe...

It gives you a little more power and is easily reversed if you dont like it, it does add a little noise tho, the flapper mod alone isnt alowing near enough air into the airbox IMO.

If you like how it runs without the airbox door, put it back on then cut a 2 1/2 by 2 1/2 hole directly above the air filter... this gives you lots of air and keeps water out as good as stock for offroading.

Dirt_Dad wrote:

...I really wasn't concerned, I was happy the bike finally became entertaining to me.  I don't mind giving up some MPG for the most power I can squeeze out of this thing...Unfortunately adding a louder pipe is not an option since I'm tying to stay as quiet as possible

If its quiet (i.e. stock exhaust AND intake systems no cutting everything all up), and entertainment you are after, there is only one answer I can think of.  Big bore $750, done.

Dirt_Dad wrote:

I went back through the settings that have been posted, and I bumped up a couple.
Got back, bumped it up to 6.5 on the setting.  Did it again, this time on pavement, but also seemed less abrupt.  Got home, bumped it up to 7.5.  Ran out of testing time.  I'll give that a shot on the next ride and see what happens.

Finally had a chance to check the 7.5 setting.  So I was running the at:

G 3
Y 5.5
R .5
GB 8
YB 7.5
RB 6

All problems seem to be gone.  Thank you.

I know I'm still running rich, but until there is time to do some trail and error, I'm not going to mess with a bike that is running nicely for me.  Not all that concerned about an extra few MPGs.

Biglake wrote:

You should try taking off the airbox door and going for a test ride since your after the most power posible without adding a pipe...

It gives you a little more power and is easily reversed if you dont like it, it does add a little noise tho, the flapper mod alone isnt alowing near enough air into the airbox IMO.

If you like how it runs without the airbox door, put it back on then cut a 2 1/2 by 2 1/2 hole directly above the air filter... this gives you lots of air and keeps water out as good as stock for offroading.

I did this, and it does make slightly more power.  But at least from the vantage point of the rider, it seemed a lot louder.  Does cutting the hole make as much noise?  That would not be a good solution for me.

rvsixer wrote:

If its quiet (i.e. stock exhaust AND intake systems no cutting everything all up), and entertainment you are after, there is only one answer I can think of.  Big bore $750, done.

I suspect I'd give up and just get a bigger engine bike before I continue to chase more power on this bike.  It's an interesting option, just doubt I'd put in the effort.

Thanks all for the advice. I believe the issue that started this thread has been satisfied.

Well glad that you've sorted it mate, and thanks for reporting back with your outcome....

Also this is good news for motokid's family jewels,  

In regards to opening up the air box, i've done the "standard" air flapper held open mod. I then tried with the air box door off, but also found the induction "roar" unacceptable for me. So what i've now done is to just use a holesaw to place a 2inch hole in the middle of the air box door, and then fit a "frogzskin" air intake patch over the hole. I've found that it works very well overall in regards to plenty of extra air induction, but without the excess noise. Another great aspect of this simple mod is that to reverse it only means a simple 5 min job of fitting a new $30 OME door. ( Same thing with my air flapper, as i've left everything in place and simply placed a small ball bearing tightly inside the vacume line to keep it "stuck" in the fully open position = all looks stock + very easy to reverse the mod ).

Lastly, as for the various power up-grade options for this bike, i've just fitted a 290 kit to mine - & IMHO it's a very good spend. This bike is a long term propersition for me, so maybe 1 day further down the track i'll throw the stroker kit in & take it over the 300cc mark. But for now i'm happy with this level of power mods. ( YES - I understand the "just get a bigger capacity" bike, and i've owned an old XR600R with 630 BB kit previously....but for me at present, this 250cc Yammie fits the bill very well, and i don't mind the power up-grades just for the "fun" of tinkering ).

Cheers guys.

Dirt_Dad wrote:

I did this, and it does make slightly more power.  But at least from the vantage point of the rider, it seemed a lot louder.  Does cutting the hole make as much noise?  That would not be a good solution for me.

A hole in the top of the airbox makes more intake noise than stock but I have no idea if its as loud as running without the airbox door as its below the seat and that muffles it a bit, if I run the bike in the garage with the seat off its noticably louder.

The good news is your the only one who hears it a couple of guys I race with say they cant hear me coming the bikes so quiet and I have the fmf Q4 pipe, the bike seams loud to me while riding it but quiet to other people.

I ran my bike with the so called 'ulitimate airbox mod' (One look at the 'ulitimate airbox mod' and I new from priror experence modding bikes/qauds it wasnt geting enough air, you want an airbox opening close to the size of the air filter for max power.) then cut the hole above the filter, it made it louder but also made more power, I never tried it with the airbox door removed as that will let water into the airbox on wet offroad rides so its not an option for me. Its just a quick easily reversed way of seeing if you lilke how the bike runs with the airbox opened up.

I ran the bike through some deep water holes before deciding where to cut the hole in the top of the airbox, I was going to glue foam around the openng to keep water out if need be but water splashes into the stock opening before it splashes into the hole I cut above the filter lol. Unless you never ride through mud or water I dont see why you'd remove or cut a hole in the airbox door when you can cut a hole in the highest part of the airbox easily.

^^ Yes i concur 100% with Bl's above assessment in regards to where would be practical for any given
RR/X owner to open up the air box.


In regards to my WRR set up with the 2 inch round hole in the side door, it suits my intended use very well.

I'm very confident that with the Frogzskin mesh stuck over the opening - and with the added shielding of the factory plastic side cover, that the only scenario where i'd be at any real risk level of water entry is for slow riding thru very deep water. ( As in at a level where my knees were almost directly under water lol ).

IF you look at the relation in fittment of the side plastic to the air box door, you can see the it "encloses" and shields the door quite well. Added to this the inherent design function of the "water repelling" F/S mesh patch, & IMO it provides a very reasonable level of protection against direct water entry.

Whilst this "shielding" also means that it may cause some slight air flow restriction into the door opening, it does still pull more air thru the extra hole. My testing seems to show that it works more so like a "secondary venturi" at the mid to higher rev range - which is at these engine operations where you want & need the "extra" air flow / induction.

In actual fact i was really considering the option of weather to MOD the side door or the actual main air box above the filter. In the end, for my riding usage and conditions, i went for the "simple to reverse" air box door. The main reason i wanted to be able to easily reverse was in case of excess induction noise levels etc. But the induction noise level is all ok. If my future riding use might involve deep / slow water crossings, then i will consider fitting a new OME door and then holesawing / frogzskining the main air box housing above the filter / under the seat.

Anyway i suppose there are plenty of other threads for discussion and debate for this topic of induction & airbox mods, lol.....
Back to the OP's situation here it seems as though the "standard FMF issue" of setting #5 is the fix.....again, lol.

Cheers  

You know I,ve had my 08 since new,3rd month manufacturing that is stock still..never a problem.35-36,xxxkms now
just saying