Really Tempting... This WR R Thing...

Hi All:

I think this is the year that I am going to replace my aging and very worn XR250R. ('90 model!)

Most of my off road riding for more than a decade has been aboard vintage enduro scoots, and events for same. The XR would be taken out when I wanted to do some honest-to-goodness trail riding, or attend Dual Sport rides. (It's tagged.)

I know my XR so thoroughly and it has been so stone reliable that I know ANYTHING I look at to replace it with will have a tough sell to get me off it. It's been that good of a bike.

I've narrowed it down and the WR250R seems to be the top contender. It looks to be a bike that I could be happy with. I like the fact that it is already street legal, has decent suspension travel (for a DS bike)... and can be made to be quite trail worthy, yet still legally get down the pavement to the next series of trails. All pluses.

BUT... I do have a few questions:

* Will it have comparable low end grunt of my '90 XR? (Note: My XR retains stock final gearing ratio.)

* How much $$ should I expect to spend to mod it to get the engine to perform a bit better?

* Is the suspension good to go for an intermediate rider that rides in the woods sensibly?

* What kind of range (miles/MPG) can I expect on a day spent on forest roads, easy/moderate trail?

* What sprocket changes are needed to be a better machine in the woods, yet still allow me to do 55-65 blacktop speeds?

I've watched several ride videos linked from this site, and I must say the WR250R DOES look like a very capable machine with an experienced rider aboard. (Justin Weiss' ride videos have really got me stoked!!)

Any input would be very much appreciated.

Thanks.

Vinduroman

Well...your fuel mileage is going to kick the shit out of your XR. To make it woods-worthy, you need to either drop the front sprocket to a 12, or up the rear to a 45...both will still allow you to hit highways speeds with throttle left to pass and then some. This change will also give you a bit more grunt as well, and give 6th gear a lot more use. To get the mill to give you better performance, it depends just exactly what you want. $200 for a programmer thereabouts, $250 for a pipe (same for a header if you want that). Big bore...well, that's the pricey thing which ranges from $800 to over 1k (depending where you get it, and if you want to do that). The suspension is a toss up, depending on who you talk to...and weight is also a factor. I got mine redone and I think it rocks on the trails now. Some guys tho swear by their stock setup, so yeah. As for range, it depends how you ride it. Mileage seems to vary rider to rider. If you're just cruising around and not wringing it's neck, you can probably get in the 60's easy enuf. Whacking the throttle will not be easy on the fuel consumption.

Vinduroman wrote:

I think this is the year that I am going to replace my aging and very worn XR250R. ('90 model!)

BUT... I do have a few questions:

* Will it have comparable low end grunt of my '90 XR? (Note: My XR retains stock final gearing ratio.)

I've never ridden a '90 XR250. Does a 20 year old carburated bike have as much low end grunt as a new FI bike, both in stock gearing? Maybe, maybe not. Does your bike have nearly as much mid and top end grunt as a WR? Almost certainly nowhere remotely close.

There is also the issue of taking advantage of the characteristics of the engine. If you insist on riding a WRR like it is at its best as a low end grunter, instead of riding it where it shines, you likely aren't going to be very impressed with it.

Quote :

* How much $$ should I expect to spend to mod it to get the engine to perform a bit better?

How "better" do you want?

Many ride the bike completely stock and are happy with the performance. Others go a step further and open up the airbox and deactivate the flapper. Then there's the AIS removal. Then you can go a bit more and buy a pipe. And while you're at it, buy a programmer. Or you can go all the way and get a big bore kit. Depends on how determined you are to squeeze every little bit out of the engine as to whether you do any mods, just the free mods, or start slapping down your credit card.

Quote :

* Is the suspension good to go for an intermediate rider that rides in the woods sensibly?

Most find it less than stellar, but for "sensible" riding, more than adequate. Will it be better handling than 20 year old technology? I'd certainly hope so.

Quote :

* What kind of range (miles/MPG) can I expect on a day spent on forest roads, easy/moderate trail?

That mostly depends on your right wrist. If you're out riding and just taking in the view, then I find the stock tank on my stock bike is good to about 120 miles with no worries. If you're the sort that feels the need to "mod it to get the engine to perform a bit better", I suspect that goes with liking to wring its neck. Which means you shouldn't be too surprised if you're running on fumes before you hit the century mark. Not a lot of gas in the stock tank.

Quote :

* What sprocket changes are needed to be a better machine in the woods, yet still allow me to do 55-65 blacktop speeds?

Depends on what your version of woods riding is. If you're talking about days spent on forest roads and easy/moderate trails as you mentioned above, the stock sprockies will do just fine and help you extend your range if that is one of your concerns. If you're talking about crawling around on tight single track, clawing your way up steep loose trails, etc, then a gearing change will be desperately in order. Want to roost out of every corner and loft the front wheel with a twist of the wrist? You'll want to change the gearing as well.

With stock gearing, you'll hit 56 in third gear and 71 in 4th. If you want to ride the bike with the motor revs low instead of where the motor earns its bread and butter, then you can go to a rear 50 tooth sproket; then you'll do 48 in third and 61 in fourth. If that isn't woodsy enough for you, drop the front sprocket to a 12 and leave the 50 tooth front on. Then forget third gear; fourth gear will get you 56, fifth will get you 66, and you'll lose 20mph off your top end speed. And mileage...

You might try riding it stock for a bit to get used to it as a different bike before deciding what mods to throw at it. Most of all, this motor is happiest when the revs are high, not when they're down in the basement. Thumper power is more than there, just not at its best in the basement.

Vinduroman wrote:

* Will it have comparable low end grunt of my '90 XR? (Note: My XR retains stock final gearing ratio.)

Close, but not as much.
Mainly because the WR-250R is designed to have much more power at higher RPM than your XR-250R (no contest on top end power).
Once you get used to the WR-250R you won't have a problem and it still has enough low end to make trail riding easy, but it will have less low end.

Vinduroman wrote:

* How much $$ should I expect to spend to mod it to get the engine to perform a bit better?

As mentioned, that depends on what you want to do.
My guestimate is that most spend around $500 doing the typical uncorking mods that rid the bike of it's EPA restrictions and give better throttle response and lower the gearing.
Go read in the Sweet Mods forum for what riders do to these bikes.
It's just the usual stuff.

Vinduroman wrote:

* Is the suspension good to go for an intermediate rider that rides in the woods sensibly?

Yes, as long as you go slow. :)
Up the pace, and you'll feel how the suspension has the typical dual-purpose bike suspension budget cuts.
Like any other bike, it can be made better if you want it to.

Vinduroman wrote:

* What kind of range (miles/MPG) can I expect on a day spent on forest roads, easy/moderate trail?

I read of riders getting anywhere from 40-75mpg.

Vinduroman wrote:

* What sprocket changes are needed to be a better machine in the woods, yet still allow me to do 55-65 blacktop speeds?

The stock gearing is so tall, it's rediculous.
The Yamaha factory knows this.
In my opinion, for doing a lot of trail riding, I'd go with 13/48 at least, and you'll still have a top speed of about 80mph - plenty fast for a 250 single on the street.
Stock is 13/43.
Just don't fall into the trap of thinking you're somehow hurting the bike by hearing it turm some RPM while on the freeway.
It's a 250, not a 1,000 , and that's how it works.

All-in-all, it's the latest version of the Yamaha single-cylindered, 4-stroke dual-purpose bikes of the past, and it performs in a similar fashion as those did:
The basics are these and offer good performance and it's a solid bike - definitely the best 250cc dual-purpose bike Yamaha has had, especially in engine performance (once uncorked).

The main drawbacks in off-road performance are the same they've always been:
The suspension is the victim of cost-cutting during production.
The bike comes stifled with EPA regulations for noise and exhaust emissions.
The bike weighs more than an off-road-only bike.
:)

Let's make this four posts with four different answers all saying the same thing (You'll love this bike!)

You won't notice the difference in low end grunt because you won't be spending much time there. This motor loves to rev! Its not bad off the bottom end at all imo, and I've yet to meet a hill it won't lug and climb if I'm man enough to try it.

I don't think anything really needs to be done to the motor. I've had mine both ways, bone stock to full exhaust and programmer with the airbox opened up to back to stock exhaust (had to leave the airbox since I cut the inlet scoop a bit), and I've ridden one with the big bore kit. Stock has better low end response, but the full exhaust is much punchier in the mid range and top end. Off road, its a wash I didn't really notice a difference, on road the mods help pulling out of tight corners and pushing through the twisties. Only get the big bore if you really want more low end torque, as that's where it primarly gains power over stock, with a penalty of mod vibes.

Suspension is a personal choice. If as an intermediate rider you hammer down on the berms, do some mild jumps, and really rock the bike off road, then you'll want to get the suspension valving done. I like the stock suspension with heavier fluid in both ends, but I'm 'slow' and didn't want the harshness on road or on easy trails that you get with a stiff race oriented suspension. Your opinion will vary, fortunately there are options.

40-75mpg is my range, usually averaging 55-60mpg on trails and commuting. Using my average, stock tank that's 100-120 miles, with my IMS 3.1gal thats 150-180miles, with the Safari tank thats 170-200 miles, with the new IMS 4.75gal that's 225-250+ miles.

The stock gearing works fine for everything except aggressive trail use. I bumped up to 13/46 when I installed a taller than stock rear tire (D606) and its a little busier on the freeway but better in the tight stuff and a good compromise gearing. If you're really doing tight woods, then something steeper would be in order. If you're going to be traveling more, long gearing like stock works perfect.

A really great thing about the bike, to me, is how damn quiet it is when stock. Its nice being able to sneak down trails or find a camping spot late without alerting everyone to your presence. EPA 'crap', I didn't notice a damn bit of difference taking it off vs. leaving it on. It was funny, riding one last loop of the last ORV loop in MD (closed indefinitely as of today) a week ago, several people we passed noted how damn quiet mine and BigBird's bikes were, after they caught back up to us. Meanwhile, we could hear a RMX with a motocross pipe that we passed but repassed us after taking a breather ripping across the other half of the loop, several miles away up on the ridge.

go look at Rick Ramsey's website and links. You'll get the whole story from someone who's been where you are, several times.

www.rickramsey.net/WR250R.htm

Thanks very much to all of you for taking the time to share your impressions of the WRR.

You all are pretty much confirming my suspicions: It's one fine little scooter that will likely do what I want it to do, and do it in spades.

FWIW: Today I went on about a 60 mile dual sport type jaunt on my trusty ol' tagged XR250R. Had a good time (if you overlook yet more mountain-raping by the USFS ), but again, riding along and enjoying the experience, I know full well the time is long past for a new ride.

I don't have a time element on when I'll pull the trigger and bring home a WRR. It could be within weeks, or maybe a few months. Besides, my favorite riding seasons (fall/winter/early spring) are coming to a close. Our nasty-hot weather will be here before long... so I won't be as apt to want to take a spin through the mountain trails. Thus, I have time to look/shop/etc. As far as I'm concerned now, the WRR currently has no serious rival vying to become my next bike.

As for my statement of riding "sensibly": Fully 95% of my trail riding is solo riding.

I don't have any riding bud's that live close, nor do I want to have to wait until I can try to arrange time/date to ride with those that are some distance away. I can only ride when I get the time and opportunity. Invariably, my time and opportunity doesn't match those of my riding friends. Except for some occasional organized competition and organized DS rides, this has pretty much been my trail riding style for the past couple decades.

Riding by yourself, you have to ride "sensibly". I no longer take undue risks, nor ride anywhere near my skills limit, or anything like that. I now ride for the pure joy of off road riding. I don't thrive on competition or pushing my limits. I ride in a manner so as to survive the day and come back to the truck in one piece. This has worked extremely well for me and has allowed me to amass trail riding miles well into the six figures without serious incident. I intend to keep it that way.

Thus, as you can see, the bike will not be used as a race-rocket in any sense of the word. Besides, it is the wrong bike for that anyway. What it WILL be used for is a continuation of what I enjoy doing, as well as expanding on the theme with my wife and doing some weekend rides in the Ozarks. (She has a little DRZ 125L that I've equipped with lights. She's ridden since the 70's, but not nearly as much, or as extreme, as I have in the past. I intend to be replacing her DRZ 125L sometime this year as well with a bike with electric start.) In addition, I MAY ride it to work (about 28 miles, one way) every now and then when the weather is perfect and I have an urge to do so.

So...

The above explains the odd questions I originally asked... but sounds like I have little to worry about.

Neat scoot... gotta' get one.

You won't regret it mate. The WR250R is basically the XR250 of the 21st century. It holds it's own with the big boys too. I've been on tight trail rides with the latest greatest 300cc 2 stroke Euro bikes and spent plenty of time waiting for them to catch up. It basically sounds perfect for what you want to do.

playwme wrote:

I've been on tight trail rides with the latest greatest 300cc 2 stroke Euro bikes and spent plenty of time waiting for them to catch up.

As good as the WRR is, it will not keep up with a 300cc 2 stroke in the woods. Unless of course the person riding isn't very skilled. But in capable hands that bike will leave you in it's smoke cloud. I consider myself a pretty good rider and I was following an ex enduro rider on his KTM 300 2-stroke, no way in hell I could even come close to keeping pace with him.

Have you seen my pictures?

Best. Bike. Ever.

Needs a tank, new tires, and a bigger rear sprocket. THAT'S IT. Power is fine. I wouldn't mod it unless you feel like it's a slug after taking it out many times.
It's just that simple.









And I've been riding for 31 years, so I know everything.

trav72 wrote:

playwme wrote:

I've been on tight trail rides with the latest greatest 300cc 2 stroke Euro bikes and spent plenty of time waiting for them to catch up.

As good as the WRR is, it will not keep up with a 300cc 2 stroke in the woods. Unless of course the person riding isn't very skilled. But in capable hands that bike will leave you in it's smoke cloud. I consider myself a pretty good rider and I was following an ex enduro rider on his KTM 300 2-stroke, no way in hell I could even come close to keeping pace with him.

The guys I was riding with were no enduro champs but they weren't amateurs either. The WR's main playing card is it's tractability and ease of use. The kind of woods I'm talking about is tight stuff where you hardly ever go over 2nd gear. Power doesn't help here, and the characteristics of the WR really help in this terrain. Hills that were really taking their toll on the euro bikes were knocked over with ease on the WR. At one stage I had to swap bikes with a guy on a KTM300EXC cause he was absolutely stuffed from trying to get up this hill. He jumped on the WR (which has been nicknamed "the little blue pony") and went straight up no worries. I was nice and relaxed from riding the WR all day so I still had enough energy to get the KTM up but riding that bike was hard work.

A 300cc 2-stroke can't keep up with my WRR in San Francisco since they'd be in jail.

playwme wrote:

The guys I was riding with were no enduro champs but they weren't amateurs either. The WR's main playing card is it's tractability and ease of use. The kind of woods I'm talking about is tight stuff where you hardly ever go over 2nd gear. Power doesn't help here, and the characteristics of the WR really help in this terrain. Hills that were really taking their toll on the euro bikes were knocked over with ease on the WR. At one stage I had to swap bikes with a guy on a KTM300EXC cause he was absolutely stuffed from trying to get up this hill. He jumped on the WR (which has been nicknamed "the little blue pony") and went straight up no worries. I was nice and relaxed from riding the WR all day so I still had enough energy to get the KTM up but riding that bike was hard work.

Yeah that's what I'm talking about as well. I ride lots of single track with guys on wide array of bikes. KLX250's, Honda 250 2-stroke, KTM's, Husky's and a couple of other WRR's. I would say that most of them have trouble keeping pace with me on ST. I'll agree that the bike does well. But let's not kid ourselves and say that the R is equal to a KTM300 2-stroke in tight ST. Obviously the rider is huge part to the equation. But like I said before, in capable hands you aren't going to keep pace with one. In your example, I would say that you have more skill and ability than your 2-stroke friend. Put 2 equally skilled riders on each bike and the 2 smoke KTM walks away.

Spot on Trav72.
I've got the 10 WRR and a KTM 380--a 2T. With me riding both bikes back to back the KTM will walk away from the WRR everywhere but cruising the highway and on fuel mileage. It will pull hills that completely bog the WRR, point to point accel no contest KTM, low end lugging no contest KTM, ST sand dirt rocks doesn't matter the KTM is a better choice in a bike.
That said, if I'm riding TO GET TO the dirt\sand or dual sporting the WRR is my choice--a much better dual sport--most likely I will choose the WRR for the TAT this summer--would never consider the KTM. Yes the KTM is titled tagged and street legal but it is miserable on the street except for short jaunts and a 250 mile dual sport ride will see the KTM run out of gas so fast it will make your head spin
I agree with Trav72 the rider makes the difference as does the choice of route.


Quote Trav72--Yeah that's what I'm talking about as well. I ride lots of single track with guys on wide array of bikes. KLX250's, Honda 250 2-stroke, KTM's, Husky's and a couple of other WRR's. I would say that most of them have trouble keeping pace with me on ST. I'll agree that the bike does well. But let's not kid ourselves and say that the R is equal to a KTM300 2-stroke in tight ST. Obviously the rider is huge part to the equation. But like I said before, in capable hands you aren't going to keep pace with one. In your example, I would say that you have more skill and ability than your 2-stroke friend. Put 2 equally skilled riders on each bike and the 2 smoke KTM walks away.[/quote]

Well... this may not be as easy as I thought.

I have found an '11 WRR at the regional dealer (at nearly $7,000). I had hoped to find leftover stock, or purchase a low-mile used WRR. Had my local dealer (he's out of WRR's) try to find a leftover. No joy.

There aren't any leftover or used WRR's out there. I've been watching eBay for a month... and no WRR's.

Not a huge problem at the moment, for I'm still waiting on some land to sell before I plunk down the cash. (I don't want to do a payment.)

BUT... it is a bit eye-opening.

Guess Yamaha's "low volume" policy is paying off: The dealers sold their limited stock of WRR's... and folks like 'em too well to put 'em up for sale!

I think the WR is gaining a reputation as the best small dual-sport out there. Do a google on it and read all the reviews, in each one the WR spanks everything else in it's range...

It really is that good, if you don't weigh over 190 pounds...

Lol my little brother weighs 220 and he always wants to trade bikes. He's still drooling over it so i told him to quit procrastinating and buy one. Those who procrastinate, masturbate.

This bike rips plan and simple...you can't go wrong!

I only procrastinate when my wife is out of town. Usually.

I have a 5 gallon bucket of Ultra Duty II here Gus, just for you.

Good one. :)

I'll get you back later... :)

SheWolf wrote:

Lol my little brother weighs 220 and he always wants to trade bikes. He's still drooling over it so i told him to quit procrastinating and buy one. Those who procrastinate, masturbate.

I'm 220 at this 'little' bike halls me around just fine.! Oh and it is May you know.

Yes....yes it is.

Just accepted an offer on the land. If all goes well, I'll close on July 11. That is what I've been waiting on before I can really get serious about finding my next dual sport bike.

I'm still very interested in a WRR IF one that I think is a good deal will turn up once money is in hand.

Gotta' admit, though, I've been reading up on a Husqvarna TE310. With my limited knowledge of them thus far, I see the following:

Pros:

Much lighter. (About 60 pounds.)
More torque.
Better suspension.
Serious woods bike.

Cons:

Unknown engine durability. (Ain't been out long.)
Unknown maintenance levels.
Unknown on the mile range per tankful.

IF I'm talking a new 2011 WRR... then I've already found new 2011 TE310's close in price.

We'll see!!!

Fixed

Vinduroman wrote:

Cons:

Unknown engine durability. (Ain't been out long.)
Much higher maintenance levels.
Unknown on the mile range per tankful.
Terrible on the road.
Parts are a pain in the ass to get
Seat might as well be a 2X4