true gains of ECU Timing Advance vs Fuel Programmer Only

Hello Guys.

Just purchased my 1st WRR and already bought a Q4 and Wiseco Fuel Programmer (new but cheap).

I have a lot of jetting experience so I can dial in the "offbrand" Wiseco I feel without too much trouble.  However I am thinking about returning it and buying a PC5 Programmer so I can gain the performance gains of advanced timing, etc (ECU programming), not available with a standard "electronic jet kit" type fuel only programmer.  Sooo, I would like to know what are the HP and Torque gains by also advancing the timing and performing a full "tune", vs adding fuel only.  ANYONE????

Many thanks!

Not much...

I went with the PC5 and some dyno runs with an open exhaust box and free flowing exhaust... picked up about 1.5 to maybe 2hp... and in the process managed to gut out what little low end the bike had and drop my fuel economy by 10%.

I think this all comes down to how you ride the bike. For some this extra HP maybe worth it for me it definitely was not.

You can throw a lot of money at this motor to make more HP but come the end of the day it just isn't worth the investment when considering that you can go out and pick up a used KTM for just about the some money you will throw at the motor (big bore and stroker kit).

Now on the plus side the WRR is my go to bike whenever some one comes up with an impromptu trail ride. I will generally take my WRR over my KTM or even my Beta before that because the thing is just so gosh darn reliable and it works for me.

If you like to tinker it might be worth it for you just to give you more stuff to play around with. However, as noted above, your realized performance advantage is probably next to nothing.