Religion - which one is "the best"?

Near the end of his life, Darwin became a Christian.

SheWolf wrote:

Maybe some ppl like to be whipped and beaten. Actually I know a few like that. *shudders* No thanks.

Ummmm........... Shhhhhhhh!
Ixnay on the Ippingway wuffie!! is nothing secret?
By the way, you say you know "A few" LOL, tsk tsk

Thanks Ed. After the last couple of days, that was a much needed chuckle.

aaronhall555 wrote:

No religion works for me; "When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad"; I live by "treat others as you want to be treated", and I'm a intelligent, active, successful, compassionate and happy person. I'll also throw this out there, I'm an atheist :) ...happily!

+1

Couldn't put it better

stumo wrote:

The reason people use crucifixes against vampires is because vampires are allergic to Bullshit.
- Richard Prior 1971

That's pretty funny.

A guy who spent most of his military career in military prison for, among other things nearly murdering another soldier while part of the gang who attacked him. A guy who was married about six times, and cheated on every one of his wives - and who most of his children were born to girlfriends while he was still married. A guy whose marriages were characterized by episodes of wife beating. And of course, a guy who set himself alight while freebasing cocaine.

Now there's a life of bullshit. Maybe a little hit of religion instead of drugs and violence would have helped - obviously, he couldn't have done much worse.

Amusing where we find our sages at times. Just the kind of guy I look to for guidance and inspiration in my life!

Sometimes comedy needs to be taken at face value, it is pretty funny
Sam kinneson was in the clergy as far as I know and he wasn't very funny till moved away from it, he had first hand experience and still could not be part of organized religion

I believe religion does not make a person better, the sexual abuse at the hands of people who are in a position of influence in churches all over the globe seems to support the claim that god will not make a monster into a human, unfortunately it seems to give them the ability to be forgiven, I think it makes it worse

Good people are good people, religion or not
BTW i'm not saying either of these comedians are good guys, but I would not let a priest baysit my son either

0007onWR wrote:

Sometimes comedy needs to be taken at face value, it is pretty funny

I didn't find it funny. But I didn't find it offensive either.

What was amusing was a man calling a lifestyle based on values "BS" when he led a life that apparently had little regard for the values most of us would respect, religious or not. Given the dismal failure of his personal life and his propensity to inflict pain and suffering on others, he is about the last person who should be commenting on the values and beliefs of other people.

On the other hand, for what it is worth, Pryor also said:
"Yes, I'm religious. God has shown me things, made certain ways clear to me... I realized this is what God has dealt me, and I should be thankful considering all that's happened to me in my life, but MS caused the movies to stop - stop dead - and I miss it."

Quote :

Sam kinneson was in the clergy as far as I know and he wasn't very funny till moved away from it, he had first hand experience and still could not be part of organized religion

Well, I didn't find him very funny either.

When your comedy is a screaming rant or is based on heavy use of racial and sexual slurs, I don't find that all that funny. If screaming rants and swearing is the key to humour, I know of more than a few people in the military who could show ingenuity in both fields that neither Kinneson nor Pryor could match. Except they didn't think they were comedians.

However, comedy - like abstract art - is a matter of individual taste. I wouldn't cross the street to see Pryor, Kinneson, Seinfeld, etc. But I would have paid a pretty good buck to see Red Skelton, Harvey Korman, Tim Conway, etc. They were skilled enough to make audiences laugh without attacking anybody, resorting to obscenity, and screaming. Personal taste, I guess.

Quote :

I believe religion does not make a person better, the sexual abuse at the hands of people who are in a position of influence in churches all over the globe seems to support the claim that god will not make a monster into a human, unfortunately it seems to give them the ability to be forgiven, I think it makes it worse

Which would be the same school of thought that points out how terrible it is to allow firearms in our society - one merely has to look at all the evil done with them.

The reality is that the vast majority of firearms owners are good, not evil, and firearms do far more for the good of people than the evil that is done with firearms.

Clergy are no different. Everyone wants to attack the church over the sexual abuse by some clergy. And those individual actions - and where they are covered up - rightly deserve to be condemned and harsh measures taken against the guilty parties. Which would be no different than what I would advocate for those who use firearms for evil purposes.

But while people are attacking the clergy and firearms owners, they choose to skip over the fact that the vast majority of the clergy do not commit evil and do an enormous amount of good, just as the vast majority of firearms owners pose no threat to anybody.

And while religion cannot force a person to be better, I do believe it inspires many people to live a better life than they might have. Not just because they simply choose to live like that, but because they also believe they have a duty to live a better life, to some extent or other.

I do notice that over in the shytholes that we get sent to all the time, the vast majority of NGOs we run into are funded, run, or worked by religious people. The cynics will argue those religious people are just trying to trick people into converting. Of course, the cynics are generally also the people that will never go to those places themselves. I'm not sure how you are going to convert somebody you see for about ten seconds as they hold out their bowl for their cup of mash, particularly when you don't speak their language, but I would be interested in having that explained to me.

Quote :

BTW i'm not saying either of these comedians are good guys, but I would not let a priest baysit my son either

Most kids are molested by someone they know - and in very few of the cases is the assailant a clergyman. For molesting your kids, statistical data tells us the most probable culprit is a member of your family.

So perhaps the question is who WOULD you let babysit your son?

Jäger wrote:

stumo wrote:

The reason people use crucifixes against vampires is because vampires are allergic to Bullshit.
- Richard Prior 1971

That's pretty funny.

A guy who spent most of his military career in military prison for, among other things nearly murdering another soldier while part of the gang who attacked him. A guy who was married about six times, and cheated on every one of his wives - and who most of his children were born to girlfriends while he was still married. A guy whose marriages were characterized by episodes of wife beating. And of course, a guy who set himself alight while freebasing cocaine.

Now there's a life of bullshit. Maybe a little hit of religion instead of drugs and violence would have helped - obviously, he couldn't have done much worse.

Amusing where we find our sages at times. Just the kind of guy I look to for guidance and inspiration in my life!

yawn.

i bet you're a barrel of laughs.

I couldn't give a flying f##k about his life, the comment was funny.

stumo wrote:

yawn.

i bet you're a barrel of laughs.

I couldn't give a flying f##k about his life, the comment was funny.

Yawn.

I bet you're a really deep thinker.

I thought it was stupid - particularly from someone with his life history. That, and his other quoted comment about believing on God would have probably been more relevant to the discussion - which was about religion, not about comedians. Of course, if you were using the quote to infer that religion is BS, then his quote is relevant. But then it is equally fair game to point out his dismal personal values and life, and that he also said he believed in God and was thankful to him, which certainly reduces the "BS" comment to being pretty much meaningless.

Ever heard of a "jack-mormon"? Well, I guess in a similar context I'm a "jack-catholic"

Raised that way, went straight agnostic for about 20, came back to it mainly in respect to some people I cared about who had passed.

I never liked the organization, their history, etc.

Meh. I guess I really don't have much of an opinion on it.


Larry


edit: Side note, maybe interesting: I moved out to a secluded rural location a couple of years ago. Some neighbors who live about a quarter mile from me decided that I "must" be converted from "jack-Catholicism" to Christianity.

At one social gathering, I heard them and their friends loudly referring to Catholics as "heathens" - whereas Catholics tend to think of themselves as Christians. In my semi-agnostic way, I'm glad for the clarification and also I'm glad to know that they specifically exclude me from their chosen religion - and for all the usual reasons as well.

Their determination was intense. It took a couple of years to diplomatically get them off my back. I may live here a long time or I'd not have been so polite about it.

I guess there is really nothing deep or unexpected in any of that.

motokid wrote:

These kinds of threads, much like horrible car accidents, are the kind where you don't want to look - but you just can't help yourself.

Too true! This post gets lengthy now. It's useless and entirely inflammatory so feel free to skip it.

With a sales pitch like that...



A couple questions for readers or participants:

When you're reading the internet, how do you decide on a contributor's credibility on any particular topic - especially those being potentially important?

A few examples:

If English is obviously their first language... yet they make repeated simple spelling and grammar blunders even with a spell-checker at their fingertips, does literacy affect your opinion of THEIR opinions? (I'm not speaking of sentence fragments; pretty much everyone does that for expediency and it seems to have become an accepted colloquialism of the internet)

As another example, if they find obviously circular logic to be terribly compelling plus they're peeved and can't see why you don't find it to be convincing - does this affect your opinion of their opinion?

How about if they type in all caps? Or they repeatedly eff up word doubles?

I find that I automatically suspend such evaluations for people whose primary language is other than English. In those cases, it's to the contrary of the above. That is: They obviously speak English better than I speak their language! (online translators or not)


Wannabe Proof-readers: My sentence structure and grammar are obviously imperfect so I'm not pretending to be some literary genius. I'm speaking of repeated glaring errors you'd expect a grade-schooler to weed out. Far from genius but not a dumbass... and I don't dislike people who failed in their educations. Yet I do instantly judge their credibility if they demonstrate obviously sub-par literacy. It seems to be a quick and usually accurate way to weed through the massive quantities of disinformation on the net.

To the point: If someone is trying to sell me his or her religion, then they are in fact saying that they are smarter or better educated than I am. Whereas: As for me, if a person was unable or was disinterested in learning how to communicate effectively in their primary language, why on earth would I accept their sales pitch about religion? At that point, all indications are that they are not superior in knowledge and that I should consider their opinions very carefully before considering acceptance.

And YES this is pointedly directed towards someone. No, it is not aimed at anyone here.

This web post in its entirety is dedicated to my neighbors. Mr. & Mrs. Knowseverything


L

My favorite indicator of a sub-par intellect is the long web post... like the last one above^^^

About religion for me: My religion is not a religion. It's not about a god or any form of intangible being(s). It's about me being fair and true to myself, my family, my friends, and others. I recognize that sometimes I stray from this, but I work towards not to. Or at least thats the idea. I also like ideas better than beliefs cause ideas can change and evolve with you rather than be set.

BigFeet wrote:

My favorite indicator of a sub-par intellect is the long web post... like the last one above^^^

I'm assuming that is all intended to be in good fun. Kinda looks like it...

If it isn't, please engage our Swedish friend in debate with the discussion being held in his native language. We went around in circles a few time about some concepts, and I find him to be a pretty smart cookie who does a good job of presenting his case (however wrong, eh, Rokka?) in a foreign language.

Rokka, all caps just pisses me off. You could devote a whole thread to why all caps, from day one of the Internet, seems to just annoy the hell out of people.

Spelling errors by the bushel make me wonder how you could have even a basic education and make that many spelling errors - but I still look at the rational of their argument.

For me, it's all about the rationality of their position. Unsupported positions, inconsistency, and hypocrisy just seem to bring my fangs out and call for blood.

Sidebar... Can I talk like that still without being accused of influencing somebody to commit mass murder?

BTW Biggy, I AM a Jack Mormon... I don't get the bums rush from the (many) local Mormons nor the "we're here to save you". What I do get is, for the most part, pretty nice neighbors.

I'm sure, somewhere, there is a Mormon who would hit on me about my religious status that would just piss me off. All religions have them. For the most part, I work pretty hard at not judging groups on the actions of a minority.

Medski & Jäger,

"Amen to that!" on all counts.

Feetsus Maximus

Jäger wrote:

Rokka, all caps just pisses me off. You could devote a whole thread to why all caps, from day one of the Internet, seems to just annoy the hell out of people.

Spelling errors by the bushel make me wonder how you could have even a basic education and make that many spelling errors - but I still look at the rational of their argument.

ALL CAPS IS VERY ANNOYING.

but i really hate no caps especially with no punctuation thats the worst

Spelling errots are oftem just typing eroors.

That was painful!

Time to wade in:


Seems to me that most wars have started due to religion - just look at the 'Holy Land'.......

I find it weird that so many people go worship a fictional figure with a white beard & a 2000 year old carpenter from the Middle East. If there is a God, why does 'he' let stuff happen like war?? I prefer to go motorcycling on Sunday mornings: its way more exciting & I have yet to be struck by lightning!!

mash100 wrote:

Time to wade in:


Seems to me that most wars have started due to religion - just look at the 'Holy Land'.......

Gulf 2. Nope.

Current Afghanistan. Nope

Yugoslavia. Nope.

Gulf 1. Nope.

Iran-Iraq war. Nope.

Assorted Central American wars. Nope.

Vietnam. Nope.

Korea. Nope.

WWII. Nope.

WWI. Nope.

Sino-Japanese wars (all of them). Nope.

Boer War. Nope.

Spanish-American War. Nope.

Napoleonic Wars. Nope.

Anglo-Afghan Wars. Nope.

As for the Middle East, most of them have a lot more to do with who gets to control the turf and racial enmity than they have to do with religion. Syrians and Egyptians were not yelling "Allah Akhbar" and acting like a bunch of hajjis when they attacked Israel.

Of course, we could try the same logic in reverse after looking into our prisons. Being as the vast majority of our violent offenders and sex offenders are not religious and don't go to church, perhaps we should argue that violent crime is a consequence of a lack of religious belief.

Correlation does not equal causation, and in this particular setting, correlation is pretty weak to begin with.

Quote :

I find it weird that so many people go worship a fictional figure with a white beard & a 2000 year old carpenter from the Middle East.

Others find it weird you can't even pull off the comparatively ridiculously easy odds of winning the Powerball lottery, but yet you believe life and diversity on this planet is simply a matter of chance instead of intelligent design? That's the crux of the discussion.

Many of you have determined how you are going to live your life here on Earth, but what about after that? Because of Adams sin, we will all die. Jesus came to make a way back to God for all eternity. Repent of your sins, and believe that Jesus died in your place for your sins, and you can live with God for eternity.

Captain Midnight wrote:

Many of you have determined how you are going to live your life here on Earth, but what about after that? Because of Adams sin, we will all die. Jesus came to make a way back to God for all eternity. Repent of your sins, and believe the Jesus died in your place for your sins, and you can live with God for eternity.

I really think that religious beliefs are a personnal matter. We can be the witnesses of our faiths but not impose it on others.

Dancamp wrote:

Captain Midnight wrote:

Many of you have determined how you are going to live your life here on Earth, but what about after that? Because of Adams sin, we will all die. Jesus came to make a way back to God for all eternity. Repent of your sins, and believe the Jesus died in your place for your sins, and you can live with God for eternity.

I really think that religious beliefs are a personnal matter. We can be the witnesses of our faiths but not impose it on others.

Jesus asked us to love one another. We are told we should be concerned for the well being of others. Some people are not aware of the love that God has for them. I am so happy that God loves me, I would like to tell someone.
Matthew 5:15 Neither do men light a lamp, and put it under the bushel, but on the stand; and it shineth unto all that are in the house.

Quote :

He who knows, does not speak. He who speaks, does not know.

Lao Tzu

Quote :

I do not concern myself with gods and spirits either good or evil nor do I serve any.

Lao Tzu

Quote :

Man's enemies are not demons, but human beings like himself.

Lao Tzu

Quote :

One who is too insistent on his own views, finds few to agree with him.

Lao Tzu

You have the wrong god, Lao Tzu is dead. Jesus is alive. Follow the living God. Have everlasting life.