Ran great now it won't Start

Took the WRR up to Tellico Plains for 3 days of DS riding over the July 4th weekend.

Stayed at the Cherohala Mountain Trails Campground (great place to stay if you are up there) and got some info from the owner of some good places to ride.

Came home, parked the bike, and then left for a week long business trip. Once I got back I washed the bike down and cleaned/lubed the chain. Usually I would always start and run the bike after washing it down (garden hose - no pressure washer) but this time I did not.

Left again for a week long business trip and decided to swap out the knobbies for my Shinko 705's to ride the bike into =work for the next couple of weeks. Finished changing the wheels and just pushed the bike to it's parking spot - again I did not try to start.

Next morning I geared up and went to start the bike. Cranked well, had a couple of backfires but no start. Tried hold the throttle wide open and cranking but no joy. Threw it on the trickle charger for the rest of the day and when it said it was fully charged I tried to start it again. Cranked over but would not run - not even a backfire.

Pulled the seat and airbox cover - filter was dirty but not bad and I cleaned in anyways. Remembered that I did not run it after the wash and that it has been rainy and humid out here over the last couple of weeks so I push it into the basement which is air conditioned and has a dehumidifier running all the time.

Also remembered on the last couple of rides the bike would pop on decel which is something it hadn't done before. I have not changed anything since getting the bike dnyo'd and the PC5 setup.

So later today I will probably pull the tank and replace the spark plug with my spare that I have been carrying around for the last 4000 miles.

Any other ideas? May try starter fluid before pulling the tank and plug.

Sucks that your bike won't start. The bike needs air flow, spark, and fuel. The goal is to pinpoint which is missing. So what I am saying is don't just change the spark plug, but actually check for spark. If it starts and runs pretty healthy with starting fluid, but then peters out, it would most likely be a fuel problem. Good luck.

Already knew I had air... suspected I had fuel since I could smell gas at the exhaust after cranking for awhile. Figured I would give it a shot of starting fluild to verify and yep that pretty much confirmed. Not even a pop when I cranked.

Had the battery on the trickle charger all day and noticed it still was not fully charged so now I am suspecting a weak battery. I think it is about 3 years old now. Have a new LiFeO ready to go in it next.

After that I am putting a new plug in if it still doesn't fire up.

You said it cranked over ok & you've added fuel. I'm betting it's not getting spark. Based on several other reports these do seem to be plug sensitive.

Well new plug and battery but still no start. No engine codes. Just cranks but won't fire.

Definitely has fuel.

Only other thing I can think of is the coil pack. Kicking myself now for not checking for a spark when I was swapping the plug.

Ok so after looking over the connectors again I finally decide to button the WRR up and bring it to my dealer. Decent shop and I have a long time relationship with them so I know they will not rip me off... but my manhood has been dealt a blow.

So I toss the side panels on and then the seat. I head upstairs to grab the set of key to remove the top box. Once I get the top box off I think.. wth one more shot.

So I crank away... wait was that a little pop?? Crank some more and few little pops.. crack the throttle wide open and more pops.. followed by some rumbles.. and then..

ROARRRR!!!!

then it dies..

Crank it again and it fires up.. some pretty good smoke coming out of the exhaust as I rev it. Now it is idling so I decide to push it out of the basement. Get it outside and rev it some more.. more smoke but lessening.

Take it for a spin and the throttle response and power seems fine. The idle is low and a little loping so I turn out the air screw a bit. Smooths out.

Shut it off and starts right up again.

So I will leave it parked outside and see if it starts in the am.

Water went in the exhaust & then cylinder? Might've been your smoke

4play wrote:

Water went in the exhaust & then cylinder? Might've been your smoke

Well I didn't take the bike swimming.. but I did wash it.

Maybe some water went down the exhaust but it would not have been much.

In your travels, did you trailer bike, or was it all riding to and from before the bike sat for a few weeks?

Just wondering if you got some kind of vapor lock or air lock in the gas lines, or within the fuel pump itself?   

Was bike sitting out in hot sun for many days on end? Or always garaged when you weren't riding it?

Am I right in thinking you went through some pretty big elevation changes from mountains to home?

Is it possible the PC-V was not set appropriately for such elevation changes?

Were your backfire and popping symptoms something you only noticed in the mountains?

Also....if you remove gas tank again for any reason, I'd suggest you drain all gas from it (use that gas for lawn mower or something) and replace with the freshest high test gas you can get from a gas station you fully trust.

After all the messing around you've done it would suck to find out you simply got some bad gas.

We were riding around in Tellico Plains TN which is pretty much the same altitude as where I live.  Not a drop of rain during the whole 3 days.

We (my gf was on her Super Sherpa) did have a guy on a KTM 990 Adventure join us for a day - ran into him while filling up one morning and he was asking directions on how to get to Witt Road which was where we were heading.  He rode with us for the morning and then his bike started to mysteriously shutoff and not run.  The last time it did that we messed with it for about 30 minutes and then it started running again and he made a beeline for home.  He thought it may have been overheating in some of the 'tight stuff' we were doing.  Maybe tight for a 990 but not for us on the two fiddy's.

We trailered the bikes back home (about 3 hours) - again no rain.  Got the bike home, took it off the trailer, started it, rode it around to the back yard and parked it.

I had to pack up for a business trip the next day and did not wash down the bike.  The bike sits on my back patio off the walk out basement under a covered deck.  Doesn't see direct rain.

The next weekend I washed the bike.  I use one of those wash wands you get from Walmart that holds a cup of soap that you can turn on and off.  No pressure washer.  Normally I run the bike right after washing but the caked up chain caught my attention and I set about cleaning that.  Then pushed the bike bake into it's parking spot on the patio under the deck.

Two weeks of travel later, it has been rainy and humid while I was gone, I pushed the bike out to put on my street wheels for the next few weeks.  One I got the wheels on I parked it since it was late at night.

Next morning I went to start it and it backfired a couple of times and made a few pops but then nothing. It would just crank and crank but no ignition.

And so was it until late last night (started up fine this morning too).  Basically I cleaned the air filter and replaced the spark plug during all of this.  Part of me wonders if I flooded it, maybe the plug was bad, then after replacing the plug it took awhile to clear the intake and cylinder.   Then again I suspect it may be something related to washing the bike and not running it right afterwards.  I am thinking the WRR does not care much for water.  During our COBDR trip my buddies WRR died at an intersection in Durango, CO after pretty much two days of riding in the rain.  We pushed it to a service station and it started back up after about 10 minutes.

Maybe the best explanation is it caught the KTM flu after playing with that 990 out near Tellico.

All I know now is that I will be making sure I always run the bike after washing it down... plus wear my lucky socks that I was wearing last night when it fired up again.

I would be staggered if the simple act of washing a dual-sport bike would be detrimental.

I've ridden mine in some very heavy downpours. I've washed mine a few times. It's sat out in the rain a few times while I've been at work. One time it was damn near knocked over due to extreme wind and sideways rain for a solid 20 minutes. A quick tornado watch was issued at that time.


I have a 2008 with original fuel pump.

Knock on wood, I've never had anything like what you describe happen to me.


If you tear the bike apart again, maybe consider disconnecting the PC-V and going back to the original setup.   

motokid wrote:

I would be staggered if the simple act of washing a dual-sport bike would be detrimental.

I've ridden mine in some very heavy downpours. I've washed mine a few times. It's sat out in the rain a few times while I've been at work. One time it was damn near knocked over due to extreme wind and sideways rain for a solid 20 minutes. A quick tornado watch was issued at that time.


I have a 2008 with original fuel pump.

Knock on wood, I've never had anything like what you describe happen to me.


If you tear the bike apart again, maybe consider disconnecting the PC-V and going back to the original setup.   

I think the 4Play may have the best idea what happened - during the wash I sprayed water down the exhaust. Usually I try to stay away from the end of the pipe but shit happens.    The thing was it did act up like that time when I took it swimming in CO and got water down the pipe.

I actually have been thinking about taking the bike back to stock and riding it for awhile to see what it is like. What I mean by stock is putting on the original muffler and pulling the PC-V. I did the Ultimate Airbox Mod Plus so I won't be doing anything to revert that. Maybe play around with the CO setting a bit.

Just thought it would be nice to see how much of a difference I will notice. Should be easy to do and would not take a lot of time. In fact I can leave the PC-V in place and just tuck all the connections out of the way for a bit. If I like what I have then I could pull it in about 20 minutes.

Plus I have been secretly lusting at a 2014 KTM 690 Enduro R

690's have a large percentage of short term owners. People that "think" they are a hwy capable dirt bike. I have spent a couple of days on one & have a good riding buddy with one plus several Ex owner riding buds & other than the HP, a WR250R is far superior for my use which is mostly off road . Other than the financial advantage, I would not even consider a 690 in trade for my R2. YMMV
Stock the suspension is so, so,  IMHO worse than the R2, believe it or not the R2 has a much stronger sub frame for carrying gear, you'll never be able to carry enough fuel to equal the fuel range of the R2 even after spending a ton of money. The R2 will run off & hide from a 690 in the woods or twisty two track.

Don't sell the R2 until after you've ridden a 690 enough to wear off the new...

rsteiger wrote:

- during the wash I sprayed water down the exhaust.  

Dude....ummmmm............

motokid wrote:

rsteiger wrote:

- during the wash I sprayed water down the exhaust.  

Dude....ummmmm............

LOL     

Funny thing is I actually have one of those plugs and it was about 4 feet away from where I was washing the WRR sitting in the exhaust of my GasGas XC250. I won't get into to much detail about when I rebuilt the GasGas carb because I could not get the bike to start. As I was putting the seat back on I noticed that the plug was still in the exhaust....   

Let me rephrase the original statement your Honor!

During the wash I may have sprayed some water down the exhaust.

Like I said I try to avoid that area of the bike when I am washing it down but shit can happen. I do not actually remember spraying water into the exhaust but I also had two dogs running around the patio beating me with large clubs (aka sticks) that they wanted me to throw while I was doing this. So there were times where my attention was not focused on where that stream of water was going.

At any point I think I will be removing all the aftermarket bits from the motor and ride it stock for awhile. I suspect it will still be fun.

And if I want to get stupid I can do that on the Beta.

rsteiger wrote:

We (my gf was on her Super Sherpa) did have a guy on a KTM 990 Adventure join us for a day - ran into him while filling up one morning and he was asking directions on how to get to Witt Road which was where we were heading.  He rode with us for the morning and then his bike started to mysteriously shutoff and not run.  The last time it did that we messed with it for about 30 minutes and then it started running again and he made a beeline for home.  He thought it may have been overheating in some of the 'tight stuff' we were doing.

I don't suppose you two went and bought gas at the same place? Both of you having "bike won't run" symptoms and all...

Jäger wrote:

rsteiger wrote:

We (my gf was on her Super Sherpa) did have a guy on a KTM 990 Adventure join us for a day - ran into him while filling up one morning and he was asking directions on how to get to Witt Road which was where we were heading.  He rode with us for the morning and then his bike started to mysteriously shutoff and not run.  The last time it did that we messed with it for about 30 minutes and then it started running again and he made a beeline for home.  He thought it may have been overheating in some of the 'tight stuff' we were doing.

I don't suppose you two went and bought gas at the same place?  Both of you having "bike won't run" symptoms and all...

Very astute observation!

Yes we did! We both got premium but the gf filled up on regular.

Judging by the way my bike is behaving at the moment, yours sounds like it has a failing fuel pump. Mine did the same thing - started and ran for a few seconds, then stopped. Then it eventually ran again, almost normal. It's also started detonating here and there. There wasn't any water for miles, and we all used the same fuel.

66T wrote:

Judging by the way my bike is behaving at the moment, yours sounds like it has a failing fuel pump. Mine did the same thing - started and ran for a few seconds, then stopped. Then it eventually ran again, almost normal. It's also started detonating here and there. There wasn't any water for miles, and we all used the same fuel.

Well I would be pretty pissed off if it was the fuel pump. A little over a year ago I was swapping out my 3.1 gallon tank for my current 4.7 gallon tank and managed to snap off the fuel outlet on the pump. So I ordered a new one from Service Honda and that one only has about 4000 miles on it.

Going to stick with some sort of water issue - either via the gas or misdirected spray from the hose for now since it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.   

Actually the bike has been running great ever since that episode. Today I put the stock exhaust back on and will play with the PCV for a bit. Would like to see how it behaves without the PCV and using that CO adjustment. Bascially all I have done was some sort of Ultimate Airbox mod which should only flow more air at idle and low throttle since the overall opening has not changed. If that is the case I think the CO mode change may have a decent impact.

We shall see... love playing around with this little bike.

Wow, going to follow this, I have the exact same thing happening with my 5/2008 WR250R.

And tonight its now dead in the garage, it was acting up last weekend, so I changed the FMF program, and was then  running perfect, today it craps the bed, and seems to go into a default mode, where it will barely run...

MBevans wrote:

Wow, going to follow this, I have the exact same thing happening with my 5/2008 WR250R.

And tonight its now dead in the garage, it was acting up last weekend, so I changed the FMF program, and was then  running perfect, today it craps the bed, and seems to go into a default mode, where it will barely run...

Not to disappoint but I did put the stock exhaust back on along and had intended on putting the EXUP and PAIR system back on but then found a map for the stock exhaust and airbox setup on the Power Commander website. So after I bolted up everything I backed up my current map and loaded the stock map.

More low end grunt but I can tell I lost some on the top end. Looks like my top speed is down 4 or 5 MPH. However, most of the time I am not riding with the throttle wide open but do spend a lot of time in first, second, and third gears on some of the trails I ride. So I think the extra low end punch will be a nice thing.

Going to leave it be for a bit then put all the other bits back on and pull the PCV for awhile.

Funny thing is I was talking to an ex-coworker from Ford who use to develop their powertrain maps for the PCM's on new vehicles. He reminded me that there are about a half dozen things they have to balance when developing a map. The one that gave him the biggest head ache was fuel. Fuel is tough because it is not the same across the country. You may have a decent map that ran great one day only to find it struggling in later testing. In the end they test and tune with a broad range of fuel to try and get the best compromise.

I told him about the dyno run I did to set up my PCV and he said that I probably had the best map for that tank of fuel. Said that while the manufacturers map may not be perfection it will work pretty damn good with just about any fuel due to all the development and testing. So I will be going back to stock eventually but I may take a meandering route getting there.

As far as the no start issue I had I still think it is either water related (in the fuel or inadvertently down the exhaust pipe) or the spark plug. I wasn't getting so much as a pop until after I changed the plug. Time will tell I guess.

Yeah, dumped the gas, checked the pump, seemed fine yet it is a 5/2008 model without changed pump, still OEM stuff. But after flushing the tank and changing the plug, rode for 2 hrs today and all is fine... Modded air box FMF with good program, full FMF Q4 system.
Peace on earth...

Hmmm...

Same thing happened again.. except this time I ran the bike right after I washed it. I let it sit for a couple of days and now no start... couple of pops but will not run.

This time I will change out the air filter and see what happens. We did some riding in some heavy dust over the weekend and I let a friend borrow my WRR while I rode my Beta. At one point in the ride the power was way down on the Beta and I pulled the air filter - I could have grown tomatoes on it. Did some on trail cleaning and it was good to go.

Suspect the WRR filter is as bad or worse since it is a considerably smaller filter.