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 oil bleeding bolt

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flatboarder

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PostSubject: oil bleeding bolt   Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:53 am

At rear side of zylinder head there is a bleeding bolt for oil circuit that needs to be removed at oil change immediately after refilling. Should not be tightened too much. However, did anyone realize oil coming from that source when running at full throttle with high rev over some time? I found too much oil in engine after first service and already removed 100ml, but still there is some drain at the bleeding bolt. Will remove some more oil from engine. It should be around max or sligfhtly above at the moment. Will retest later. Note it does not occur at all when riding moderately. Regards, Phil
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SheWolf
Alpha Rider
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PostSubject: Re: oil bleeding bolt   Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:56 am

Can't say I've ever had any leaks from there, Phil. I do know others have had leaks coming from the left side head bolt, but only after they've overfilled the bike with oil. With mine, an oil change took 1300 mL and that included changing the filter. No leaks. dunno

_________________
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ZED

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PostSubject: Re: oil bleeding bolt   Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:20 am

No leaks for me either and my bike lives in the high-rev area.
I've never pulled the bleeder bolt either.
I just dump the oil, change the filter, plug it back up and add oil to near the top line on the glass.
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mwakey

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PostSubject: Re: oil bleeding bolt   Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:36 pm

Perhaps you just over tightened the bleed bolt and smashed the crush washer. I wouldn't keep draining oil from your engine because it's leaking at the bleed bolt. If the crush washer is damaged it will continue to leak as long as there is oil pressure. If you keep draining oil out to stop the leak soon or later you will run the engine too low on oil and do damage. Replace the crush washer on the bleed bolt and add the proper amount of oil to your engine and you should be good to go.
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flatboarder

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PostSubject: Re: oil bleeding bolt   Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:45 am

Reduced oil level to standard, it is in between markers now when precisely keeping bike at upright position. Oil drain is reduced now. When riding full rev/full throttle, I did not experience any drain any more, but when switching off engine, after a moment there still was some light drain. This will be checked professionally, soon. In fact, there was way too much oil in it after service. Do not like that. Had to remove more than 200ml. Next time I will check it immediately after service.
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flatboarder

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PostSubject: Solved   Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:47 pm

Adjusted oil level pedantically. Another test run. Slowly warm up, then after a while go full throttle, full rev, quite some time uphill. Engine stayed 100% dry outside, even after turning off. I had turned around the CU washer of the bleeding bolt mwakey was talking about since I did not have any other in my reservoir. Perfect.

To finish it off, I then made another oil change (2000km), this time did it myself as like for the first time at 200km (previous one at 1000km had been done by shop). Emptied everything. Oil looked good. Turned rear wheel to move piston to get out even more. Inserted new filter, Filled in 1300ml. Did bleeding procedure. Filled in another 100ml. Let run. Checked. Perfect. As Yamaha tells, it needs exactly 1.4l to get oil level perfectly right for a total refill with filter change.
No dealer stop tomorrow :)

From now on I will do all oil change myself, even for service stops. No need for unprofessional oil submerging.

-- Phil
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mwakey

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PostSubject: Re: oil bleeding bolt   Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:27 pm

Careful with the crush washer on your oil drain plug too. It's a good idea to use a torque wrench on plugs with crush washers on them so you don't over tighten them. They are made of soft metal and crush flat to seal. Once they get crushed once, they may not seal good when retightened. They can be used over again if they are not too deformed, but it is always a good idea to replace them each time you do an oil change. It's cheap insurance, and beats a messy oil leak.
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flatboarder

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PostSubject: Re: oil bleeding bolt   Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:38 am

mwakey wrote:
Careful with the crush washer on your oil drain plug too. It's a good idea to use a torque wrench on plugs with crush washers on them so you don't over tighten them. They are made of soft metal and crush flat to seal. Once they get crushed once, they may not seal good when retightened. They can be used over again if they are not too deformed, but it is always a good idea to replace them each time you do an oil change. It's cheap insurance, and beats a messy oil leak.

Yeah. I did replace the oil drain washer, since I had got one in my reservoir. Also I am definitely using torque wrench witn 20Nm on it. For the bleeding bolt -since it has only got very low torque- I will tighten it manually. Also there is not that much space to get there.

However, as always I will closely review all those bolts after first short ride.

Update: not solved. After riding to work this morning (25km) without any pressure, I realize it did start draining oil again, quite a few. Oel level increased a bit now, showing slightly higher than max level depending on very light movement of bike when taking measure (there are exactly 1.4l inside). Also I realize, this time it does not drain from bleeding bolt. There is no oil around it when wiping that area. But it definitely comes from somewhere there. Will totally reopen that issue and will definitely have it checked now since I cannot see any other item at that region that would possible drain oil. Also, it is not coming down from upper side of cylinder head. Those parts are dry.
I wonder how it could stay totally dry at yesterdays tests when riding full throttle. But then, I did the oil change in the meantime, so something was changed definitely. Getting quite curious about it.

Phil
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mwakey

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PostSubject: Re: oil bleeding bolt   Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:47 am

Check this thread on TT. Is this where your oil is leaking?


http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=772131&highlight=oil+leak
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flatboarder

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PostSubject: Re: oil bleeding bolt   Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:20 am

mwakey wrote:
Check this thread on TT. Is this where your oil is leaking?


http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=772131&highlight=oil+leak

Thanks for the pointer! Really good! It does not appear to be the same source for it, but it looks identically. I cannot find oil coming from that gasket, but it just rinses downward over it, so it may look alike. It definitely drains from somewhere around the bleeding bolt, but possibly it is not the bleeding bolt itself. It will continue running down in 2 ways, split by some object/flange residing below the bleeding bolt. One part of it comes down at left side crank case, the other will be collected at electric starter and will also run down at right side passing by oil cap etc.
There is some sensor at rear side of cylinder head. They will check it as well, but I do not believe it was this item, since it starts top and left of it in my opinion.
Regards, Phil
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mwakey

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PostSubject: Re: oil bleeding bolt   Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:05 pm

If not the head gasket, then maybe the valve cover seal is leaking. Can't think of anything above the bleed bolt except that. The sensor behind the head you speak of is the water temp sensor. It wouldn't be leaking oil, it would leak coolant. The only other thing back there is the timing chain tensioner right below the bleed bolt. It could leak oil. Let us know what the dealer says.
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flatboarder

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PostSubject: Re: oil bleeding bolt   Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:22 pm

mwakey wrote:
If not the head gasket, then maybe the valve cover seal is leaking. Can't think of anything above the bleed bolt except that. The sensor behind the head you speak of is the water temp sensor. It wouldn't be leaking oil, it would leak coolant. The only other thing back there is the timing chain tensioner right below the bleed bolt. It could leak oil. Let us know what the dealer says.

Looks like I was not so wrong. They disassembled cyl.head area and finally just tightened the bleeding bolt once more, using new washer. Valve cover was perfectly ok, they told me. In fact, I just took a full blown test ride with some additional inner city section (Salzburg, you know), and it kept dry, as like it did with my yesterdays test ride before I did the final oil change.
That moment I had another look while it is parked outside and cooling down, and it shows some slight thin layer at some very limited area, nearly invisible, but there is no oil draining. Will see, but I think one can live with that. One would not detect it without searching for.
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mwakey

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PostSubject: Re: oil bleeding bolt   Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:32 pm

Good news. thumb
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King Wolf

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PostSubject: Re: oil bleeding bolt   Tue Jun 09, 2009 1:11 am

SheWolf wrote:
Can't say I've ever had any leaks from there, Phil. I do know others have had leaks coming from the left side head bolt, but only after they've overfilled the bike with oil. With mine, an oil change took 1300 mL and that included changing the filter. No leaks. dunno


So like say you do put to much oil in. And it starts to leak out on the left side of the cylinder head.
Once you let some oil out will the leak stop? Or will it still leak there untill you get a new gasket?

Just curious...
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flatboarder

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PostSubject: Re: oil bleeding bolt   Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:14 am

King Wolf wrote:
SheWolf wrote:
Can't say I've ever had any leaks from there, Phil. I do know others have had leaks coming from the left side head bolt, but only after they've overfilled the bike with oil. With mine, an oil change took 1300 mL and that included changing the filter. No leaks. dunno


So like say you do put to much oil in. And it starts to leak out on the left side of the cylinder head.
Once you let some oil out will the leak stop? Or will it still leak there untill you get a new gasket?

Just curious...

Overfilling will definitely make it worse, but leak at bleeding bolt also occured with normal amount of oil, even with low level (less than max when really hot).

SheWolf, when doing oil change, I will incline bike left and right for some time, also will turn rear wheel with 6.gear to slowly move piston to get all out. Additionally give it some air at 8bar pressure into oil drainage.

However, filling with 1.4l will bring new oil level to max (including filter change, as you stated), and I understand that one might remove some oil after warm up, since oil level will further increase then. I will stick with it as it is, since I know, there are 1.4l exactly. Also note, it very much depends on how the bike is balanced and gound slope, so one needs to be very precise with that, anyway.

To make it complete, I am using fully synthetical oil at the moment for the first time, some Total 10W50 (it was a gift:) ). Used to run with Motul 5100 10W40 (partial synthetic) up to now and will go back to using that Motul. There were no problems considering the oil I used up to now.
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lancek




PostSubject: Re: oil bleeding bolt   Sun Aug 09, 2009 8:15 pm

The bleed bolt - can someone post a pic of its exact location please? I did an oil change (first one after 200kms) and everything seems to have gone fine - but I then read about the bleed bold and the picture is far from descriptive.

Many thanks
Lance
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mwakey

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PostSubject: Re: oil bleeding bolt   Sun Aug 09, 2009 10:15 pm

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inspector

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PostSubject: Re: oil bleeding bolt   Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:58 pm

^^Hey, that pic looks familiar. :)

*I never did use the bolt, like most everyone it looks like. Everything seems to be fine.
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ZED

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PostSubject: Re: oil bleeding bolt   Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:53 am

11,000 hard km and counting. Changing the filter about every other change. Never touched the bleeder bolt. No problems so far here. thumb
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inspector

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PostSubject: Re: oil bleeding bolt   Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:39 pm

*would have posted this in my original thread, but that thread changed a little

change my oil and filter today and I thought, what the heck, lets open up the bleeder bolt. Turns out it is just like the drain bolt but smaller, crush washer and all. Started weeping oil less then a second after cranking the engine. Luckily I had my finger over the kill switch. If you put an shop towel under it, won't leak much at all.

I guess one of the reasons for using it would be to make sure you installed the oil filter correctly and put everything back together right. Also if for some other reason you suspect oil pump failure?

Anyway, I won't be using it again.
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mwakey

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PostSubject: Re: oil bleeding bolt   Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:46 am

It's impossible to install the oil filter backwards. You'll never get the cover back on.
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