WR290R Big Bore installed update with Dyno info

me thinks the problem with kickstarting is that it is a lost art. If you started riding in the 60's or earlier you didn't ride unless you could kickstart a bike. The points made for interesting learning curves--of course that was resovled in the late 70's with electronic ignition. I've got four well used bikes in my garage two are kickstart only, the XR650R and a KTM 380EXC--with proper jetting both start on the first or second kick hot or cold. I recently sold an 89 XT350 that was kick only and I used it extensively. Guy that bought it came over and said he "knew how to kick start a bike". I watched him kick that puppy for 10 full minutes without success. I got on did two clearing kicks and it started on the third. You just cannot jump on and kick away on these bikes, well you can and you might get lucky, but most likely all you will do is get frustrated. All it requires is a well jetted bike and the understanding of what occurs during a kick start cycle.

Akasy wrote:

me thinks the problem with kickstarting is that it is a lost art.

Yeah? Well, anyone who could reliably start that old CZ of mine had to be into witchcraft or voodoo or something like that. What a nasty bitch that bike was. You could always tell the CZ guys - we were the ones frantically kicking our bikes over while everybody else roared off.

The CZ dealer lost a fortune working on those bikes trying to get them to run right. I was sooooooo glad to unload mine to a younger feller with more money than brains who was on the rebound from missing out on purchasing a Maico he was lusting after. His body is probably laying up in the hills somewhere, where he died of exhaustion and starvation, trying to get that bike started again.

Went back to Yamaha and, except for a brief fling with Can-Am bikes, never looked at another exotic bike again... Now that I think back, I can't even remember what the big attraction of the CZ was in the first place.

Those euro bikes were the standard before the mid 70's, Japanese stuff was "jap scrap"
Until they took over the MX world and got distributorships working they were not that big a deal and there were quite a few euro manufacturers
Heck in the late 60's there was still a stigma left over from WW2, war vet's were still in their 40's and hated anything Japanese
Sure a different world now

How is the big bore doing? reliability wise?
Are you still happy with it?

So, what's the scoop on an update?

Curious as to how it is doing and how the gas mileage has changed, if at all.

Also, in regards to the Honda XR650R:

Jetted right, even with the stock carb, it will kick over in one or two kicks and start, hot, cold or flooded.
I had a 2001 XR650R (had to sell because of great economy) and it was my first self owned dirt bike.

Most can start it with some practice in one or two kicks with it hot or cold. Problem comes when you dump it and it floods out. That's where most of the cussing comes in, ha ha!

Here's the trick (see Borynack's site) on starting a flooded or not-so-flooded dumped XR650R:

Pick it up. Find TDC. Squeeze the clutch lever. Hold the throttle WO and grab the front brake. Grabbing the front brake once you have the throttle wide open locks your hand to the bar and prevents you from twisting the throttle closed when you kick the bike. Use the compression release if you want. I personally never used it, the XR isn't that hard to kick over.

Give it a good, strong long kick. Get your weight into it if you need to.

Dump the clutch and take off dirt flying!

Problem with a dumped XR is that usually the bike is flooded or close to it. This means lots of fuel. TO burn that and get it to fire you need:

Lotsa O2, lotsa air!

WOT gives the bike lotsa air!

Plus if it tries to back fire out the air box (where fuel may have seeped) kick starting with WOT fires and sucks the flame back down into the carb and not out the airbox where it could set your possibly gas soaked filter on fire.

I dumped my 650 more than once and once I learned and used this technique it was always a one or at the most two kick event and I would roar off. My older bro would come sliding up on his old XR600 or pumped XR400 or CR250 and ask if I needed help. He'd been riding dirt bikes for years. I'd smile, say I'm OK and fire the bike right up, no sweat! This from a dirt newb. Learn the drill and the XR650R is a piece of cake. I live in AZ and I would do this when the thermometer read 110, so it works.

Tell your friends with the XR650R about this. Read about it here:

http://borynack.com/XR650R/Cycle/starting.htm

Now you guys got me thinking about a WR250R for my next bike.

OK Guys I need some info. I have a 08 WR that I just had a 290 big bore kit installed from my local mechanic. I'm not mechanical enough to have done it myself. When I picked it late today I only had time to take it for a short 25 mile ride. My observations were that it seems to have a hesitation in the throtle response. On the low end it has lots more power, but on the top end it doesn't seem to be much difference. Also, there is a lot of heat coming from the powerbomb and Q4 pipe that I haven't noticed prior to the install. I have done all of the mods prior to the big bore and was wondering do I need to now install the power commander in order to get it dialed in properly. Has anyone done the big bore without using a power commander? Also I'm getting some backfire from the exhaust. Does that mean it's running lean or rich? I am leaving next week to go out to CO to ride for the week, and now I'm concerned that I may have jumped the gun about the big bore, because the bike was running great before I did it now I'm worried that I might get out there and run into some trouble. The dealer told me to ride it over the weekend and bring it back in on Tuesday to make and adjustments. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Do you have any kind of electronic device installed to remap the fuel injection (like a Power Commander, for example)?
Did your big bore kit come with one?

If you aren't using one with your big bore kit, you probably need one.

The Athena kit comes with a non adjustable plug in EFI module
I had heard that is is not perfect and has a hesitation, the CO mode adjustment could help, i would ground the wire permanently and adjust is as you see fit
Someone should have a PC map for this so you can remove the Athena one

0007onWR wrote:

Someone should have a PC map for this so you can remove the Athena one

There is a PC5 map for the 290 kit available for download on the Dynojet web site. I believe it is tuned for a FMF pipe and an opened up airbox. Good place to start if you have a PC5.

I can't be sure, but I believe that the FI controller that comes with the Athena kit is for a WR with no other mods. Since it is a static device, you can't fine tune it for your specific mods.

I'd spring for the PC5 and, ideally, the Autotune module as well. I have this setup on my 290 fitted WRX and it is working well. There is still some popping on decel and still a little hesitation off-idle occasionally, but I am gradually getting it dialed in with the Autotune.

BuilderBob wrote:

0007onWR wrote:

Someone should have a PC map for this so you can remove the Athena one

There is a PC5 map for the 290 kit available for download on the Dynojet web site. I believe it is tuned for a FMF pipe and an opened up airbox. Good place to start if you have a PC5.

I can't be sure, but I believe that the FI controller that comes with the Athena kit is for a WR with no other mods. Since it is a static device, you can't fine tune it for your specific mods.

I'd spring for the PC5 and, ideally, the Autotune module as well. I have this setup on my 290 fitted WRX and it is working well. There is still some popping on decel and still a little hesitation off-idle occasionally, but I am gradually getting it dialed in with the Autotune.

Thanks BuilerBob, I was at the dealership first thing this morning. I've got to load the bike to take out to CO wednesday. He assured me that he could order the pc5 and autotune and have it ready by then. I sure hope this works otherwise I'll be going with my backup plan my TE610. I was so hoping to take the WR. I wish now that I had just waited until I got back to do the big bore.

I post a update when I get it on Wednesday.

Thanks

OK, got my bike back yesterday from the shop. I now have a new 290 big bore installed with a FMF power programmer, I've owned the bike just about a year now and have done about all the mods I know to do.

AIS removal
Flapper removal
EXUP removal
Air Box Mod
FMF Q4 exhaust
Powerbomb
290 Big Bore
FMF power programmer
MT43 rear tire
Stock gearing 13/43
IMS 4.75 gal tank
Heated grips
Auxiliary plug for GPS
Did I forget anything ?

Anyway I've been preparing this bike for my upcoming trip to CO next week. I went out to CO last year, but was on my WeeSrom and knew this was the bike I wanted to take back out this year.

After riding the bike with the new Big Bore one of the first things I noticed was the powerbomb seems to be a lot hotter than it was previously. Is this normal? Also I have so much more lower to mid range power than I had before. Still seems to not have as much power on the top end that I'd hoped for, but it is just a 290 cc bike. FMF sent me the settings for the 290 with FMF pipe mods as follows, 5,4,4,0.5,3,4. I rode 100 miles last night breaking in the engine and really like everything except the top end. If anyone has a FMF programmer and has any suggestions, i'm all ears.

I'll be in the San Juan Mtns. all next week, so wish me luck. I can't wait

was the FMF power programmer reflashed? I had a bad hesitation after the big bore was installed and I could not fix it with the std FMF programmer, I had to send it back to Doebeck (the actual manufacturer) and they reprogramed it for the big bore for free. I run it on the base setting now and have no issues.

I ended up wrapping my FMF powerbomb with exhaust wrap after the big bore was installed.

mattf wrote:

was the FMF power programmer reflashed? I had a bad hesitation after the big bore was installed and I could not fix it with the std FMF programmer, I had to send it back to Doebeck (the actual manufacturer) and they reprogramed it for the big bore for free. I run it on the base setting now and have no issues.

I ended up wrapping my FMF powerbomb with exhaust wrap after the big bore was installed.

Thanks, I'll probably end up wrapping it also.

So, ah,

Has anybody got any input on reliability long term?

I love my WR but it is down on power.

the get on and ride is one thing I like about my bike.

Only have to do rutine maintanence which is fine.

Never worry about my 2fiddy.

I am 220, and yes I am still going down but really I will probably stop at 200.

So more power more better.

All the usual mods,

Air box

FMF Q4

PC-V

13-48 sprockets

modified tail light

skid plate

My Athena BB kit is still running fine. I have the PC5, and full FMF exhaust. Although I'm geared at 13/50. I recently switched to a Moose Racing filter and maxima fft filter oil.

mine was installed at 4500 miles and I just turned over 10000 yesterday. It is still as strong as it ever was, no issues whats so ever once I got my FMF programmer reflashed.

Anyone running the Athena BB kit on an otherwise stock X or R? Does it still make a decent difference?

Hi,
I've been running the Athena big bore it with the GET add on fuel programmer completely stog other than removal of the ais. I have about 3K on it. No vibrations, runs smoother than a single has a right to. I think it has better low end torque. 13 48 sprockets, Pirelli Scorpion Pros, 120 90 rear. Makes second the tight woods and hill gear, speedo is off about 10 mph at indicated 50 compared to the GPS.

Jim

miniceptor86 wrote:

Hi,
I've been running the Athena big bore it with the GET add on fuel programmer completely stog other than removal of the ais. I have about 3K on it. No vibrations, runs smoother than a single has a right to. I think it has better low end torque. 13 48 sprockets, Pirelli Scorpion Pros, 120 90 rear. Makes second the tight woods and hill gear, speedo is off about 10 mph at indicated 50 compared to the GPS.

Jim

Is the GET programmer the one Athena ships with the kit? Thanks for the info BTW!

Hi,

Yes, the GET add on is the one with the Yamaha kit.

Jim

Hey all,

As much as I would rather be in the dirt, my bike has spent at least 70+% doing highway over the years as I commute back and forth Chicago to SW Michigan. Roughly 2 hours/120mi. All my mods are farkles and handling, all stock motor. Most of the time I have no problem with vibration or even power running speed limits, anywhere from 55-75mph. But any of you who know the area, it's a wind tunnel. Between headwinds, tailwinds, side-winds, the 'WTF did that come from cyclone', and some steeper grades for good measure, there are days I have to tuck and draft greyhounds and semi's...

I've seen a couple of brief mentions, but no real detail about the Athena on the road. I've read about the greater power and feel (short of the tuning issues from some) but hows the top end? Especially if any of you have had the kit on for a while... I'm not looking to go to Daytona, but it would be great to know that I can still pass a semi in headwind.

So any thoughts about the high speed, highway performance benefits from the kit?

I've been debating a stronger bike but between cash and the proliferation of Dual sports on the market, I'm hoping the Athena would do the trick. I'd really prefer to keep this baby dualing and dueling on the road, but maybe I need to pull the r80 out of mothballs?

silentwolf wrote:

I've seen a couple of brief mentions, but no real detail about the Athena on the road. I've read about the greater power and feel (short of the tuning issues from some) but hows the top end? Especially if any of you have had the kit on for a while... I'm not looking to go to Daytona, but it would be great to know that I can still pass a semi in headwind.

So any thoughts about the high speed, highway performance benefits from the kit?

You'll notice a lot more pull between 55 & 75, but not much above that. At 75mph, you're pretty much at the top of the power band and things fall off pretty quickly after that. The power band of the Athena equipped WR pretty much follows that of the stock bike. Where the stocker has power, the 290 has more, but when the curve drops, it drops for both.

BuilderBob wrote:

You'll notice a lot more pull between 55 & 75, but not much above that. At 75mph, you're pretty much at the top of the power band and things fall off pretty quickly after that. The power band of the Athena equipped WR pretty much follows that of the stock bike. Where the stocker has power, the 290 has more, but when the curve drops, it drops for both.

That makes sense. If the dyno charts I've seen on the Athena are accurate, the extra hit between 8K and 10K is really what I'm looking for. To keep things going in a heavy headwind, I usually have to drop into 5th just to keep momentum. 6th is a useless overdrive gear with the stock powerband when you need any real power. (good on gas though )


Bob, I glanced at your blog. What's the 300 kit that you were looking at?

silentwolf wrote:

Bob, I glanced at your blog. What's the 300 kit that you were looking at?

It's actually a 310 kit being developed by Thumper Racing. They were soliciting for a stock WR250 cylinder to do some R&D a few months ago and I gave them mine since I had just installed the 290. The 310 kit is supposed to be available this month and I have been promised the first one.

BuilderBob wrote:

silentwolf wrote:

Bob, I glanced at your blog. What's the 300 kit that you were looking at?

It's actually a 310 kit being developed by Thumper Racing. They were soliciting for a stock WR250 cylinder to do some R&D a few months ago and I gave them mine since I had just installed the 290. The 310 kit is supposed to be available this month and I have been promised the first one.

Nice.

I can't wait to hear about it. In the back of my head I always thought the 290 is what the WRR should have been stock. To see how it behaves with some little extra is worth the look. I'm looking at wr400/426/450s for competition purposes, but a 310 could keeps things interesting for the ittle bike that wants to...