dropped bike now wont start

Well i was riding along a 4x4 track yesterday then dropped my bike attempting to turn around and it mysteriously didn't want to start up again. i have a 2010 WR250R with 6200km. my bike cranks over fine but wont fire, the fuel pump is brand new and primes normally. Some 4x4 drivers came passed and happened to have a can of hair spray so we sprayed some in the airbox and pushed the starter with full throttle, it roared to life, sputtered, then died. i think the fuel isn't getting to the cylinder.

maybe another fuel injection problem?

More detail?

When you say "dropped" you mean what? Which side? Did it slam bars hard to one side?
Was bike running on it's side then it turned off on it's own?

Check the lean angle sensor on top of airbox under the seat.

Check the start/stop button on handlebar.
Check connector between radiator and frame.

Check fuses.

In your signature does it say something about and after-market fuel pump?


Does bike start today?

Good info Motokid! Wish you were my service writer at the shop I work at. Would be nice if they knew how to interview a customer and write up there repairs.

Ok so.. bike still doesn't start. ive checked the fuses, lean angle sensor, the kill switch, clutch switch, kickstand switch, and the spark plug (might replace it just in case), but haven't checked the connector between the radiator and frame yet.

By 'drop' i mean loosing balance at low speed and the bike falling over (right side), i dont remember it being very rough. The bike idled for a few seconds then cut out.

yes, i have an aftermarket fuel pump that used to be made by CA Cycleworks.

nickthenack9 wrote:

A couple of months ago my fuel pump died and I heard a rumor that the FP-HUS fuel pump was a replacement. So I ordered it from Brad the Bike boy the Australian Distributor (very helpful guy ) but it turned out they changed the design a few days/weeks earlier and I ended up with the new design which didn't fit.
But I managed to swap the pump with the first production model. I installed the pump into the cage, it fitted perfectly, turned the bike on, it had a different priming sound but the bike ran great and has been running great since. I'm glad I went through the trouble of getting the fuel pump because now i have a higher quality pump at about half the price of the yamaha one!!!

Was there a problem with the OEM pump that came with bike?

What prompted the replacement?

Is it possible there's an air pocket in fuel line preventing gas from getting to engine?

Air lock?

You said in earlier post you think bike isn't getting gas.....

Check your gas lines?

Sounds like your lean angle sensor kicked in at first.
If you've checked the basics, probably need to move onto more difficult stuff; checking for fuel pressure & pulse, checking for spark.

Bassendean aye? you're not far away from me, let me know if you need a hand or if you want another riding bud.
Cheers,
Col

The bike came with a faulty pump when i got it second hand, which i discovered the 3rd time i went riding, grrr shouldn't have trusted that guy but other than that the bike was fine.

Never heard of air lock, how would i fix it?
Already checked for spark but don't know how to check fuel pressure & pulse.
Having a riding buddy would be cool but i only have my learners at the moment.

An air-lock would simply be a bubble of air trapped somewhere in a line that would prevent the fuel from getting from point A to point B.


Since you had a tip-over it might be the fuel pump sucked in air before the lean-angle sensor shut the engine off. I'm just guessing here. Thinking out loud.

I'd think after a few days of sitting, and more than a few attempts to start bike over the course of days, something of that nature wold be solved on it's own.

You sure you have plenty of gas in tank?
You sure the fuel pump is priming when you first turn the key?
You sure there's no blown/broken fuses?
You sure your battery and it's connections are in great shape?
You sure the tip-over onto throttle side of bike didn't jar something loose in starter button or that big plug between the tank and the radiator?

No error codes on dash?

Does starter motor try to start bike?

Have you tried starting bike with the airbox door off and airbox completely open?


After double and triple checking all that I'd find the gas line under the tank and unplug it from where it connects to throttle body.

I'd route it into a catch bottle/can of some sort and see if fuel flows through it.

I can't think of much else to check. A low speed tip over shouldn't cause bike not to run.

I wouldn't think a fuel pump trying to suck air for a few seconds would damage pump.



If you find out what the issue is please be sure to report back what you discover.

There is some good info already mentioned here, but as we already know it's a fuel supply problem...runs on external fuel source, ie = hair spray.


So this being the case i would start at the actual fuel pump itself - check for power & earth supply to the fuel pump - should have power briefly with ignition / kill swith on, and at all times whilst cranking. If has supply power & earth, then check for good fuel flow at pipe outlet - proberly best method as described above by Motokid into a glass jar. ( Proberly quicker / easier to do this fuel flow check as the 1st test ). If there is good flow, then i would go straight to the actual injector plug & check for pulse signal at crank - you can buy a special tester to do this, it's called a "noid light" and it will plug directly into the injector harness connector to test for a pulse signal during crank. ( This will confirm ECU operation etc ). These test noid lights are pretty cheap to purchace - maybe around the $30 mark for individual units.


Depending on what you come up with during the above checks will lead you to the next steps of diognosis to your apparent fuel supply problem. Could be anything from the actual fuel pump itself, to a power / connection / fuse / ECU fault. Could be poor connection at fuel injector, to even possible failed injector.


Obviously it seems as though you have at least checked the basic fuses & safety cut out switches - so have you also accessed mode 61 in the DIAG function ? ( Just to check for any possible fault codes that may cause the fuel system to "shut down" ). Maybe code for "lean angle sensor" is registered - not sure if this sensor cuts fuel or spark, but maybe after the initial fall it's still registering as being in the "lean / fall" mode....As in sensor is faulty and still cutting out the fuel ?. As stated i'm not 100% sure how this sensor works, but maybe by simply disconnecting it at the plug it could allow a start up test in case this is the problem - easy enough to do, so worth a quick try. As for possible air lock in fuel system, it is a presurized "self bleeding" fuel system - so by nature of design it would not be a likely scenario - maybe if you had very, very low fuel pressure - in which case it would be that alone that will cause the "no start" rather than by cause of an air lock as such. ( But as Motorkid mentioned he was just thinking out aloud - so it was worth further debate ).


I'm personally suspecting that there may be a problem with that lean sensor now being faulty after that "soft' put-down... If i knew weather it cuts fuel or spark then i would have a more "educated guess", as if it does cut the fuel then i'd almost bet money on that lean angle sensor actually being the problem.


So as far as the fuel system checks go the base tools needed are multi-meter / volt meter & if further testing is needed then get a injector Noid light tester.


Proberly just double check DIAG function mode 61 and again at lean angle sensor - disconnect etc. Also double check for good connections at all ECU, fuel pump & injector harness plugs + at all fuel line connections at pump etc.


Good luck mate,


Cheers.

Well i unplugged the fuel line, put the end in a fuel can, primed the fuel pump and the fuel pump is definitely working and seems to have good flow.

If you unscrew the lean angle sensor and tilt in your hand it'll throw error code 30, if you keep it in that position and turn the bike off then on, error code 30 will come back. If you unplug it it'll give you error code 61 so i think its unlikely that the lean angle sensor is stuck in 'dropped bike mode' without giving an error.

There seems to be a lot of different type noid lights, which one will i need?

Just sayin...battery?

nickthenack9 wrote:

........There seems to be a lot of different type noid lights, which one will i need?..........

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If your un-sure about how to match a suitable N/L to your injector harness then an LED test light may be good enough to at least see if you have some pulse signal during crank.

If you have good fuel flow from the pump outlet hose then the problem is obviously somewhere between there & the injector - by way of either no voltage signal to the injector, or a faulty injector - or a major fuel restriction after that pump outlet.

Have you again tried to run it up on Areo start etc - maybe it will "pickup" and come good again if it can be run for 10~20 sec's or so.

Are there any other codes in DIAG mode ? ( Such as mentioned a possible battery voltage problem ).


Cheers.

I checked the connector between the radiator and the frame unplugged it and plugged it back in, nope not that.
tried jump starting it off my mums car, it cranks faster but still doesnt start.
will a cheap $10 circuit tester work as a noid light?

^^ As long as it's an LED type test light then it should be enough to possibly at least see if there is any pulse signal.... Biggest single problem with a test light is that the aligator clip will be too big / hard to get onto the very small injector harness contact terminals. Best way here would be to use a very small split pin thats been ground down into a point - or by cutting one of the ends of the split pin on a angle with good side cutters to give a pointed pin that can be carefully pushed into the contact harness. ( Don't have it too tight that you have to really force the pin & therefore possibly damage the female contact of the harness ). Once this is done then the aligator clip of the LED test light can be clipped onto the protruding tail of the split pin - then obviously the pointed probe on the test light can be carefully used to get the contact at the other injector harness contact. Crank engine & look for any signal by way of flashing LED on the test light.


Cheers & good luck..... Also please report back with any results

wrong post ~ please disregard

hmm just tried to start the bike in diagnostics mode and the temperature light and "Er_4" came up on the dash...

nickthenack9 wrote:

"Er_4" came up on the dash...

Gaaaaaaaaack.... that's ECU.

Damn, we've seen quite an uptick in ECU issues lately.

You'd never seen that error code before trying to start in diagnostics mode though right?

nickthenack9 wrote:

hmm just tried to start the bike in diagnostics mode and the temperature light and "Er_4" came up on the dash...

Myne does the same, doesn't like being started in diagnostics. Will start in co mode fine though.
Nothing to be alarmed about.
have you checked the injector yet? i reckon it got a bit of junk in it somewhere along the line and got blocked. Shouldn't be too hard to pull out of its o-ring and crank the bike over to see if it sprays ok.

ive never tried starting the bike in diagnostics mode until now.
my bike seems to throw er_4 in all parts of diagnostics mode.

please dont be ECU

Hey mate just try reading all or any code/s via function 61, then clear all codes via function 62 - then try a normal re-start, as in NOT in DIAG mode, and see if anything such as "Er_4" comes up again.

Also it might be worth double checking all fuses, battery connections etc again. Depending on what happens with the DTC re-set & re-start, maybe also disconnect both battery terminals for an extended period of time - such as 1 hour minimum etc.
( Also check actual electrical connector plug at the ECU for security / clean contacts etc. Disconnect, check & re-fit. Maybe best to do this with the battery disconnected to prevent any possible voltage surge / spike etc ).

Did you check for injector pulse / signal with LED test light yet ?


Cheers.

function 61??? 62???

if i try and start the bike normally it doesnt give any errors.

well i did manage to fry an old torch on the battery hahaha after trying to use it as a noid light and not getting anything.

ill try and pick up a circuit tester tomorrow afternoon.

Went passed an auto shop and got a cheap LED circuit tester. Put it on the injector harness and its definitely getting a pulse.
So how do i take out the injector to check if its squirting?

Well mate i have not got my bike on hand just now to have a look, and from memory i can't recall what it's like to get at & remove the injector.....but with some decent base tools & mechanical ability i doupt that it would be very difficult to do.

In any case if you have confirmed the fuel pump & good fuel flow + there is a decent signal at the injector, then it almost certainly sounds like a seized injector solinoid - so if it were me i would look at running the bike up on areo start & at the same time if you can access the injector clearly, then try giving the actual injector body a few "light" taps with a suitable tool / screw driver handle etc. This may "free" up the possibly seized internal injector solinoid / nozzel etc. Maybe worth a quick go - but don't smash the fuck out of it mate, just steady & repeated light taps. You will soon know if it's away - and if not then pull the injector out for further inspection.

Cheers.

well i unscrewed the the fuel rail, took the injector out and used some wires to touch it on the battery and i can hear it clicking (opening and closing i guess). then i plugged it back into the fuel rail, turned the bike on, pushed the starter button and there was this really bad short circuiting sound coming from the around the battery then the display turned off and nothing would work. ive checked all the fuses but it still doesnt want to turn on.

Hey there buddy, maybe it's past time to take this bike to a qualified & experienced Mechanic at a reputable bike repair shop.

You are only 18 so i can understand the enthusiasm, but you may very well be inducing many more serious problems through your lack of knowledge / experience. By this i refer to things such as using a "torch" as a noid light and "frying" it up. ( Must say that i cringed pretty hard when i read that one, ).

Also it may well be that the injector doesn't operate on a full 12 volts, as with many EFI automotive systems the ECU will regulate the control voltage to things like the injectors to operate between only 5~7 volts. So by giving it the full battery voltage you may also "fry" the actual injector solinoid. ( Which is why the LED test light is needed to check for a pulse signal, as it will light up well regardless of a lower signal voltage - where as a normal 12v filament bulb type test light may not light up / operate properly when testing on low voltage systems ).

Don't take this the wrong way mate, but myself & others have been attempting to "guide" you through some "safe" & simple diagnosis steps.....but you seem to have gone on with your own "unorthodox" methods, which may well be creating bigger problems here.

It could well be that the problems now are still the same as from when the bike first stopped, but by using the wrong methods & equippment to test these complex EFI systems it is very possible to do things like spike & "fry" the ECU or other sensitive control units / sensors.

As a simple last ditch basic test, again maybe get a spray can of proper "aero start / start ya bastard" to see if it fires up & runs again as per the first time out on the track with the hairspray. As i had previously stated, if it was something like a blocked injector nozzel or "sticky" solinoid, then it may "free" up with an extended run on the aero start etc.


Anyway other than all of the above i'm proberly going to now "cut & run" on this for the moment.


Hope it all turns out well for you, and please keep us updated with any progress / outcomes.


Cheers.